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jelow1966
04-09-2016, 10:34 AM
This is a bit of a vent but also a question so I hope it is OK to post. This week I agreed thru PM to buy a uke that was for sale in the marketplace. Last night I was informed by the seller that he sold it locally, without even so much as a warning that he had another interested party. I understand that this an informal marketplace but I really hope that this is not the norm. To me the sale ends once the buyer and seller agree even if no money has been exchanged. If something goes wrong after that it seems fair to re-list the item. Maybe I'm being naive here but I would honor an agreement done thru PM even if it meant less money and I hope that for the vast majority of people here that is how they see it as well. In the end it's not a big deal, there will be plenty more out there to buy and I have a beautiful Graziano to play but it does make me think twice now when looking.

Thanks for letting me vent. :)

John

billten
04-09-2016, 11:13 AM
Vent away John, most of us have had deals go sideways on us and we are left with a feeling of general distrust... but on the other hand i have dealt with some amazingly honest and classy people here so give it a while and then step back up and you probably find the next seller you deal with is a good experience.

On another note i still think having a sub-forum of trading feedback would be a great thing, it is used in so many other forums and may save a buyer from making a bad choice.

hawaii 50
04-09-2016, 11:25 AM
never bought or sold a uke in the marketplace....but once you say you are buying don't you follow up right away with payment? I am sure if the seller had the money in his hands he never would of sold the uke to anyone else.....don't know the details but hard to argue your point unless we hear from the seller....

my 2 cents

Doc_J
04-09-2016, 11:41 AM
Shake it off. Maybe that uke really wasn't destined for you. Maybe you avoided a problem.

I've bought and sold many a uke here and elsewhere, 99% were smooth transactions.
Folks agree on terms and price, and it's a done deal.

One bad apple doesn't mean the whole bunch are.

rappsy
04-09-2016, 11:58 AM
As a very active buyer, seller, and trader, this happens more than I would like as well, BUT, the times that it has happened to me has caused a delay long enough for me to get something that wasn't available when I started the transaction and I ended up happier.

It'a quite upsetting as I have had sellers actually tell me that they changed their mind on selling me something because they found a buyer that would pay more. Smile, bite your lip, and realize that there is something better out there. Also, most of these people disappeared soon after, so.....

Most of my transactions have been great experiences and I have made friends that will last for a long time. It is a great place to transact business and have fun. Don't get discouraged. Keep it up. You will take away much more from this forum in positive experiences than you will in negatives.

mkatz
04-09-2016, 11:58 AM
Shake it off. Maybe that uke really wasn't destined for you. Maybe you avoided a problem.

I've bought and sold many a uke here and elsewhere, 99% were smooth transactions.
Folks agree on terms and price, and it's done deal.

On bad apple doesn't mean the whole bunch are.

I agree Hodge!

Mitch

DownUpDave
04-09-2016, 12:13 PM
Normally I do agree with Hodge and I guess I still do but that 1% can hurt and you have to be careful.

I have a Collings UT2 up for sale and a "New Member" for Malyasia contacted me and said he wanted to buy it. Over the last 5 days we have gone back and forth and he keeps asking questions and slowly trying to change the terms. It should have been a simple paypal transaction, I do not even ask for friends and family, I take the hit so both parties are covered. He sent me another email wanting an invoice from me and an hour ago he suggested we forget paypal so I don't loose money and he would transfer the funds into my bank account.

I told him the deal was off and I would not be scamed. I gave him an hour to make the paypal deposit and he has not done that.

Booli
04-09-2016, 12:15 PM
I do not hear about this happening often here on UU, so this abandoning of a sale here for a local offer is likely the exception.

Typically if an item in the marketplace is ALSO for sale local to the seller, they will disclose that in the sale listing, if not, it seems dishonest to me.

As a general rule, I will not make an offer if:

1. The seller is new to the forum, i.e., less than 4-5 months at least.
2. The seller has less than 100 posts to the forum.
3. The seller's account is several years old, yet they also have less than 100 posts here.

Reasons for the above are related to the fact that if the seller is not part of this community, then they have no reputation, no history, and no engagement here.

Hit-and-run sales can be done MANY other places online, ebay, cragslist, kijiji and others where there is no 'community'.

