19 and 20 inch Scale Length Bari's - What's the effective difference

hollisdwyer

hollisdwyer

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I think this was explained in a recent post but I can't find it so would greatly appreciate it if someone could explain why you might choose one scale length over the other. I have a mighty Bari UAS burning a hole in my wallet and want to understand why this size of Uke comes in two very similar scale lengths.

Thanks in advance for any info you can provide.
 
Availability and tension. Almost all modern baritones are 20+" scale. Some older baritones are 19". Bruko makes a 19" and maybe one other, otherwise its a custom order. The shorter scale of course means lower tension (with the same strings) and a slightly easier reach.

Rough Sopranino, Sop, Con, Ten, Bari scales (in inches):
11, 13, 15, 17, 19 (or 20+)

Be interesting to know why the baritone scale was lengthened beyond the normal 2" jump.
 
bnolsen said:
Availability and tension. Almost all modern baritones are 20+" scale. Some older baritones are 19". Bruko makes a 19" and maybe one other, otherwise its a custom order. The shorter scale of course means lower tension (with the same strings) and a slightly easier reach.

Rough Sopranino, Sop, Con, Ten, Bari scales (in inches):
11, 13, 15, 17, 19 (or 20+)

Be interesting to know why the baritone scale was lengthened beyond the normal 2" jump.
Click to expand...


This is a great answer and covers all the bases. I have a 19" Gianinni and a Pono at 20-1/4" so I have explored both sizes. The 19" is nicer if you what to tune up to Bb as Dirk from South Coast advocates for baritones.

It really is a coin toss Hollis, unless you have some special need or requirement both scale lengths work well. Just to muddy the waters there are super tenors with 19" scale length from Kamaka and Kanilea.
 
Or... You can re-tune a 17' tenor to dGBE and get a very similar sound with a smaller package, shorter scale and easier reach. But a Baritone does sound nice DGBE too. Get one of each!
 
As mentioned above, it basically it comes down to string tension. I have 17" and 18" tenors and there is a difference in string tension using the same strings. To take it a little further, tension not only drives comfort but also how the soundboard reacts. In some cases, more tension drives more sound in other cases more tension impacts the movement of a soundboard and chokes the sound.

Generally, a properly built ukulele will work for the designed scale length, so it may be a moot point, but to fine tune the sound with different strings it may come into play. This is what I have found after years of a long scale (18") tenor.

John

Edit added: Maybe looking at a long neck sopranos and concerts give a little bit of a perspective in how the sound/feel differs with scale length. I hate to say piercing/focused, but more tension seems to give me that impression.
 
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hollisdwyer said:
I think this was explained in a recent post but I can't find it so would greatly appreciate it if someone could explain why you might choose one scale length over the other. I have a mighty Bari UAS burning a hole in my wallet and want to understand why this size of Uke comes in two very similar scale lengths.

Thanks in advance for any info you can provide.
Click to expand...

Depending on how mighty, and I know you didn't ask...

I regret not buying a Boat Paddle baritone when I had the chance. Also, I recall that the BP baritones could be made in 19" or 20.25" scale and strung with either steel or nylon/fluorocarbon strings.

I don't know if Jerry Hoffman still offers those options, but that would be my first choice.

I've posted this before and it still sticks in my mind...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5vanzPKHbs&nohtml5=False

John
 
I'm happiest with the 19" baritones because of the smaller size and lower tension although your experience may vary. Counterintuitively, the 19" baritone is the one that sounds more mellow, probably because of the lower string tension.

Anthony
 
Thanks for all the answers so far but here's a wiggle. I just received an email about a particular makers baritone and it's scale length is 19 3/4 inch. It seems that there is a variation with baritones that I don't see with sopranos, concerts or tenors (even super versions of those scale lengths). What gives?
 
My off the cuff answer is a question. Why does it matter to you?

Don't take this as a personal slight yet there is a strong streak in humanity which seeks conformity. Now please, DON'T take this the wrong way, my view is that the Devil is simply a MAN who believes that there is ONLY ever ONE way to do things. His way. Any other way of doing things is EVIL.

That was a bit of a tangent. Anyway I've seen 19 1/2" baritones and I own a metric baritone that has a scale length of 480mm which is slightly less than 19".

While I'm at it I have a tenor with a 438mm scale length (about 17 1/4"). 17" converts to metric 431.8mm. Metric tenors are usually 432mm but I've also seen 430mm.

Meh!

Anthony
 
There are oddballs all up and down the line. I know of "longneck sopranos" with 14-3/4", 15", 15.5" and longneck concert with 15-3/4", 16", and 17".

