PDA

View Full Version : Question for sellers (inside)



Booli
07-05-2016, 09:49 AM
Sorry if this is in the wrong section, but it is related to selling here in the Marketplace, so I was hoping that was the best place for this, even though it is not an actual item for sale. Mods feel free to relocate if necessary. :)


Why do sellers delete the price after an instrument is sold?

Is there some policy here on UU that requires this, or is it just some odd habit that keeps getting copied like monkey-see/monkey-do?

Why not leave the price? What harm does it do to you?

What is the thinking behind sellers cutting out the price, or even deleting all the text and photos in the first place? Is not CLOSING the thread enough for a seller?

Why HIDE the details of the sale? Is it for SHAME?

I'd think that having a historical perspective of resale values of the more popular ukes would be of a GREAT service to FUTURE sellers as WELL AS buyers, seeing what market value has been over time.

Otherwise, what is the magic formula for pricing a used uke for sale here in the Marketplace.

So folks PLEASE chime in here. I am not the only one who has complained about the details of completed sales being obfuscated after the transaction has ended.

Mahalo,

Booli :)

Futurethink
07-05-2016, 09:52 AM
+1 for leaving the final price visible.

JonThysell
07-05-2016, 10:01 AM
Monkey-see, monkey-do is why I've done it. We couldn't always close threads right? So it's probably just an old hang-over to make sure that it's clear that the uke is gone.

+1 on keeping the price though. It would be interesting to be able to look at the uke resale market trends.

Booli
07-05-2016, 10:11 AM
... We couldn't always close threads right?...

The date this thread was created:

http://forum.ukuleleunderground.com/showthread.php?59023-Hey-Everyone!-You-can-CLOSE-your-own-quot-For-Sale-quot-threads-when-your-item-sells-now!

was January 17, 2012

which is even before I started on UU in April of 2013, so not sure about the hold-over

It just seems to me an odd thing to be protective of the sale price AFTER the transaction. It's not a sealed-envelope bid for a million smackers, after which the tax man cometh to extract his pound of flesh, so it just seems against the aloha, shaka and openness that exists most of the time here on UU for the sellers to modify the original post, with either omitting the price, or replacing ALL the text and pictures with a giant bold red

SOLD

It just seems like lots more effort to edit the first post, than putting a post saying "SOLD - thanks" and then after posting that, and then just after to hit the close button.

It's not like you are reducing the burden on the forum database either, since all EDITS to posts are saved historically and forever, for legal reasons...yes, the mods can see ALL deleted text and edited posts.

stevejfc
07-05-2016, 10:16 AM
Interesting question(s). I'm not sure of the answer................prehaps the final sale price differs from the advertised price. Substituting "SOLD" instead of the asking price eliminates exposing the final discounted or agreed upon price. Maybe both the buyer and seller would like to keep that confidential. Of course it gets more complicated when it's cash plus trade. Just guessing here folks.

Croaky Keith
07-05-2016, 10:20 AM
It could be interesting to see what went for how much over a period of time, so I guess I'm in agreement. :)

Booli
07-05-2016, 10:26 AM
@Futurethink, @JonThysell, @stevejfc, @uke1950

Thanks for your replies and comments - please keep going...I am interested in what others here on UU think and feel about this topic...

deschutestrout
07-05-2016, 10:31 AM
I would guess it's because the final, haggled-over sale price was different from asking. Final sale price would be nice to see, but if negotiations occur, final sale price is the seller's and buyer's biz.

good_uke_boy
07-05-2016, 10:42 AM
FYI, past discussion:
http://forum.ukuleleunderground.com/showthread.php?106421-Marketplace-Completed-Sales-Editing-Debauchery

cml
07-05-2016, 11:00 AM
Each to their own, but I'd leave the price as it was in the OP.

SoloRule
07-05-2016, 11:29 AM
May be seller wants to protect the buyer in case the uke is being re listed in the forum by the buyer?

Booli
07-05-2016, 12:05 PM
FYI, past discussion:
http://forum.ukuleleunderground.com/showthread.php?106421-Marketplace-Completed-Sales-Editing-Debauchery

I did search, but had not seen this. Thanks for including the link here. Sorry if this topic is being rehashed again.