I'm not paranoid, but I've found lots of lies or incompetent descriptions on ebay and craigslist, and whether due to ignorance or malice, the end result is that you really have no perfect idea what in fact you are sending your money across the internet to buy.

Trying to get your money back is ALWAYS a hassle unless you deal with honest folks. Yes, YYMV, but most folks here on UU are not interested in hurting other people or perpetuating scams, otherwise they'd likely be banned after a few bad transactions.

So, even though I've been burned by sellers on ebay a handful of times, I am still optimistic that if you can do your own diligence and research, you can mitigate the problems with Marketplace deals, here on UU and elsewhere.

I will continue to try and believe that NOT everyone is evil. :)

Mivo
04-09-2016, 12:30 PM
I may go a bit against the flow here, but I feel that unless money has been exchanged, the seller is free to take up another offer. I understand why someone would prefer to sell a ukulele locally: less hassle with shipping, no risk for either side with the money transfer, and instant gratification, though I also understand John's frustration in a case like this. It's probably one of those situations where the views of both parties are valid.

That said, personally, if I sold a ukulele, I would not offer it in different places at the same time (say, here and also locally), precisely to avoid a situation like this.

sam13
04-09-2016, 12:32 PM
Normally I do agree with Hodge and I guess I still do but that 1% can hurt and you have to be careful.

I have a Collings UT2 up for sale and a "New Member" for Malyasia contacted me and said he wanted to buy it. Over the last 5 days we have gone back and forth and he keeps asking questions and slowly trying to change the terms. It should have been a simple paypal transaction, I do not even ask for friends and family, I take the hit so both parties are covered. He sent me another email wanting an invoice from me and an hour ago he suggested we forget paypal so I don't loose money and he would transfer the funds into my bank account.

I told him the deal was off and I would not be scamed. I gave him an hour to make the paypal deposit and he has not done that.

Booli's criterion might be good advice for those of us looking to sell as well.

All I can say is that we swim in a sea of Ukuleles and a better one will show up!

mds725
04-09-2016, 12:39 PM
I've been lucky. I have bought and/or sold ukuleles in the Marketplace only a few times, buy each has been a good experience with someone who did what he promised to do.

From a legal standpoint, an offer generally becomes binding on the offerer when it is accepted, unless the acceptance changes any of the terms of the offer, in which case the acceptance is actually a counteroffer the seller my refuse. Often, especially when sales are agreed to in forums, it's difficult to pay right away, as the details of payment and shipping have to be worked out. In the legal world, the laws anticipate this problem so that a deal is sometimes considered having been made at the time of agreement, but unless something is unique, like real property, the remedy is that the buyer gets his money back (and the buyer is not considered damaged if he hasn't paid, unless he declined another opportunity in anticipation of buying the item he accepted the offer to buy), not that the seller is forced to sell the item he offered for sale. If all my years as a lawyer have taught me anything, it's that often it isn't worth asserting one's legal rights. Forcing someone to do something, even if they're supposed to, can be frustrating and it's probably bad karma. I like to believe that the universe takes care of people who renege.

I prefer, as many people who have posted in this thread have said, to think of what should have been a done deal going sideways as a blessing I just don't know about yet -- something better invariably comes along. I once had a luthier cancel my order to build an ukulele with wood that I had selected (the lutheier bought the woodset I found online after I send a link to show the luthier the set I was planning to buy) and after I had made a deposit (the deposit was returned to me, but the luthier kept the woodset). I was angry at the time, but the money I didn't spend on that ukulele allowed me to get a custom Beau Hannam tenor later, and I couldn't be happier about that.

It would be nice if there were a marketplace review subforum here, if only to encourage people to be on their best behavior when buying or selling something. In your shoes, I would shake off the slight, make a mental note to avoid any potential transactions with the person who sold the uke from under you after you agreed to buy it, and wait for the "something better" to come along.

Rllink
04-09-2016, 12:44 PM
I am pretty pragmatic. I think it is simply a matter of who owns the ukulele.

jelow1966
04-09-2016, 12:45 PM
never bought or sold a uke in the marketplace....but once you say you are buying don't you follow up right away with payment? I am sure if the seller had the money in his hands he never would of sold the uke to anyone else.....don't know the details but hard to argue your point unless we hear from the seller....

my 2 cents

I was told by the seller he would send me the PayPal info I needed when he was ready to ship. Otherwise I agree, once you have the info the buyer needs to send payment right away.

