How do you assess a ukulele with no label or brand marks?

Hello everyone. I have a question for the more seasoned ukulele folks. If a ukulele has no label and no branding marks, how do you assess the value?

Here's why I ask - there is a little solid wood sporano uke on CL that is claimed to play and sound nice. It is also claimed to be made in Hawaii in the 1930's. I do not know how the seller determined where and when it was made. I have not seen it is person yet, just the photos. The color is similar to my Kamaka gold label, so it could be koa. Or it could be the lighting. 12 frets, none over the body. No binding, but has a rope inlay around the sound hole. It looks like it may be an ebony nut, bridge and saddle are the same color as the rest of the wood. Square end of the fretboard right at the body joint. Looks like a rather round profile to the neck (much different than the rather square shape of my Kamaka). Martin shaped headstock. Friction tuners, unmatched, with some chip-out around one of the peg holes. I don't see any cracks in the photos, but the back seam seems a little wide and could be open. Asking price is $80. I'm not sure it is worth this much or not, and an in-person assessment of the sound and playability would make a lot of difference in the value.

So far all I thought to look for are bar vs. T frets. I'm sure there are a lot more things look at to confirm the seller's story.

Thank you in advance.

If it plays well and sounds good, and doesn't look like it is falling apart, then it's a good deal. Look for a straight neck (not twisted or warped), and check for cracks. Look at the bridge, and check the tuners. $80 is not too much to spend on a nice uke. At that price, it doesn't matter what the label might have been. I haven't been buying vintage, but if I happened upon a good deal for a sweet sounding uke, I would be tempted.

–Lori

In this situation, Id assess it just like I would assess buying a new uke.
Play it and see if I like it.

Lori said:

If it plays well and sounds good, and doesn't look like it is falling apart, then it's a good deal. Look for a straight neck (not twisted or warped), and check for cracks. Look at the bridge, and check the tuners. $80 is not too much to spend on a nice uke. At that price, it doesn't matter what the label might have been. I haven't been buying vintage, but if I happened upon a good deal for a sweet sounding uke, I would be tempted.

–Lori

Click to expand...

^ +1

If you are buying to play then if everything checks out, the question is whether you can find a better uke for $80. Of course there is always the possibility that once you post pictures it turns out to be worth a lot more. Either way I can't see how it would be a bad purchase.

John

I think I found the CL ad, and it looks to me like a 1920's Oscar Schmidt build from New Jersey. But it might be a Harmony of the same vintage, though I don't think so. Three of the pegs obviously aren't original.

If it plays good, and is crack free (open seams aren't a big deal), $80 seems pretty fair.

Thank you to everyone who replied. I appreciate your insights and wisdom.

Here is what the CL ad said:
this is a very old ukulele probably 1930 s all solid wood construction. plays great and stays in tune with old style pegs. call or text $80 firm cash. no case included

We exchanged a few e-mails:
<buyer>I'm interested in your ukulele. Do you have any photos of labels that identify who made this ukulele?
<seller>no label at all no makers marks really nice quality uke. let me know if your still interested
<buyer>Thanks for the reply. With no labels or marks it is difficult to determine exactly what I'm looking at and what it's worth.
Do you know the history of the uke? How did you determine it was built in the 1930's ?
I think I'd like to look at it. Could you meet during lunch hour today or Monday?
<seller>I work on instruments for a living, Im guessing its 30's from the varnish. Its not nitro but varnish I replaced the pegs with new rosewood violin pegs. I have the new regular uke type metal and plastic pegs as well in a package. I was going to make a new bridge and consign it soe place but I just have to many projects call or text me I can meet you. Illl still give it to you for $80 with the new parts. the strings need to be put back on it. Its a great uke for the price call or text me <number deleted>.
<buyer>Thanks. The details are helpful, and I appreciate the quick reply.
Is the current bridge too low to be playable? Any cracks or open seams? Is the body mahogany or koa or ???
It is hard to assess how something plays or sounds with no strings. Do you have strings or should I bring my own?
Are you available today?
<seller>I can put the strings on. its mahogany. no cracks or open seams Im available today early next week Im crazy busy call or text me if you want to see it ill be off lline

