Instruments opening up, only for you who believe in it ;)

Hello, I wonder if this goes for a maple ukulele too?
I.e. will it open up or will anything happen at all to it. I have a Brüko made of maple that
I bought last year.
Is there any difference in how a mahogany or a koa ukulele will open up?
Is there any clear difference in what way ukuleles of different marerials (koa, mahogany or maple for instance) will sound once they have opened up?
Is there any certain way into which the tone will develop?

Please when answering, take into account an instrument made with a top of the aforementioned sort of wood.

http://forum.ukuleleunderground.com...truments-Opening-Up&highlight=tone+developing

Best regards

I don't know about specifics, but I believe it happens over time with solid wood. The problem is that it's impossible to judge, because there's too much variation in wood boards and perhaps in construction techniques to compare old vs new. For example, I have a Taylor 615 (spruce and maple) that was built in 1983, and it I know it sounds very different than a new one built in the past year, but how much of that is due to ageing, I can't begin to say.

I know about a device that can be attached to the strings, but I have serious doubts about it, partly because some of the claims and statements on the website don't make sense, and partly because it's unknown how much confirmation bias is in the mix.

Of course, confirmation bias may explain why some folks, like me, believe instruments open up over time.

Henning said:

Hello, I wonder if this goes for a maple ukulele too?
I.e. will it open up or will anything happen at all to it. I have a Brüko made of maple that
I bought last year.
Is there any difference in how a mahogany or a koa ukulele will open up?
Is there any clear difference in what way ukuleles of different marerials (koa, mahogany or maple for instance) will sound once they have opened up?
Is there any certain way into which the tone will develop?

Please when answering, take into account an instrument made with a top of the aforementioned sort of wood.

http://forum.ukuleleunderground.com...truments-Opening-Up&highlight=tone+developing

Best regards

Click to expand...

Hi Henning,

Maybe we could have your thoughts on this topic? Your question is very broad.

I've experienced an uke open up, on new ukes of various woods. It can take days or weeks depending on the build, for the same wood. Opening up won't compensate for over-built.

Doc_J said:

Opening up won't compensate for over-built.

Click to expand...

Agreed. It also won't change the overall personality of an instrument. If you don't like the way it sounds when it's new, you probably won't like it down the road, either.

It's a topic that guitarists have been arguing over for decades. Perhaps someone has made tests with artificial aging processes? I recall reading opinions from luthiers who said that if an instrument opens up (= changes the tone, not necessarily for the better), it happens early on, in the first few weeks or months, not years. It'd also make sense to me that it changes its tone as the wood dries out, over the course of decades. That may improve or decrease the tone.

But this probably needs some scientific tests. Human perception of subtle changes isn't particularly well-developed. I think it was Michael Shermer who once wrote in his book "Why People Believe Weird Things" that humans are story-telling animals who see patterns everywhere, even if there are none.

But I really don't know. If it happens, it would also seem likely to me that different woods are differently affected by age and the moon cycle.

Mivo said:

It's a topic that guitarists have been arguing over for decades. Perhaps someone has made tests with artificial aging processes? I recall reading opinions from luthiers who said that if an instrument opens up (= changes the tone, not necessarily for the better), it happens early on, in the first few weeks or months, not years. It'd also make sense to me that it changes its tone as the wood dries out, over the course of decades. That may improve or decrease the tone.

But this probably needs some scientific tests. Human perception of subtle changes isn't particularly well-developed. I think it was Michael Shermer who once wrote in his book "Why People Believe Weird Things" that humans are story-telling animals who see patterns everywhere, even if there are none.

But I really don't know. If it happens, it would also seem likely to me that different woods are differently affected by age and the moon cycle.

Click to expand...

It makes sense that "Opening up" or whatever you want to call it will happen early on. Given the materials that a ukulele (or guitar) is made from and the processes used to shape and assemble it, there are bound to be residual stresses in a completely new instrument. Stringing it and tuning it will add other stresses and over time these stresses will relax and the instrument will "settle down". But whether the wood "opens up" over a long period, I don't know and I think the jury is still out on that one and I think it's unlikely ever to be proven.

Some of the so-called "opening up" may have more to do with the owner becoming familiar with their instrument and coming to know its character and its foibles. I have three Bruko ukuleles in different sizes, made from different woods and all in different tunings and while they are all different, they all share a family likeness in their tone. That I am sure is mostly to do with the maker. Brukos are generally known for their bright tone, a quality I like in them.