John

jelow1966
04-09-2016, 12:47 PM
Shake it off. Maybe that uke really wasn't destined for you. Maybe you avoided a problem.

I've bought and sold many a uke here and elsewhere, 99% were smooth transactions.
Folks agree on terms and price, and it's done deal.

On bad apple doesn't mean the whole bunch are.

Couldn't agree more. I'm sure something better will come along and that most everyone here is a good honest person to do business with.

John

hawaii 50
04-09-2016, 12:48 PM
I was told by the seller he would send me the PayPal info I needed when he was ready to ship. Otherwise I agree, once you have the info the buyer needs to send payment right away.

John


if what you say is true....pretty sad...IMO

jelow1966
04-09-2016, 12:55 PM
I may go a bit against the flow here, but I feel that unless money has been exchanged, the seller is free to take up another offer. I understand why someone would prefer to sell a ukulele locally: less hassle with shipping, no risk for either side with the money transfer, and instant gratification, though I also understand John's frustration in a case like this. It's probably one of those situations where the views of both parties are valid.

That said, personally, if I sold a ukulele, I would not offer it in different places at the same time (say, here and also locally), precisely to avoid a situation like this.

Yep. What irks me the most is that I believe it was sold to someone who contacted the seller here days after I had PMed him and then picked it up. I'm fine with the seller choosing to do it that way if he at least offers me a chance to up my offer, in this case paying shipping which I might have been willing to do. Only seems fair and I do get why a seller would choose the local option. Personally I wouldn't unless the person I was dealing with first was okay with it after I explained the situation. For the most part I'd rather lose a little potential money and keep my word instead.

John

Booli
04-09-2016, 12:59 PM
I may go a bit against the flow here, but I feel that unless money has been exchanged, the seller is free to take up another offer. I understand why someone would prefer to sell a ukulele locally: less hassle with shipping, no risk for either side with the money transfer, and instant gratification, though I also understand John's frustration in a case like this. It's probably one of those situations where the views of both parties are valid.

That said, personally, if I sold a ukulele, I would not offer it in different places at the same time (say, here and also locally), precisely to avoid a situation like this.


Mivo, I think you may have a good point here that if the money does not flow then it's all fair game.

I tend to take people at their word, maybe I am too gullible, or too optimistic, and expect that when they express intent, and a verbal or gentleman's agreement is made, that this a promise or covenant that is going to be honored by both sides.

Exceptions can arise, but as responsible adults we can adjust to them as needed if both parties are amenable.

The problem I find is that sometimes there are expert con artists who prey on folks like me, so I try to have a good radar for things like this, to avoid anything that seems 'fishy' by my own definition.

A buyer/seller feedback sub-forum may be a good idea, but proper management of one is not without perils and pitfalls, and would require special care not to become a place for mudslinging and slander.

jelow1966
04-09-2016, 01:02 PM
if what you say is true....pretty sad...IMO

Sadly it is all too true.

But the good folks here have offered good advice and much like the ukulele itself have left me in a better mood. So thanks all :)

John

Mivo
04-09-2016, 01:21 PM
I tend to take people at their word, maybe I am too gullible, or too optimistic, and expect that when they express intent, and a verbal or gentleman's agreement is made, that this a promise or covenant that is going to be honored by both sides.

I think this should be the default. John added some information that shifted my view a bit, too. The fact that the seller had agreed, but not provided payment information so that John could transfer the money, is the decisive aspect, I feel. If John had not transferred the money because he didn't have it yet or because he wasn't 100% sure of whether he wanted it, I wouldn't criticize the seller for selling it to someone who not only expressed interest, but handed over the money too. But not giving John the PayPal info after agreeing to the deal, then selling to someone else, yes, I feel that is bad form.

jelow1966
04-09-2016, 01:40 PM
I think this should be the default. John added some information that shifted my view a bit, too. The fact that the seller had agreed, but not provided payment information so that John could transfer the money, is the decisive aspect, I feel. If John had not transferred the money because he didn't have it yet or because he wasn't 100% sure of whether he wanted it, I wouldn't criticize the seller for selling it to someone who not only expressed interest, but handed over the money too. But not giving John the PayPal info after agreeing to the deal, then selling to someone else, yes, I feel that is bad form.