I was not actually thinking of holding sellers to posting the final sale price since maybe that could/should be private as others have said, but the asking price, and/or any reductions until the sale is complete, could be useful info to folks in the future who want to EITHER buy OR sell the same or similar uke.

I mean, if I want to sell something on eBay, I look at both CURRENT auctions, as well as COMPLETED auctions to get an idea of value, and if it is even worth the hassle, by the time that eBay and PayPal suck their fees out of the sale, if there is any money left over.

I know it's not the same, and instruments are quite different in how the Hive Mind has it's desires worked out in reality of the marketplace, ANY marketplace...

Sorry if I've annoyed anyone by bringing up this subject since this was discussed previously. In that previous discussion there were quite a few polarized opinions, as there are here...

so it seems so far that there is not really any consensus...and that is fine...I'm just trying to understand the psychology of it all and what folks think is at stake that motivates them to wipe out the first post and put that big fat SOLD in it's place with no other info at all.

Maybe it's just me, but I get a little offended that all the info is removed. I mean UU is a fully public forum save for PM's, so why not have transparency?

igorthebarbarian
07-05-2016, 01:15 PM
My guess is because if the price is up, people will still email and say "Hey is it still for sale?"
But if the SOLD is there where the price is, then they'll quickly realize it's sold.
Having that $300 there, your eyes instinctively go for that right away, regardless of where it is. So seeing it, and especially if it's a good deal, is going to lead to people skipping by the "sold" part and the "closed thread" part to ask about it.
I do think Closing the thread, but leaving the price would be better.
Or maybe start writing out the amount it sold for (three hundred is less easy to spot than the $300)

bunnyf
07-05-2016, 01:34 PM
I think that unknowingly, I have been on all different sides of this issue. I've looked back for posts on certain ukes for a sold price, just to get an idea of the recent past market, only to find prices deleted and really wished I had that info. Knowing what things have sold for is very valuable to know when you are shopping for anything, not just ukes. I'm sure I have overpaid relative to the current market values, for lack of good research. I've also sold things where I'd rather have the price deleted after its sold. I'll give you an example. I had a concert flea in fine condition, that I just didn't play. I picked it up used on CL and got a good price. When I went to sell it, I put it up for a very reasonable price like $75-100. Needless to say, it sold immediately. I felt like I had my fun with it and I don't need to make a killing. I got my money's worth. I'd rather have the good karma of passing on the bargain. I can understand that if you let something go at below market value, you'd rather not have people think that your SOLD price is what a comparable uke is really worth. The flea was a really nice, well-made instrument and I wouldn't want subsequent sellers (or buyers) to think that their instrument wasn't worth more when they are looking to make a deal. I'm not sure though but I don't think I've ever delete a price. I don't think so. I sold several ukes, in my journey to find what things suit me best and I think all that I've ever done is just close my thread. I did notice that on FMM marketplace, it is commonplace to remove the price when a uke is sold. I think this may be the one place where I may have removed the price and I think that it was because I saw others do it, but mainly because I thought it was the fastest or easiest way so show item was sold by just editing out the price w/ the word sold. Now, in retrospect, I believe I could have simply clicked on something that would have placed that sold banner on the ad without removing any info. I think that leaving info alone, in general, is a good idea. It's certainly helpful to folks either out there shopping or UUers looking to thin their herd. I do respect folk's right to privacy though regarding financial negotiation and transactions.

Kayak Jim
07-05-2016, 01:43 PM
Removing the price after the sale is also common on Flea Market Music and I never understood it there either. I've bought a couple of ukes here in the market place and it didn't matter a fig to me if the seller left the asking price up or not (which may of may not have been the selling price)

perep
07-05-2016, 02:23 PM
Just mark sold in the REPLY TO THREAD , everyone understands this & the price sold at is still undisclosed

BlackBearUkes
07-05-2016, 02:33 PM
I have always just marked the instrument as sold, and leave the selling price as it is listed. Deleting all the info and price always seemed weird to me.

Inksplosive AL
07-05-2016, 02:41 PM
My first Risa stick I wish I had found the previous sales thread before paying $50 more for a worn instrument. The frets were terrible and since there is a small knot in the fret area its an easy stick to distinguish without the serial number.