I met the young man a little while ago and looked at the ukulele. I think it may be mahogany. Probably. Looks like solid wood all the way around. Tuning pegs are for a violin, very long and very wrong for a ukulele.
Strings are installed in the wrong order, one pops out of the bridge as I try to tune. Bridge is "funny" - it has string slots and no saddle. Seller says he does not like slot bridges either and recommends I replace it with a part ordered from China on e-Bay. I do not have a tuner with me, intonation is uncheckable with these strings and this bridge. After one string pops there is a little buzz on the open C string. The neck depends on having string tension for proper relief. There are a few dings and scuffs, etc., all over. Some orange peel in the finish. The interior looks OK, but seems too clean for this old an instrument. Some of the kerfing around the back is funny. I did not have a light or mirror so I cannot check the inside top. Seller told me he had reset the neck. Frets are T, not bar.
Tone - there is some interesting body resonance, more than I've heard from old Harmony's and Silvertones I've had a chance to play. Different from the body resonance of my Kamaka, more resonance than I recall hearing from my Martin S1.

So there it is. It does not match the ad description of "plays great and stays in tune with old style pegs."

I was prepared to pay the asking price if it matched the ad. It did not, so I made an offer and explained why I was unwilling to give him the asking price. Plus he did, after all, drive out to meet me and was on time.
He accepted. I felt bad because he said he really needed the money.
I can share some photos later and you can tell me how big a mistake I made. My guess is it is not more than a $40 mistake.

A major flaw in our society is attaching a monetary value to an item based on a brand or sticker, rather than the particular piece at hand.

Just my opinion.

If it is worth $80 to you, then it is worth $80, and if not, then not. It sounds as if the piece in question wasn't.

But this is coming from an absolute failure in business, so keep that in mind.

Take care,
Thomas

Share the photos. Having the words "more resonance" and "$40" in the same post leads me to think you didn't make a mistake.

John

Yes, we could help much more with pics.

Once again, thank you for the replies.

The first five photos:


Two of the bridge. It is odd with no saddle. And it's very low, so I think it may be tough to find something to replace it.

Sorry. I hit the 5 photo limit. Here are the next five:


The violin pegs are odd looking. The new ukulele pegs are very small in the headstock holes. I assume I need to fill the hole before installing them.

I am pretty sure that you have a Regal. I gave the uke below to PhilUSAFRet, who is working on it. There is a thread somewhere where Phil found a very similar looking uke to the one I show below identified as a Regal. This one also had the black (ebony/fake ebony) violin type tuning pegs.

pbagley said:

Sorry. I hit the 5 photo limit. Here are the next five:
View attachment 89180View attachment 89181View attachment 89182View attachment 89183View attachment 89184

The violin pegs are odd looking. The new ukulele pegs are very small in the headstock holes. I assume I need to fill the hole before installing them.

Click to expand...

The body looks very much like a Regal shape but the headstock is not a common Regal one. Plus, I don't often come across a vintage uke with such different body and neck tones. Also, the rosette inlay is not a common Regal inlay. What I can tell you is that you have a mainland made ukulele. Doesn't look like an Oscar Schmidt as I think was mentioned early in the thread. I wish I could have seen the violin pegs...the shape and length. The bridge is a common Harmony style bridge and overall the ukulele doesn't have an earlier feel. Again, I'd like to see the wood pegs but in general I wouldn't date it to before the 50's.

Why put friction pegs in if the wood pegs fit and worked? I have many ukes with wood pegs and they work just fine.

Hi there,

I got the same one:

http://antebelluminstruments.blogspot.co.nz/2013/12/c1920-regal-made-tonk-brothers-mahogany.html

Enjoy! its super light and sounds great!

Thank you DougW and chefuke. My little soprano looks a lot like the photos you provided, though perhaps not in as good a condition.

Here are three more photos:



The back of the neck profile looks similar to one of the photos chefuke sent us to. I am more convinced that this is likely a Regal made. Does anyone know when Regal started using "T" frets?