Very well put. If it was a case of me being slow to pay that would all be on me and I'd have to suck it up and admit I was at fault.

John

Jim Hanks
04-09-2016, 02:13 PM
I was told by the seller he would send me the PayPal info I needed when he was ready to ship.
Then he broke the agreement and is in the wrong. Simple as that. You are justified in being upset. But really nothing you can do but move on and don't deal with him I future.

Snargle
04-09-2016, 02:20 PM
A buyer/seller feedback sub-forum may be a good idea, but proper management of one is not without perils and pitfalls, and would require special care not to become a place for mudslinging and slander.Agreed. Such a sub-forum would be a nightmare for the moderators. I can see it easily turning into an online brawl, with sides being taken, and accomplishing basically nothing other than a lot of people getting angry.

Kyle23
04-09-2016, 02:45 PM
A buyer/seller feedback sub-forum may be a good idea, but proper management of one is not without perils and pitfalls, and would require special care not to become a place for mudslinging and slander.

I agree with this. Maybe not a whole forum, but a spot on your profile with successful buys and sales. I used to trade/sell/buy sports cards on another forum years ago and it was a great way to see who had been involved in successful deals. Basically like an ebay's feedback page. It's a bit different with trading, because you really have to put your trust into someone to trade as there is no PayPal middle man to resolve issues. Sometimes people would say "okay lets send Monday"... One would send Monday and the other one would get a free package without sending. That happened very rarely, but you knew when you seen someone with 100+ successful trades, he was trustworthy. On this forum, all you can really see is post count and join date along with the occasional person vouching for them in the posts. This board is much more mature than the sports card trading site though.

heyyoutoo
04-11-2016, 09:45 AM
This is really interesting to me. I'm newish to the forum without many posts, although I've read nearly every ukulele-related thread that has been active since I joined, and many older ones that I found topical. I don't post many questions since this forum is quite robust and generally if I search, I can find my answers in the archives. I don't post many responses because I don't have the experience or expertise that so many others do.

I certainly understand your reluctance to conduct financial transactions with unknowns, but I'm wondering, as a new member, how to gain the confidence of the group if criteria like yours needs to be met. Short of making a number of unsubstantial posts, or playing the word games to get my post count up, how is this achieved? I have made one purchase here; a great transaction, and was too late on two other inquiries. I'm asking for future selling reference; I have three ukuleles I'd like to re-home; two aren't of high enough value to post on this marketplace, but one other I believe is.





I do not hear about this happening often here on UU, so this abandoning of a sale here for a local offer is likely the exception.

Typically if an item in the marketplace is ALSO for sale local to the seller, they will disclose that in the sale listing, if not, it seems dishonest to me.

As a general rule, I will not make an offer if:

1. The seller is new to the forum, i.e., less than 4-5 months at least.
2. The seller has less than 100 posts to the forum.
3. The seller's account is several years old, yet they also have less than 100 posts here.

Reasons for the above are related to the fact that if the seller is not part of this community, then they have no reputation, no history, and no engagement here.

Hit-and-run sales can be done MANY other places online, ebay, cragslist, kijiji and others where there is no 'community'.

I'm not paranoid, but I've found lots of lies or incompetent descriptions on ebay and craigslist, and whether due to ignorance or malice, the end result is that you really have no perfect idea what in fact you are sending your money across the internet to buy.

Trying to get your money back is ALWAYS a hassle unless you deal with honest folks. Yes, YYMV, but most folks here on UU are not interested in hurting other people or perpetuating scams, otherwise they'd likely be banned after a few bad transactions.

So, even though I've been burned by sellers on ebay a handful of times, I am still optimistic that if you can do your own diligence and research, you can mitigate the problems with Marketplace deals, here on UU and elsewhere.

I will continue to try and believe that NOT everyone is evil. :)

natchez
04-11-2016, 10:01 AM
My 2 cents from past practice: If there was a valid offer that was accepted, then there was a contract for the sale of goods. Not honoring a commitment made is both legally and ethically wrong, which does not happen much here from what I have seen. Folks here seem to be most honorable.

Jim Hanks
04-11-2016, 11:34 AM
how to gain the confidence of the group if criteria like yours needs to be met...how is this achieved?...I have three ukuleles I'd like to re-home; two aren't of high enough value to post on this marketplace, but one other I believe is.

