Lack of voice in my Myrtlewood Concert

UkulelesRcooL

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I strung up the uke with Aquila high Gs...
Got it tuned.. and it really sounded muted.. compared to other ukes I have...
I have a soprano mahogany that my father and I built that had tremendous projection right from the get go..
I used a 3 brace fan pattern on the concert and the sop has just cross braces above and below the sound hole and a bridge patch.
Im thinking I over braced the myrtlewood.
At first I thought it was a matter of a couple of fixes I had to make such as leveling the frets... and repairing a crack on the bridge patch..All of which I did.. and it still sounds muted..
Almost tinny... I didnt shave the braces down enough... left them to square on the tops.. I dont think I can fix this but just chock it up to experience and never do it again.
the braces are mahogany, the bridge patch is spruce.. the bridge is bloodwood with a ebony saddle. Bone nut.. bloodwood fretboard.
Mahogany neck with a myrtlewood body.
Im slightly disappointed:(.. to say the least.. again.. live and learn...
Still have some finishing to do.. had a couple of hick ups and the weather isnt cooperating... Another reason for me to learn how to FPolish...
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Sorry to hear that. Have you tried other tensions? Easiest way is to tune up a half step, then a whole step and see if it comes to life. If not, go a half then a whole step down from standard tuning. If any of these tunings work you can look for strings with higher or lower tensions.
 
I know how you feel. I had a gypsy jazz style uke made by a builder in Vietnam and asked for a solid flame maple top with solid Indian rosewood body. When it arrived, it had the same problem, very little projection and sustain, but it has good tone. Later in a discussion with Pepe Romero, Jr., he said that flame maple is too stiff to be a good top wood, and I think the builder over built it as well. It's really pretty and is a keeper, but live and learn. (This is the second time in as many days I posted this uke.)

Gypsy me.jpg
 
amp it!.............
 
Your uke looks good so I'm sorry to hear that it doesn't sound as good as you had expected.

I suspect that, as you suggest, you have overbuilt this soundboard. It should be as light as possible whilst remaining structurally able to withstand string tension.

As the maker of about 20 instruments, I have but limited experience from which to offer some advice. If you could see the work of others or have someone see you work in progress, that would help more.

2 mm is the rough figure for the soundboard thickness. You will learn to deviate from this depending on the wood. I've found that an instrument with a soundboard which is too thick tends to lack volume.

I've checked your previous posts for info on your build, and can see that you used a bridge patch and 3 fans.

The upper cross brace needs to be substantial as it is structurally important in working with the neck block to prevent the neck being swallowed by the hole. The lower cross brace needs to be much lighter: it has an effect on the sound the instrument produces.

Makers will tend to build with or without a bridge patch-I generally don't as I always use a tie on bridge. I've learned what size fan bracing works for me without a patch: if I add a bridge patch it makes a huge difference to the stiffness of the soundboard and the feel and sound of the instrument. You need to work out what combination works best for you.

If I were making a concert uke, I would use 2 fans and no patch. If I used a patch, I reckon 1 fan would suffice. The fan dimensions are also a matter for discussion. Look at photos here and by Googling to see the finished fans (after paring rather than whats glued to the soundboard).

I prefer a mellower sounding instrument and try to use the minimum of bracing. If I overbuild I find the instrument has too much treble (is this what you mean by sounding tinny?).

Makers use deflection and tap testing to determine whether they've got the soundboard right. It's also possible to adjust this further after the soundboard is added to the box by further sanding the soundboard if it seems to be too stiff.

It may just be the photo, but your bridge looks very thick: if so this will also overstiffen the soundboard.

In summary try to build as light as possible: some signs of bowing behind the bridge or the fans showing through the soundboard are acceptable.
 
..it is still beautiful ukulele and maybe one day it will open?
I made 7 sopranos and each one sounds different in sense of tone and projection. Do not worry - I am sure that it has its own specific character and you will find lots of fun with it:)
 
Sorry to hear that. Have you tried other tensions? Easiest way is to tune up a half step, then a whole step and see if it comes to life. If not, go a half then a whole step down from standard tuning. If any of these tunings work you can look for strings with higher or lower tensions.
Thanks for the advice Sven... Ill check into getting some higher tension strings..
 
I know how you feel. I had a gypsy jazz style uke made by a builder in Vietnam and asked for a solid flame maple top with solid Indian rosewood body. When it arrived, it had the same problem, very little projection and sustain, but it has good tone. Later in a discussion with Pepe Romero, Jr., he said that flame maple is too stiff to be a good top wood, and I think the builder over built it as well. It's really pretty and is a keeper, but live and learn. (This is the second time in as many days I posted this uke.)

Gypsy me.jpg

That is a gorgeous instrument............... Sorry to hear you have to same deal going there.. but it IS BEAUTIFUL!!
 
..it is still beautiful ukulele and maybe one day it will open?
I made 7 sopranos and each one sounds different in sense of tone and projection. Do not worry - I am sure that it has its own specific character and you will find lots of fun with it:)

Thank you for the encouragement.. I hope that it turns out that way.. I built it for my Father... um. in memory of him.. was hoping for a better result.. but as Im seeing here with members input.. it happens and its something Im definitely going to learn from..... It sounds fine.. just doesnt have the volume.. and may have more treble like greenscoe mentioned... I think thats what I was hearing when I referred to it being tinny...
 
