How long to persevere?

fisher00

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How much time / practice do you put into a song before saying enough is enough? I've got a folder full of songs that I've invested varying levels of time and effort to learn to try to become proficient. Trouble is, I've learnt that I'm not a good learner. I invest what I think is a high level of time and effort in each song, but eventually become bored with what seems to be little advancement. Of course I am moderately better at each tune than when I first started, but each tune is still riddled with errors. I've tried playing nothing but one tune for a fortnight (morning and night practice), and I've tried practicing 2-3 different tunes to break the monotony. What tends to happen is that after a heap of practice with little advancement, I start to look for a new tune to learn. As a result I've got plenty of tunes that are half baked. So....how long should you persevere with a tune to get it right before admitting defeat and looking for something else?
 
Sounds to me like you're trying things that are too hard. There's always "buckle down and practice more," but that's pointless if you reaching way over your head.

Ratchet back the difficulty by a lot and see how your progress. You also might try breaking skills down to their basic components. Having trouble with chords? Just practice chords. Having trouble with picking. Just practice picking.

Be sure to practice intentionally too. Just playing the song is never going to get you that far. Break it down.
 
When I ask myself, "Am I having fun doing what I'm doing?" and the answer is repeatedly "Not really.", and what I'm doing isn't paying my bills or a necessity of life, I move on (or try to, sometimes I waste more time by being stubborn) to things (songs) that are more consistently fun.

But I also have never been a successful brute force learner. If I try, the return for the immense investment of time will be minuscule. Too much struggle, too much fighting. If, on the other hand, I enjoy myself and feel enthusiastic about something, I improve at a much faster pace. The trick is probably finding the sweet spot between an approach that requires no effort (may not yield much improvement) and one that requires too much un-fun effort (also yields almost no improvement for me).

If I felt I have to endure and persevere, I would probably rethink my entire approach, because to me it would mean that it's not working -- and even if it did, the lack of enjoyment would not make it worthwhile. But this is me, and I'm chiefly a dabbler, not an achiever. :) I'm also decidedly not in the "no gain without pain" camp as I value the journey more than the destination (or at least not less).

But this is probably too general. On a practical level, I think the response above is spot on. Break it down, consider easier tunes, isolate the component you feel is the trickiest (specific chord changes, etc), etc. Sometimes it's good to let things settle: take a break, do something else.
 
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When I get bored, I put it away and come back to it later. I also like to mix up the difficulty a bit, so I learn a few easy ditties in the short term while I have some others that I'm sure I'll master one day, but no time soon.
 
I am basically a finger picker, or rather a thumb picker, I am slow when playing a tune/melody, over time I will speed up, am I worried?

No. I'm doing this to enjoy myself, I'll never be good, but I might end up being an adequete player. :)

(Whilst being just a picker, I also practice a little bit of chord changing, etc.)
 
As was mentioned, that usually happens when I come up against a song that's beyond my skill set, or when I've reached a plateau and gotten bored. Mixing things up by playing simpler songs, or practicing troubling elements within the song can help. So can reminding yourself to take it easy, relax, and breathe while playing. I actually play better after a beer since my mind's no longer trying to get it perfect.

Learning a song can be a lot like writing poetry. When you've done as much as you can do, put it aside and work on something else, going back to it after nine months. When you pick it back up, see whether the gestation period has given birth to a new ease with which to play the song. At the very least, you'll be looking at it with new eyes and a fresh perspective.
 
Knowing when to move on is different for everyone. The trick I found is to try something very different. I had been playing mostly country pop tunes as that is what my neighbor had music for. The other day I found an Irish Jig and started practicing the high tempo strum pattern for it and it is a little complicated and FAST! After about a week I had the chord changes down and the feel of the beat, but was still too slow to play it like the yourtubes. However in the last few days my strumming speed has built up and my chord changes are getting fast enough to add a couple of changes in it to make it my own arrangement.

Now when I go back to Hotel California, my changes are better and I don't struggle with forming the chord shapes. So The Agricultural Irish Girl has helped me a lot even if I can't play it cleanly yet. Last year this time I could barely do C-F-G7 changes at 40-50 bpm, now I can do five different keys and make it at 90-100 bpm. If I ever learn to finger pick tabs I'll be dangerous!

Rotate your songs and try different things to keep the fun in your playing.
 
How long have you been playing for? Could you post a copy of a song that you quit playing for the reasons you mentioned? Do you try and memorize the song or do you play from sheet music? Do you play with others (club, friend, etc.) or solo? It would help with suggestions to know.
 
I like everything Brad said......he is a teacher and a great player so he knows of what he speaks. Try no tempo practice, write out the chords and slowly play it with just 4 slow down strums and smooth changes between chords. You eventual speed up in steps until you are up to speed.

As an example of how long learning something can take. I did a sound sample demo back in Sept. and I did another one in Jan..playing the same song. I practiced that song everyday and I feel the most recent sample is true to tempo and feel. It took that long......but it was worth it
 
When you practice a song you don't have to always play from beginning to end. Practice it by section, even by phrase, focusing on the hard parts. Repeating the hard parts repeatedly in a small amount of time helps a lot.

Becoming better is not a linear progression. I can go weeks feeling like I'm not getting anywhere and then one day I seem like I've improved a lot. Playing a musical instrument is not a single skill. It is a set of different skills and your overall progression is just a reflection of what is happening with each of the skills. I wouldn't suggest analyzing it this way particularly, just know that things move along as they will. You can always set a piece aside and come back in a few months.
 