There's no single answer to that. If you read the marketplace guidelines I don't think there's anything in there about post counts or time on the forum, etc. Individual buyers are going to have their own comfort level for when to make a deal. As a seller, follow the guidelines (dated picture, honest about condition, terms of sale, shipping,etc.), make your post and see what happens.

As far as the "not high enough value" comment, you never know. Unless it's a total piece of junk you'd be embarrassed to give away, someone else might have a use for it. Anything will sell for the right price. :p

rappsy
04-11-2016, 11:48 AM
This is really interesting to me. I'm newish to the forum without many posts, although I've read nearly every ukulele-related thread that has been active since I joined, and many older ones that I found topical. I don't post many questions since this forum is quite robust and generally if I search, I can find my answers in the archives. I don't post many responses because I don't have the experience or expertise that so many others do.

I certainly understand your reluctance to conduct financial transactions with unknowns, but I'm wondering, as a new member, how to gain the confidence of the group if criteria like yours needs to be met. Short of making a number of unsubstantial posts, or playing the word games to get my post count up, how is this achieved? I have made one purchase here; a great transaction, and was too late on two other inquiries. I'm asking for future selling reference; I have three ukuleles I'd like to re-home; two aren't of high enough value to post on this marketplace, but one other I believe is.

By doing what you are doing here, you will gain the confidence of others. There are no bad questions, and no matter what, someone else has asked them before. We have had a few conversations already, had a few laughs, and even though I don't know you, I would do transactions with you. Sometimes it's just a few words and sometimes it's the actual words than indicate you know a little something about what we do here. I have seen people with very few posts talking about their MB's, MM's, Hives, customs, etc. We like to think that the Ukulele universe is right here and much of it is, but there's a whole Ukulele world out there as well.

PayPal protects and that's good enough for me. Just do not use the friends and family portion until you know someone well enough to feel confidant in doing business with them with no liability protection.

Welcome Barb and best on your sales.

70sSanO
04-11-2016, 12:09 PM
I'm not really taking sides on this one because each side has some valid reasons. In the past I have purchased a ukulele from the marketplace and everything worked out great.

There is a lot more liability shipping an instrument vs. just handing it to someone locally... and the liability goes both ways. If for some reason the shipper damages it, it is a lose-lose for everyone. I really don't want a feedback sub-forum for the marketplace as that will spiral down if one of the parties is really ticked off.

I would not want to have an enforceable length of time and/or a minimum number of posts to be able to sell a ukulele. I was on a forum a number of yeas ago with that criteria and occasionally someone would join and get the minimum posts with single word posts like "Cool," "Great," "^+1," etc. just to be able to sell something. It just takes some common sense to not send off money to someone who just showed up yesterday.

Buying is a different situation with a PayPal account where the seller can verify the payment has been made. There is still some risk, but for someone just getting into the ukulele, the UU marketplace is a great way to go and I would hate to stop a new member from buying that "first" uke of his or her dreams.

John

hawaii 50
04-11-2016, 12:15 PM
I'm not really taking sides on this one because each side has some valid reasons. In the past I have purchased a ukulele from the marketplace and everything worked out great.

There is a lot more liability shipping an instrument vs. just handing it to someone locally... and the liability goes both ways. If for some reason the shipper damages it, it is a lose-lose for everyone. I really don't want a feedback sub-forum for the marketplace as that will spiral down if one of the parties is really ticked off.

I would not want to have an enforceable length of time and/or a minimum number of posts to be able to sell a ukulele. I was on a forum a number of yeas ago with that criteria and occasionally someone would join and get the minimum posts with single word posts like "Cool," "Great," "^+1," etc. just to be able to sell something. It just takes some common sense to not send off money to someone who just showed up yesterday.

Buying is a different situation with a PayPal account where the seller can verify the payment has been made. There is still some risk, but for someone just getting into the ukulele, the UU marketplace is a great way to go and I would hate to stop a new member from buying that "first" uke of his or her dreams.

John

although I agree with the OP in general there is no taking sides..as the seller never told his side of the story to us....but I guess him staying quiet shows he knows he may not have done right to the buyer....IMO

SteveZ
04-11-2016, 12:22 PM
Interesting thread...

Have made several transactions on UU (no duds yet), several on the largest mndolin board (no duds yet) and one on another uke board (headache and a half!).