The current trend for using Torrefied Spruce, baked and aged, is related to this aging/opening up discussion. Looks real enough for Stew Mac to sell Torrefied spruce.

http://www.stewmac.com/Materials_and_Supplies/Bodies_and_Necks_and_Wood/Acoustic_Guitar_Wood/Acoustic_Guitar_Soundboards_and_Tops/Torrefied_Sitka_Spruce_Soundboard_for_Dreadnought_Guitar.html

My KoAloha Opio tenor with Sapele solid wood has been amazing in how it opened up. When Uke arrived some notes were "thud" but with playing and more playing this Uke has really come alive. I believe it has opened up. seven month of playing and this is a completely different instrument than the day I got it. I do believe different wood opens up differenltly.
YMMV

Some people believe it resolutely. Others believe it to be myth; that it is actually people just getting to know their instruments better.

Here is a link to download a PDF of an article describing research done by Stanford students (it appears) where they compared three sets of paired instruments (each pair being identical) where one was vibrated and other was not. Blind subjective tests with experienced players comparing the pairs failed to reliably distinguish the treated instrument vs. the control. I'm not suggesting this ends the debate. I'm just sharing as interesting research project.

savartjournal.org/index.php/sj/article/download/22/pdf

As interesting as I find this experiment, plenty of experienced luthiers and players swear there is a difference.

I have notice a richer sound over time in my three well made solid wood ukuleles - sapele Opio, maple Bruko, mahogany Silvertone. But I also am more aware of out of tune ukuleles than before, too. I can now detect what my tuner is telling me before I look at the tuner.

So... I think that I am developing an ear, along with the ukuleles changing to the environment of my surroundings.

But, going along with that, I have noticed is that any of my solid ukuleles that have been cased untouched for at least a week sound dull when I first go to play it. Not bad, not dead, just... dull.

But, an hour or so of playing it, putting it away, then playing it the next day gets rid of that dull tone.

So is it that my ears have become unused to the sound, and then get used to it? Is it that my fingers took a bit for muscle memory to remember how to coax the best sound?

All I know is that any time I play a ukulele, look at it and go "hmmm..." it is usually one that for whatever reason has not been out of the case for a while.

So, since these three ukuleles rarely leave the house, I think that what I have attributed to opening up is the wood balancing with the temperature and humidity. The 70+ year old Silvertone seems to bear this out. Any opening up would have already happened. In fact, the pill box humidifiers in the case are a big factor in making it sound better than when I first got it secondhand as it was extremely dry.

Doc_J said:

Opening up won't compensate for over-built.

Click to expand...

My Bruce Wei Arts custom solid flame maple top, solid acacia koa body never had the sustain or projection I was hoping for. Apparently, as was told to me by Pepe Romero when he did at presentation at U-Space recently, that flame maple is too stiff to be a top wood for a uke. It did open up in about a year to be smoother then at first, but still does not have the sustain or projection.

Bruce also built me a custom mandolele, all solid acacia koa and it did have the sustain and projection I like right from the start.

my thoughts

Doc_J said:

Hi Henning,

Maybe we could have your thoughts on this topic? Your question is very broad.

Hi Doc and all you other guys too

Yes, the topic is broad. So are the opinions too. It seems as though, for those who believe, a well made instrument with a solid top will open up if played.
Why?
The vibrations makes the parts mate tighter? (!?)
The wood dries(?).

Assumably, an instrument like a guitar with rosewood bottom is more likely to take longer time to open up due to the facts that rosewood is a harder material(?)
Who knows?

I have a solid top steel string Landola guitar that I bought new. I played it, I played it and I kept playing it. After five years in the summer during one week I realized what I remember as a dramtic improvement. It was like that I didn´t want to stop playing it. :drool:

Some persons as well as in the instrument making process would say that it is just a myth though.
Still I´ve read somewhere that vintage instruments kept at conservatories and museums, the staff got to take them home to play them to not loose the tone.
An important factor might be that you get used to how an instrument sound.
So, what might happen to my little maple Brüko nr 4?

Click to expand...

kohanmike said:

My Bruce Wei Arts custom solid flame maple top, solid acacia koa body never had the sustain or projection I was hoping for. Apparently, as was told to me by Pepe Romero when he did at presentation at U-Space recently, that flame maple is too stiff to be a top wood for a uke. It did open up in about a year to be smoother then at first, but still does not have the sustain or projection.