Vintageukes brought up a good point on neck vs. body color. I thought the same thing. Then I saw chefule's photos.

The violin pegs are really big. Kind of comical in a way. They are pretty light, and I expect the replacement friction tuners to be of similar weight. I think the violin tuners could work if I tapered the holes to match the pegs. As they are now they are not great. I think the seller slapped them in just to get strings on the uke for me.

Speaking of strings, here are the measurements I took this morning using a dial caliper: .024, .031, .032, .026 They were not in that order on the uke. They feel rather stiff for ukulele strings and are headed to the trash. I'll try either Oasis or Martin M600's when I string it. I just want to make a set of peg hole dowels to make the new friction tuners work. And speaking of those pretty new friction tuners, I think I found them on e-bay. Best price was 99 cents US. If they are no good I'll order some Golden Gates... or some open gear machines. Are those pitchforks and torches I see coming my way?

I'll find an inspection mirror for a look inside the top later today. Last night's band rehearsal really cut into my uke time.

^^looks like an exact match, this forum is awesome!

UkerDanno said:

^^looks like an exact match, this forum is awesome!

Click to expand...

I fully and wholeheartedly agree.

M

pbagley said:

Thank you DougW and chefuke. My little soprano looks a lot like the photos you provided, though perhaps not in as good a condition.

Here are three more photos:
View attachment 89197View attachment 89198View attachment 89199


The back of the neck profile looks similar to one of the photos chefuke sent us to. I am more convinced that this is likely a Regal made. Does anyone know when Regal started using "T" frets?

Vintageukes brought up a good point on neck vs. body color. I thought the same thing. Then I saw chefule's photos.

The violin pegs are really big. Kind of comical in a way. They are pretty light, and I expect the replacement friction tuners to be of similar weight. I think the violin tuners could work if I tapered the holes to match the pegs. As they are now they are not great. I think the seller slapped them in just to get strings on the uke for me.

Speaking of strings, here are the measurements I took this morning using a dial caliper: .024, .031, .032, .026 They were not in that order on the uke. They feel rather stiff for ukulele strings and are headed to the trash. I'll try either Oasis or Martin M600's when I string it. I just want to make a set of peg hole dowels to make the new friction tuners work. And speaking of those pretty new friction tuners, I think I found them on e-bay. Best price was 99 cents US. If they are no good I'll order some Golden Gates... or some open gear machines. Are those pitchforks and torches I see coming my way?

I'll find an inspection mirror for a look inside the top later today. Last night's band rehearsal really cut into my uke time.

Click to expand...

Those tuners look just right for the job! I am also very curious whether there are any markings or sanded patches inside. Please let us know!

Greetings and enjoy your 20's bargain!

That looks like a great deal - congratulations on the new (old) uke!

Quick update - I ordered a set of tuners with 7mm ferruls off e-Bay. Here is the description:
- This is specifically sold as Ukulele tuning pegs but could equally be used for various other instruments
- A small screw at the top is used to adjust the pressure, High precision
- Color: Black
- The central peg is made of steel, the top is black plastic
- The end of the shaft about 7 mm/0.28" in diameter
All that for $5.52 and free shipping... from China. They are in transit.

In the mean time I got impatient and bought some 5/15" dowel rods so I could use the friction tuners that came with the uke. They came in a pack of 7, each about a foot long. When I got home I was trying to open the top when one fell out of the bottom of the package. That's when I realized I had paid for seven and got six. Lucky that all I need is less than a quarter of one of the rods. I spent all of $1.69 for the one short package.

The holes in the peg head are slightly less than 5/16", so I have some sanding to do before I cut these to length and drill the center. After doing a little sanding on one of the dowel rods I find the holes in the peghead do have a very slight taper, a bit less than the violin pegs. They are definitely larger than 7mm/0.28" so the pegs from China may have been a mistake.

Unfortunately life has kept me busy this week. Car work, a uke jam, and a church rehearsal. I'll update with progress when I'm able.