Everybody seems to have their own UU (or other board) marketplace strategy. Mine is simple:

1) Sell to anyone, but Paypal funds have to clear within an hour of the agreement being made. It only takes me a couple minutes to send money to a seller after we agree to a deal, and I expect the same from folk who buy from me. PayPal has several ways to send money (PayPal account, linked bank account and linked credit card), so there's no reason (to me, anyway) to take longer than an hour to send the agreed money. I include the PayPal transaction fees in the price - no exceptions ever.

2. Buy only from folk with a history of being a conscientious board member, preferably with someone who has had a few successful transactions with others. The UU search function allows for doing some "due diligence" on board members I don't recognize - prior postings, listings in the marketplace, et cetera. I prefer to always chat with the other person over-the-phone to get a better "feel" of the deal. This usually leads to new friends. I only will pay by PayPal and won't buy from someone who wants to bypass the transaction fees (which protect me, too!) no matter how well I know them.

3. Trade only with folk from whom I'd buy - no exceptions. I have no problem shipping an instrument to someone in my "approved buy/trade" category. Haven't been burned yet on a trade.

Booli
04-11-2016, 01:47 PM
This is really interesting to me. I'm newish to the forum without many posts, although I've read nearly every ukulele-related thread that has been active since I joined, and many older ones that I found topical. I don't post many questions since this forum is quite robust and generally if I search, I can find my answers in the archives. I don't post many responses because I don't have the experience or expertise that so many others do.

I certainly understand your reluctance to conduct financial transactions with unknowns, but I'm wondering, as a new member, how to gain the confidence of the group if criteria like yours needs to be met. Short of making a number of unsubstantial posts, or playing the word games to get my post count up, how is this achieved? I have made one purchase here; a great transaction, and was too late on two other inquiries. I'm asking for future selling reference; I have three ukuleles I'd like to re-home; two aren't of high enough value to post on this marketplace, but one other I believe is.

Dont go by me alone. I am only a single potential buyer here. I'm sure that other folks have a different standard, and whatever that may be that works for them is fine. There is no one perfect set of criteria to suit everyone.

What I posted is what has worked for me to minimize my risk of getting screwed in the deal, which has not happened in a very long time. But in the early days of eBay and similar, I fell prey to some scams, thankfully not too expensive, but lessons were learned....once bitten, twice shy...

As far as how to overcome the 'newbie' status?

Mainly, ENGAGE with the community here. Participate in a meaningful way. If you dont have many questions or answers, then why not make a video for the Seasons Contests (http://forum.ukuleleunderground.com/forumdisplay.php?47-Seasons-of-the-Ukulele) that runs weekly, and that way folks can see your face, and see your comments in those threads? Lots of wonderful folks over in the Seasons...

see here: http://forum.ukuleleunderground.com/forumdisplay.php?47-Seasons-of-the-Ukulele

It's not the only quantity of your posts here, but the QUALITY. Lets say you asked a question, that got a discussion going, and many folks contributing, and it ran for a few days, a week, a FEW WEEKS even and ENGAGED people here and added meaningful content to this forum....then you would definitely rise up and gain higher esteem here on the forum...rather than 225 posts of 'I agree' and ' ha ha lol good one' etc...


By doing what you are doing here, you will gain the confidence of others. There are no bad questions, and no matter what, someone else has asked them before. We have had a few conversations already, had a few laughs, and even though I don't know you, I would do transactions with you. Sometimes it's just a few words and sometimes it's the actual words than indicate you know a little something about what we do here. I have seen people with very few posts talking about their MB's, MM's, Hives, customs, etc. We like to think that the Ukulele universe is right here and much of it is, but there's a whole Ukulele world out there as well.

As Lenny has said, keep getting involved, and don't be shy.

Newbie here or not, as far as posting an item for sale, you've got nothing to lose if you do, and it will just sit in your closet, collecting dust if you dont.

Maybe it wont sell, but without trying you'll never know. There are many many buyers here on UU, all with different ideas of what they might look for in a sale, and in a used instrument. I say, 'GO FOR IT'....but make sure to read the official forum rules of buying/selling first..

see here: http://forum.ukuleleunderground.com/showthread.php?85568-Ukulele-Underground-Forum-Rules

Good Luck! :)

Twibbly
04-11-2016, 02:17 PM
There's no single answer to that. If you read the marketplace guidelines I don't think there's anything in there about post counts or time on the forum, etc. Individual buyers are going to have their own comfort level for when to make a deal. As a seller, follow the guidelines (dated picture, honest about condition, terms of sale, shipping,etc.), make your post and see what happens.