On the baritone front, for me personally, I've found that I don't want to go higher than 19". I had a 20" Lanikai and sold it for a 19" Bruko then sold that for a 19" Ono. In between I also got a 19" Konablaster electric. So I'm set.

But you might like 20" or longer. FWIW,there seems to be a growing trend toward even longer "baritones" now - Pono Nui, the new Pono "tenor guitar" is what, 21"(?), the stock Konablaster is 22" I think.

The wonderful thing about standards is there are so many of them. :p
 
anthonyg said:
My off the cuff answer is a question. Why does it matter to you?

Don't take this as a personal slight yet there is a strong streak in humanity which seeks conformity. Now please, DON'T take this the wrong way, my view is that the Devil is simply a MAN who believes that there is ONLY ever ONE way to do things. His way. Any other way of doing things is EVIL.

That was a bit of a tangent. Anyway I've seen 19 1/2" baritones and I own a metric baritone that has a scale length of 480mm which is slightly less than 19".

While I'm at it I have a tenor with a 438mm scale length (about 17 1/4"). 17" converts to metric 431.8mm. Metric tenors are usually 432mm but I've also seen 430mm.

Meh!

Anthony
Click to expand...

Anthony, no slight taken. It matters to me because I have no experience with that type of instrument and thought that there might be different product attributes between the different scale lengths. One thing that I have learned from the advice given so far is that a 19" has less tension and provides an easier reach than a longer scale length. Are there more differences that people have noticed???
 
hollisdwyer said:
Anthony, no slight taken. It matters to me because I have no experience with that type of instrument and thought that there might be different product attributes between the different scale lengths. One thing that I have learned from the advice given so far is that a 19" has less tension and provides an easier reach than a longer scale length. Are there more differences that people have noticed???
Click to expand...

vintage 19 baris seem to be narrower at the nut than the newer baris.
 
hollisdwyer said:
Anthony, no slight taken. It matters to me because I have no experience with that type of instrument and thought that there might be different product attributes between the different scale lengths. One thing that I have learned from the advice given so far is that a 19" has less tension and provides an easier reach than a longer scale length. Are there more differences that people have noticed???
Click to expand...

Yes I went on a bit off a tangent.

Sometimes thing are just different. Not better, not worse.

I've played both and I prefer 19". You may prefer 20". Its hard sometimes but your better off trying them.

Anthony
 
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I have a Webber, Boat Paddle and a Barron River under consideration. Which ever I decide on, I figure I can't go wrong with this short list.
 
19" is bliss

I have a 20" scale Kamaka baritone and it is a beast. In fact, I watched a video of Kaleo Gamio play a 20" Bari and he looked as if he was struggling with it. I later discovered the
Old Kamaka 19" baritone is just perfect. Plays like a charm.having said that I also picked up a 20" scale Pono baritone and that doesn't feel as clunky as the new Kamaka. So it is possible that the problem is more with the body size rather than the scale length.
 
hollisdwyer said:
I have a Webber, Boat Paddle and a Barron River under consideration. Which ever I decide on, I figure I can't go wrong with this short list.
Click to expand...

So you're trying what to decide to order for a "custom"? In that case, what you should do is get one of those 20" Lanikais from Butler Music and a capo. Play it without the capo and then again with it at the first fret. That'll tell you if it makes a difference to you.
 
Jim Hanks said:
So you're trying what to decide to order for a "custom"? In that case, what you should do is get one of those 20" Lanikais from Butler Music and a capo. Play it without the capo and then again with it at the first fret. That'll tell you if it makes a difference to you.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the suggestion Jim. I am considering both existing Ukes and possibly commissioning one. Would love to find a Mya Moe baritone for sale also. If commissioning, I would not want to wait more than 6-8 months, maybe up to a year but no more. Still, I love the exercise of commissioning an instrument. There is a bond there that buying off the shelf doesn't provide. As I am about to retire, this will most likely be my last indulgence.
 
An alternative with the 20+ baritone scale is to downtune it. I run my lanika down a whole step at CFAD. I've only used my bari for picking and not anything else so its fine at that tuning and very mellow. And yes it does buzz if I play it hard. I am still using the bottom 3 factory strings and a worth brown on the high string, so I could probably do better with new strings.

I'm a cheapskate so the spruce top caramel baritones look like they might be interesting. I'm not that invested in baritone and the lanikai (a butler music one) is fine even though it was a reject (on mine the bridge string spacing is narrower than it should be, almost like they mistakenly used a concert or tenor bridge).

My current (and constantly changing) opinion would be to buy a nice wide neck tenor (1.5" nut) and string it linear Bb or even lower. It seems there are a lot more choices in tenors than baris.
 
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