I think its OK as is being sellers choice if they want to disclose the selling or even asking price if not delete the whole thread itself. I do not discuss the price of any of my clients tattoos with anyone but the client. I also will not price someones tattoo done by another. If they discuss it with me my answer is usually a very honest well I would have charged you more but done it in less time and/or very different than the other artist. But I'm babbling now on a subject I have more knowledge on.

Once many years ago when someone saw a tattoo the first thing you asked was who did it. This changed to "How Much" did it cost? Which is really quite rude. When I'm asked I quickly start asking how much they spend on takeout or their hair or nails. hehe

~AL~

M!!
07-05-2016, 04:57 PM
Why HIDE the details of the sale? Is it for SHAME?


Why CAPS those words?

bonesigh
07-05-2016, 06:24 PM
I've also wondered why the prices were sometimes deleted. Sometimes I've gone back to the market place to look up how much "I" payed for a uke, as I have forgotten! Only to find the price gone ): LOL!

Camsuke
07-05-2016, 07:32 PM
Sorry if this is in the wrong section, but it is related to selling here in the Marketplace, so I was hoping that was the best place for this, even though it is not an actual item for sale. Mods feel free to relocate if necessary. :)


Why do sellers delete the price after an instrument is sold?

Is there some policy here on UU that requires this, or is it just some odd habit that keeps getting copied like monkey-see/monkey-do?

Why not leave the price? What harm does it do to you?

What is the thinking behind sellers cutting out the price, or even deleting all the text and photos in the first place? Is not CLOSING the thread enough for a seller?

Why HIDE the details of the sale? Is it for SHAME?

I'd think that having a historical perspective of resale values of the more popular ukes would be of a GREAT service to FUTURE sellers as WELL AS buyers, seeing what market value has been over time.

Otherwise, what is the magic formula for pricing a used uke for sale here in the Marketplace.

So folks PLEASE chime in here. I am not the only one who has complained about the details of completed sales being obfuscated after the transaction has ended.

Mahalo,

Booli :)


Hi Booli,

I suppose you could always "Reply With Quote" to the original listing. This would at least capture the starting price. And so on...for further price reductions. It does seem unnecessary to delete the final sale price, I've never really understood why it happens.

bearbike137
07-06-2016, 03:46 AM
I always delete the price of items I sell. Why?

1) Often the final negotiated price differs from my listing price.
2) It's a private transaction. If the new owner wants everyone to know what he paid for the uke, they can start their own thread.

Booli
07-06-2016, 04:26 AM
Hey folks...

Thanks all for sharing your thoughts here.

I am grateful for your contributions, and am better able to understand some of the reasons now.

Please, feel free to discuss further and add to the conversation any other thoughts or related ideas...

Mahalo - Booli :)

Stevelele
07-06-2016, 04:57 AM
I delete my prices mainly because I don't really want to influence the market for a uke that I'm selling. I find that prices are sooo erratic--sometimes I have had to reduce prices to such a low amount because I happen to be selling during a dry period--the last thing I want to do is establish that as a price for that uke, particularly when I think that I'm selling way under market. I would rather have people determine prices based on the normal retail prices and applying a standard discount for a used uke.

Futurethink
07-06-2016, 05:17 AM
I delete my prices mainly because I don't really want to influence the market for a uke that I'm selling. I find that prices are sooo erratic--sometimes I have had to reduce prices to such a low amount because I happen to be selling during a dry period--the last thing I want to do is establish that as a price for that uke, particularly when I think that I'm selling way under market.
That sounds rational.


I would rather have people determine prices based on the normal retail prices and applying a standard discount for a used uke.
What is the standard discount for a used 'ukulele? Not rhetorical, I'm asking because I'd like to know.

2nd question; Don't some 'ukuleles rise in value when the model is discontinued, or when it is built by a renowned luthier? That happens in the guitar market, but I've seen protests here for asking a higher-than-original price. Maybe this question needs to be in a new thread.

I wish manufacturers would keep an archive page for discontinued models. It would help when checking specifications, and retail/street prices when new.

Booli
07-06-2016, 05:35 AM
What is the standard discount for a used 'ukulele? Not rhetorical, I'm asking because I'd like to know.

Me too. I'd like to know, like for example say the uke is still available and current price from Uke Republic is $300, and your used uke you want to sell has some tiny dings but no structural issues, what price do you start at? How to you calculate that price?