As far as the "not high enough value" comment, you never know. Unless it's a total piece of junk you'd be embarrassed to give away, someone else might have a use for it. Anything will sell for the right price. :p

It can also help a LOT to post a video, even if all you can do is My Dog Has Fleas and a C chord (although I would explain that that is all you can do!). I look for sound and reputation (and price, 'cause I'm broke), especially after doing dumb on my first one (bought it at a local music shop, no set up, even though it's a good instrument).

Booli
04-11-2016, 02:46 PM
It can also help a LOT to post a video, even if all you can do is My Dog Has Fleas and a C chord (although I would explain that that is all you can do!). I look for sound and reputation (and price, 'cause I'm broke), especially after doing dumb on my first one (bought it at a local music shop, no set up, even though it's a good instrument).

YES - good idea.

Nobody should feel shame for lack of ability.

Also, I like what SteveZ said above and I think lots can be learned in this thread, for I sure have. :)

hollisdwyer
04-11-2016, 03:58 PM
My 2 cents from past practice: If there was a valid offer that was accepted, then there was a contract for the sale of goods. Not honoring a commitment made is both legally and ethically wrong, which does not happen much here from what I have seen. Folks here seem to be most honorable.

I'll make that 4 cents. Yep, offer and acceptance rules are the framework of commerce. Be cavalier with these in the real world and you can end up in court. This is why we, who use the marketplace, must be very clear as to the parameters of the proposed transaction. Don't assume anything!

EssexRiver
04-11-2016, 04:12 PM
Sorry your deal went sideways. It's a drag when that happens. Although it's not happened to me on this forum, it has on another forum.

We all have different comfort levels and risk-aversion tolerances, but there's some good guidelines in this thread that I adhere to as well.

Nickie
04-11-2016, 08:21 PM
This certainly is an enlightening thread. I'm glad the OP posted it, and you guys chimed in. I am painfully honest, especially in dealing with money, mine or yours. If I sold you a uke, and you hesitated, and I had a higher offer, I'd ask you point blank if I could have your blessing to sell it to the other buyer.
I've bought one uke and sold one uke here, and both deals worked out great, and I was happy. In fact the one I sold, right after the buyer and I agreed on a price, before I had shipped or gotten any money, a local prospect offered me more. I told him, sorry, it's been sold.
This may be why I am fairly poor, but I sleep very well at night. My relationships with people are far more important to me than money. Just sayin'.
Maybe I'm a nerd.
But jelow, I don't think that uke was meant to be yours....

buddhuu
04-11-2016, 11:33 PM
Some observations. I don't suggest you take this as expert advice, just as something someone wrote in a forum.

First observation: On some of the guitar forums I visit, people put a note in their signature listing members with whom they have experienced positive transactions. They do not list people with whom things didn't go smoothly. This kind of visible recommendation makes sense to me.

Second observation: I, personally, would not accept PayPal payment if the buyer is collecting in person. A friend of mine lost out substantially when selling a heavy gold chain on the Bay. He accepted a PayPal payment and the buyer subsequently arrived and took possession of the item. A while later the buyer contacted PayPal to complain that my friend had not posted the item. As my friend had no proof of postage the payment was withdrawn, leaving him down several hundred pounds. The police took details but he heard nothing more. For me, buyers who collect bring cash with them or they don't collect.

On the other hand, If I'm posting an item I always take payment by PayPal. It isn't perfect, but on balance the protections just outweigh the annoyances.

[/ :2cents: ]

jelow1966
04-13-2016, 07:52 PM
Some observations. I don't suggest you take this as expert advice, just as something someone wrote in a forum.

First observation: On some of the guitar forums I visit, people put a note in their signature listing members with whom they have experienced positive transactions. They do not list people with whom things didn't go smoothly. This kind of visible recommendation makes sense to me.