Bruce also built me a custom mandolele, all solid acacia koa and it did have the sustain and projection I like right from the start.

Click to expand...

The flame maple will look outstanding. But it won´t be an outstanding tone material for a top(?). I suppose the same goes for any maple, even though it isn´t as beautiful as the flame maple.

Doc J has an all maple tenor that sounds sweet and warm and amazing so.........

Because wood is wood, meaning one board is different from another it is hard to make generalities. Chuck Moore of Moore Bettha ukuleles has said he feels if anything does happen it is usually in the first month. He said play it long, loud and hard for the first month so I do with every new uke I buy.

I had a uke built by custom guitar builder David Webber and I commented on how nice and lively it sounded. It is spruce top with cocobolo back and sides. He said the first string change will be interesting and just wait a years time and it will really improve. He has been building for 25 years and make about 1000 guitars a year so he has a lot of experience

So who really knows??? I have experienced it with an all mahogany Loprinzi, an all sycamore Mya Moe and I am hearing it with my spruce/rosewood LfdM which I got in August 2015

I do think solid wood instruments have the ability to open up with time. More so guitars than ukuleles, though, as it seems there is a lot more surface area and potential for the wood to adjust. I saw this happen with my mom's guitar, which is now over 20 years old and plays effortlessly.

I can't remember who said this (maybe Jean Larrivee), but I like the idea. The wood that goes into an instrument has only known how to be a tree, up to now. Now, it has to adjust to its new life of being bent and making music, and that can take some time to occur.

Perhaps that's why it's so crucial to build instruments in temperature and humidity controlled environments.

I definitely believe in opening up. My Martin C1K sounded pretty good, new, but after a couple years of being played a lot, it sounded amazing! Same with my Kanile'a, which I got used, but hadn't been played much in 2 years. I was not real impressed with it right away, but now, after almost 10 mos. of being played lots, it too sounds amazing. They are both Koa, don't have any experience with maple.

I won't disagree that a solid wood will open-up or maybe adjust to the bending pressures and string tensions over time. But one thing I have found is that environment plays a bigger role in how an instrument, especially a small size ukulele, will sound on any particular day.

For me, a ukulele will go through temperature/humidity phases where it can sound exceptional and at other times not quite as good. I've never really bothered to chart anything, but it seems that there are definite seasonal adjustments occurring that impact sound. I'm of the opinion that there are summer ukes and winter ukes based the preference, so to speak, of a particular instrument.

I know temperature does effect wood because years ago, when I played bass at our church, I found that I would get string buzz on an early cold morning when I first started to play. As the instrument acclimated to a warmer temperature the buzz would go away.

John

I had a LoPrinzi soprano for a couple of days before I returned it to the seller. It definitely went through some changes in sound over that time. I never thought it sounded bad, but the wood and the strings definitely went through an adjustment period.

I'm sure that an instrument changes over time, but I have not noticed anything dramatic with my own ukuleles. String changes and seasonal temperature/humidity changes are more noticeable to my ear. I would bet changes within the instrument are very subtle, one you would only notice if you had the same player, same strings, same song, same recording equipment, just two recordings years apart. Comparing two instruments, one old/vibrated and one new, I doubt that you would hear a much bigger difference in sound between those instruments than what was already there when they were both new.

A few things I have come to know about instruments.
1. Finishes take a long time to cure. If it is a lacquer finish it could be 6-months to a year before it is truly done and at its hardest. that can make a difference over time. then it ages and can take on other properties. Yellowing, cracking?
2. Wood changes over time as it dries and ages. I look at my Spruce top and it is no longer the light wood it once was and it has picked up a lot of sustain over time.
3. Glue can take time to cure, as it stiffens or ages it can vibrate better, or loosen up as it starts to form micro-micro fractures. as you play the uke more, just like wearing jeans or playing with the same baseball mit, it will change and loosen in the parts that move the most.
4. solid wood instruments can be different from season to season. Winter it is more dry (20%), with summer being stupid humid (90%) here in Illinois. and temps from -20 to 110 degrees. although you may humidify, and have a tempature controlled house, it will make a difference.

So "opening up" is not a myth, it is just complicated.

As someone who owned a ToneRite (and ran it non-stop on my instruments), I can say that opening up is a real thing. Even to my untrained ear, I could hear distinct differences in the before and after. I've got a few instruments sitting back at home in Hawaii, and look forward to them aging while I am away for school.