Also, lets say you are the buyer of a used uke that has had only one previous owner, and now, some yrs later, YOU want to sell it, do you start your calculations at the price that YOU paid when you bought it used, and then figure whatever magical depreciation to come up with the sale price (as per above) or do you take an 'arbitrary' discount from the current retail price and then modify that by some amount to account for this uke now being sold by you as the SECOND, or even THIRD owner?


I wish manufacturers would keep an archive page for discontinued models. It would help when checking specifications, and retail/street prices when new.

Both Kala and Ohana are notorious for DELETING discontinued models from their web sites.

In the guitar world, I've seen Gibson, Epiphone and Fender guilty of this practice as well.

I find it detrimental to long-term customer support of older products to DELETE the specifications pages from the web site, they should just move it to a section called DISCONTINUED in the SUPPORT area, if they dont want to distract folks from the new shiny products, no? Once you've paid for the web hosting, disk space and domain name, a few more html pages dont really cost anything extra, and to pay a web developer for the 10 mins of time to edit the code to reflect the changes, and then another 10 mins of time for testing on the dev. server is not going to break the bank. They only really have to do it maybe 1-2 times per yr when new products come out at NAMM and old products are deprecated at the same time.

Anyway - sorry for the off topic...

Stevelele
07-06-2016, 05:58 AM
well it depends, but absent special circumstances, my guess is that you're looking at around 25%-30% under retail. If it's a rare or high demand uke, then that throws things off completely and the price could remain the same as retail or even go up. I know someone here was trying to sell santa cruz guitar company concert ukes for $2500 or so--that's well above what the retail value was when they were selling, but they discontinued the model, so I think he's justifying the sale price because of that. But I think he had trouble selling them, because even though the ukes are very good, not that many people know about them and the demand wasn't nearly as high as a Moore Bettah, for example. Other things that might affect selling price are condition of the uke, how old it is, the overall popularity of that uke, market conditions, who is selling it, etc etc.


That sounds rational.


What is the standard discount for a used 'ukulele? Not rhetorical, I'm asking because I'd like to know.

2nd question; Don't some 'ukuleles rise in value when the model is discontinued, or when it is built by a renowned luthier? That happens in the guitar market, but I've seen protests here for asking a higher-than-original price. Maybe this question needs to be in a new thread.

I wish manufacturers would keep an archive page for discontinued models. It would help when checking specifications, and retail/street prices when new.

morris3640
07-06-2016, 06:02 AM
Good point. I did that as well but more from a monkey see monkey do perspective. I thought that was the proper thing to do.

Snargle
07-06-2016, 06:11 AM
Booli, thank you for bringing this up for discussion. I commented on this issue on a previous thread (http://forum.ukuleleunderground.com/showthread.php?59023-Hey-Everyone!-You-can-CLOSE-your-own-quot-For-Sale-quot-threads-when-your-item-sells-now!&p=1810201#post1810201), and I am firmly in the camp of leaving the selling price in the closed sale thread. If buying or selling an instrument, I would like to know what the true market is for that particular instrument. This is particularly true for mass-produced instruments. I can understand that the selling price for a one-off, luthier made, custom ukulele isn't particularly useful for a newbie-to-intermediate player, but for someone just coming into the game, it's extremely valuable data.

cml
07-06-2016, 06:34 AM
well it depends, but absent special circumstances, my guess is that you're looking at around 25%-30% under retail. If it's a rare or high demand uke, then that throws things off completely and the price could remain the same as retail or even go up. I know someone here was trying to sell santa cruz guitar company concert ukes for $2500 or so--that's well above what the retail value was when they were selling, but they discontinued the model, so I think he's justifying the sale price because of that. But I think he had trouble selling them, because even though the ukes are very good, not that many people know about them and the demand wasn't nearly as high as a Moore Bettah, for example. Other things that might affect selling price are condition of the uke, how old it is, the overall popularity of that uke, market conditions, who is selling it, etc etc.
I think 25% is too little, when you factor in shipping you're getting close to the retail price unless it's a very expensive uke. Probably around 40-50% off is more reasonable. Remember ukes costs alot to ship. And unless it's a rare uke, do ukes really hold value like lenses for photography (an example). My guess is no. I currently have a sell ad in which Im below half of what I bought my uke for. While there's been some interest, no firm deal as of yet. And, mind you, this isnt some cheap laminate, but a solid koa uke. Just doesnt happen to be a K brand...