Second observation: I, personally, would not accept PayPal payment if the buyer is collecting in person. A friend of mine lost out substantially when selling a heavy gold chain on the Bay. He accepted a PayPal payment and the buyer subsequently arrived and took possession of the item. A while later the buyer contacted PayPal to complain that my friend had not posted the item. As my friend had no proof of postage the payment was withdrawn, leaving him down several hundred pounds. The police took details but he heard nothing more. For me, buyers who collect bring cash with them or they don't collect.

On the other hand, If I'm posting an item I always take payment by PayPal. It isn't perfect, but on balance the protections just outweigh the annoyances.

[/ :2cents: ]

A very good cautionary tail there. Sounds like your friend fell victim to someone who knew how to scam and had no shame in doing so.

It's good to see that this thread has proven to be useful, and not just a self indulgent vent. :)

John

hollisdwyer
04-13-2016, 08:03 PM
......It's good to see that this thread has proven to be useful, and not just a self indulgent vent. :)

John

And at the end of the, although there was disappointment, no one lost any money or a beautiful instrument.

Joyful Uke
04-14-2016, 05:59 AM
I've only had one transaction with the Marketplace, but it couldn't have gone smoother. Great experience. Thanks to dirtiestkidever for deciding to sell the exact ukulele I was hoping to find, and for making the whole process a positive experience.

Mivo
04-15-2016, 03:29 AM
Good advice in this thread. :)

I have bought two ukuleles from the UU marketplace, and both transactions were superbly smooth. The first was the Lyon&Healy vintage soprano I had bought from Walker78 in the UK, and the second one was just this week, a Black Bear koa soprano from YorkSteve, also in the UK. Both were "Why did I have to look?" purchases when I wasn't ACTUALLY meaning to buy anything, and both sellers were responsive, shipped very quickly and securely, and I got exactly what was advertised (the Black Bear in particular was a really good deal, too, it's such a delicious instrument, and hard to come by in Europe).

In both cases I offered to send the payment with the Friends&Family option (neither of the two sellers had asked for it, which was the decisive factor - it was me offering it). With larger sums I would probably not have done that, but my trust wasn't disappointed anyway. It also gives the seller some reassurance.

(And yes, sigh, that is #7. Stopping there. No more ukes unless I sell one first! Also curious how I seem to gravitate toward the small sizes again.)

Croaky Keith
04-15-2016, 03:54 AM
(And yes, sigh, that is #7. Stopping there. No more ukes unless I sell one first! Also curious how I seem to gravitate toward the small sizes again.)

Lol!! :rotfl:I just got #10 the other day! Concerts rule! (Sopranos aren't bad either). :D

Mivo
04-15-2016, 05:10 AM
Lol!! :rotfl:I just got #10 the other day! Concerts rule! (Sopranos aren't bad either). :D

At least I don't really buy multiples of the same size and woods! :p It's odd, in pictures, the size differences don't seem nearly as big as they do when you play the things. I just took this photo (https://www.dropbox.com/s/rrpokq0azby165d/Photo%2015-04-16%2014%2049%2028.jpg?dl=0) for a friend, and I understand why to non-players (maybe to players, too) the fretting over sizes may seem really weird. (Took the picture in response to the question why I need more than one, but it didn't quite help my argument as far as she was concerned!)

jelow1966
05-04-2016, 05:20 AM
Thanks to all the positive vibes I got from this thread I gave the marketplace another go and had a transaction from heaven so to speak. PM sent in the evening, uke shipped the next morning. Could not have been better, or a greater contrast to my first attempt. Was meant to end up with this one for sure:)

John

cml
05-04-2016, 09:27 AM
At least I don't really buy multiples of the same size and woods! :p It's odd, in pictures, the size differences don't seem nearly as big as they do when you play the things. I just took this photo (https://www.dropbox.com/s/rrpokq0azby165d/Photo%2015-04-16%2014%2049%2028.jpg?dl=0) for a friend, and I understand why to non-players (maybe to players, too) the fretting over sizes may seem really weird. (Took the picture in response to the question why I need more than one, but it didn't quite help my argument as far as she was concerned!)
To be fair, you didnt put the ukes with the bottom at the same horizontal line, that would have made them look more different in size ;).

Peace Train
05-04-2016, 11:31 AM
To be fair, you didnt put the ukes with the bottom at the same horizontal line, that would have made them look more different in size ;).

Photos can also be deceptive to the viewer when the object is photographed at an angle instead of head on.