Your uke looks good so I'm sorry to hear that it doesn't sound as good as you had expected.

I suspect that, as you suggest, you have overbuilt this soundboard. It should be as light as possible whilst remaining structurally able to withstand string tension.

As the maker of about 20 instruments, I have but limited experience from which to offer some advice. If you could see the work of others or have someone see you work in progress, that would help more.

2 mm is the rough figure for the soundboard thickness. You will learn to deviate from this depending on the wood. I've found that an instrument with a soundboard which is too thick tends to lack volume.

I've checked your previous posts for info on your build, and can see that you used a bridge patch and 3 fans.

The upper cross brace needs to be substantial as it is structurally important in working with the neck block to prevent the neck being swallowed by the hole. The lower cross brace needs to be much lighter: it has an effect on the sound the instrument produces.

Makers will tend to build with or without a bridge patch-I generally don't as I always use a tie on bridge. I've learned what size fan bracing works for me without a patch: if I add a bridge patch it makes a huge difference to the stiffness of the soundboard and the feel and sound of the instrument. You need to work out what combination works best for you.

If I were making a concert uke, I would use 2 fans and no patch. If I used a patch, I reckon 1 fan would suffice. The fan dimensions are also a matter for discussion. Look at photos here and by Googling to see the finished fans (after paring rather than whats glued to the soundboard).

I prefer a mellower sounding instrument and try to use the minimum of bracing. If I overbuild I find the instrument has too much treble (is this what you mean by sounding tinny?).

Makers use deflection and tap testing to determine whether they've got the soundboard right. It's also possible to adjust this further after the soundboard is added to the box by further sanding the soundboard if it seems to be too stiff.

It may just be the photo, but your bridge looks very thick: if so this will also overstiffen the soundboard.

In summary try to build as light as possible: some signs of bowing behind the bridge or the fans showing through the soundboard are acceptable.


Definitely over built.. I also have a sound hole patch I forgot to reference... :uhoh:... The plans I built from gave an option of 2 or 3 fan braces.. I should have done the 2.. and then thicknessed them down as well as you have mentioned in making the lower horizontal brace lighter.... I used the bridge patch due to the pin bridge but you are right it is thick.. I will have to play around with lightening things up all around if I do another concert...

I would say as you have suggested that it has alot of treble rather than tinny as I said...
 
You can easily reduce the mass of the bridge. Remove material by sloping the back and make the wings thinners. That should help. Protect the top and work with chisel, rasp, sand paper.

Worst case, you can route the binding from the back, remove it and rework the top braces. If your neck is bolted you can do that on the top instead.
This is a fair amount of work, but it can save the instrument.
 
For some unknown reason, I am not able to add to the answer I gave above, so I'll add new info hear.

Also, since this looks like a pin bridge design, the bridge patch is a good idea but it should be made of a hardwood like Mahogany, not spruce because spruce will wear quickly and soon the end of the string knot or string bead will wear through to the top wood plate, which is not what you want.
 
You can easily reduce the mass of the bridge. Remove material by sloping the back and make the wings thinners. That should help. Protect the top and work with chisel, rasp, sand paper.

Worst case, you can route the binding from the back, remove it and rework the top braces. If your neck is bolted you can do that on the top instead.
This is a fair amount of work, but it can save the instrument.
The bridge adjustment you recommend is definitely doable... probably the easiest to do...
I dovetailed and glued the neck.. so... routing the back would be the option there.. but I think would be my last resort...
That would definitely fix the problem.. as I would be able to shave down everything I left too thick..
I thought about this first.. but.. Im cautiously wary of mucking it up... so Ill try everything else I can before resorting to that.
 
Thanks for the tip BlackBearUkes... I used what I had.. thinking the mahogany would be stronger... as you stated in the comment about the bridge patch..
In the future Ill use the spruce... I see that alot of ppl are using mahogany kerfing now instead of the bass wood or whatever they use so I thought since that was the case, that going to mahogany braces would be in improvement too. Wouldnt mahogany be ok if you used a thin enough piece? I would think so but Im no expert.. In this case I should have shaved them down alot more than I did..
I have purchased some mahogany just for using it on the bridge patches in the future... I agree with your suggestion... I didnt have the material to use at the moment of the build and went with what I had..
 
You put Aquila High g on an overbraced instrument and stated that it sounds tinny like that shouldn't have been the expectation.

+1 to what Duane said, both times.

If I were to suggest the one thing you should address, right now, is the bridge patch. Of course, in changing out the bridge patch, you'll take care of all your other issues. Problem right now is, that's your weak link, regardless of how the instrument sounds.

On a side note, I don't get how learning to FP would solve issues as opposed to introducing new one, specifically long term ones.

On another side note to Kohanmike, you have a tailpiece on a nylon strung instrument. That is the beginning of your volume issues. Since you know it could be improved, try some steels. Most tailpiece ukulele I've heard have low volume, by design. Raven from Maui does a pretty good job. 3rd side note: you either have twin, or you play bass too?
 
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I've got one hanging on the wall like that (no volume due to being overbuilt) it was my first one ...I just forgot about it and put it down as a learning curve..and built another and then another and still learning 6 years later...I find it's quicker and less stressful to start again making another..instead of trying to fix a bad one.
 
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