Record yourself, then listen critically. This will show what you need to improve and document improvement.
This approach has helped me. Don't give up.
 
Record yourself, then listen critically. This will show what you need to improve and document improvement.
This approach has helped me. Don't give up.

This is a great piece of advice Hodge and something I do as well. I think I have something down pat until I hear it recorded, very effective learning tool.You can do it quickly on a smart phone and you will hear the parts that need "working on".
 
I agree with playing something easier. If it is taking you that long to learn to play something, maybe you aren't quite ready for it yet. I've found that experiencing lots of smaller successes is much more productive, than having one grand failure.
 
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The advice to break the song down is really good advice.

I find it helpful to make an audio recording and then listen back to it. From this I can identify the parts that aren't working, and then can concentrate on those.

Just as an example, suppose you have a chord change which is always jerky. Try different inversions of the chord to see if one of those makes the change easier - for example, D to E7 could be 2220 -> 1202, or it could be 2225 ->4445.

Similarly, if there's a passage where you regularly lose the tune when singing, a different chord inversion might emphasise the notes you need to hit and make it easier to keep the tune.
 
Try to mentally visualize it before you go to sleep. This might be easier if you do it line by line, or bar by bar. I have found this really speeds up retaining chord melody or fingerpicked songs. I go through the song note by note and where my fingers need to be over and over instead of counting sheep.
 
Much good advice in this thread. I always listen to other people's recordings of the song. Search on spotify, buy records...then listen over and over (and over). In that way, the song sneaks into your system and becomes easier to learn. Listening is one hundred percent essential for all musicians. When I had piano students who wanted to play jazz, I used to ask them if they listened to jazz. If they answered no, I told them they couldn't play it either. Most of them took the hint, and many of them play jazz today. They started to listen to the stuff they wanted to master.
 
It definitely sounds like you may be trying to play beyond your limits. I echo some of the advice others have given on this thread: take it slow, start breaking songs up and practice in chunks. You might also consider incorporating scales in your warm-up or practice if you aren't already. This will help you develop your fundamentals and skills, and ultimately should help as you sit down to learn new songs. I'm sure you are a fine learner. Perhaps you just haven't found the right method of learning that suits you best. It may be helpful if you join a group--playing with others can often help you improve and can make it more fun. Alternatively, maybe taking lessons will help you with staying motivated and organizing your practice time to help you be more efficient. Practicing every day shows great dedication, but don't underestimate the value of taking a break (maybe just 1 day a week). Sometimes your body and brain just need a little time to take in what you have learned.
 
I understand the frustration you feel. In addition to other comments about about possibly attacking a few easier songs for confidence building, a few things I try to keep in mind:

1) Many professional musicians take a very long time to get a song where they want it. Yes, they're performing to a higher standard, but if it takes them a year to perfect a song, why should us ordinary folks expect less time to get a song to a point we can feel good about?

2) I saw the great guitarist Tommy Emmanuel a few months ago. He shared there is no secret to learning music. He recommends starting with one bar. Play that until it's memorized and sounds good. Then work on the next bar. When that sounds good, put bars 1 and 2 together. And so on. I found this revelatory. Here one of the greatest acoustic guitarists of all times learns a song by memorizing and practicing one bar at a time. It's sort of like hearing that your sports hero puts his or her pants on one leg a time. We sometimes lose sight that being good at something is often a result of mastering the very basics.

3) My approach is to jump in the deep end. I am learning several songs that are way over my head. But my ultimate test is, "Am I enjoying myself?". I don't really perform for anyone, so even if I'm struggling with getting a song where I want it -- which I often do -- if I'm enjoying the challenge it ultimately doesn't matter to me. I am re-attacking some of these challenging songs using #2 and am noticing faster improvement, though I still have a long way to go.

4) Lastly, sometimes it's one particular bar that creates an obstacle. You don't always have to clear an obstacle. Sometimes it's better to go around it. If you have a musician friend, see if they can help you with an easier approach to that part of the song. Something that works but may be a shortcut, if you will. You can always learn the harder way down the road.

Good luck and keep it fun!!
 
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Nearly everything I play is a fingerstyle/melody-chords. I play better than I used to play, but at any given point in time I have to wonder; as nothing seems to go as smoothly as when I first learned a particular tune. Sometimes I play a tough section clean and then a month later for some reason I start having nothing but problems with that same section. I'll labor over different fingerings, but it is still a struggle and the more I work on it the more aware I am that that section is coming up and that doesn't help.

You say that you have a folder full of songs that you have invested time and they are all riddled with errors. I not going to give you some structured advice on practice techniques and times to play or how many repetitions you need to do to learn something, because for some people that is not going to work. My advice is to play through them with enjoyment and when you get to the places that are causing problems... cheat. I play some of Jake's stretches, but I can't do all of them. So I cheat and figure out what sounds good without having to stretch my hand on a rack or surgically add another finger to it. If there is a section that I need to modify a bit, I change it, remove a few non-core notes that only enhance the piece. You need to start focusing on having a folder full songs that are riddled with a lot of good playing.

John

Edit Added: I was typing this when Ukulele Eddie was posting. I think we are saying the same thing as far as shortcuts.
 
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