JonThysell
07-06-2016, 08:15 AM
This is all in good timing, as I'm thinking of reducing my own collection by about half. Guess I'll have to leave the prices in the threads so I can help set the market. :)

Joyful Uke
07-06-2016, 09:06 AM
I may try to sell a ukulele here in the future, and if so, it would be helpful to have some data on what would be a reasonable starting price for the sale. So, +1 in favor of keeping the prices shown for sold items.

There was one ukulele in the marketplace that I was very interested in, but 2 things kept me from making an offer. No sound sample, (person declined to post one), and also I thought that the price was too high. But, I have no idea if the price is reasonable or not, since I have nothing to compare it to. If I saw that previous similiar ukuleles sold for the same price, (or close to it), maybe I would have gone for it.

Booli
07-06-2016, 09:53 AM
This is all in good timing, as I'm thinking of reducing my own collection by about half. Guess I'll have to leave the prices in the threads so I can help set the market. :)

Really? That would be so great of you.

The UU Hive Mind thanks you for your compliance. :)

bearbike137
07-06-2016, 10:34 AM
I am firmly in the camp of leaving the selling price in the closed sale thread. If buying or selling an instrument, I would like to know what the true market is for that particular instrument.

But that assumes that the asking price is the "true market". Often (motivated seller, best offer, insane buyer, ha ha) that is not the case.

Snargle
07-06-2016, 10:50 AM
But that assumes that the asking price is the "true market". Often (motivated seller, best offer, insane buyer, ha ha) that is not the case.

True, but multiple sales of the same (or similar) instruments will tend to balance the outliers (the outrageously overpriced or the freak bargains).

ubulele
07-06-2016, 12:30 PM
I think 25% is too little, when you factor in shipping you're getting close to the retail price unless it's a very expensive uke. Probably around 40-50% off is more reasonable. Remember ukes costs alot to ship.

This is why I first try selling locally: shipping might require that I sell for too little--I don't cater to bargain hunters. I consider expecting a 40-50% discount rather unreasonable--I only need one buyer who recognizes worth. The people expecting hefty discounts typically don't appreciate what they're getting; I'd rather sell to someone who does, who's looking for the right instrument rather than a hot deal.

Moreover, used ukes are usually better than new ones, because they have seasoned some already, and may be better set up than from most vendors. The seller may have made other improvements or may include extras, which should also be factored in. Certainly great bargains on nice instruments can be found with enough patience, but you often pass up better value, buck for buck, when you put discount first.

TheCraftedCow
07-07-2016, 11:42 AM
I have several instruments which I have bought from people at the price they were asking. The $20.00 balalaika still sells new at close to $900.00 This one came back from Germany in 1945.
The 1929 DoBro claro walnut bodied resonator mandolin (now tuned GgCcEeAa, in the original case which was bought in Bend ,Oregon in 1931 was sold to me for $275...but since I only had 20's, I paid $280. I was offered $3500 from a well respected name in dealerships. with full disclosute that theywould again resell it somewhere between $7000 to 10,000 stateside, and between $15,000 and 20,000 if they opened it to the Asian market. There is a difference between price and value. I have an Indonesian bowlbacked Baroqulele of Lacewood and Rosewood. The sound hole was laser carved. It is slotted head, so I took out the crummy wooden pegs and installed PEGHEDS. Listed price was348.95. There was no minimum bid, at at an hour to go on SuperBowl Sunday with a $36.00 high bid and an hour to go, I won the bid at $66.00. Does an instrument's history account for any added value? Trying to establish a BlueBook price for each and every ukulele of the same brand would be an impossible task. Trying to say all ukes of a certain age, certain wood, certain whatever has any bearing on another similar instrument is absurd.

Booli
07-07-2016, 11:54 AM
... Trying to say all ukes of a certain age, certain wood, certain whatever has any bearing on another similar instrument is absurd.

But WHY do you feel this is absurd? I do not understand. Please clarify, if you will.

warndt
07-07-2016, 01:24 PM
Mods...Shouldn't this thread be moved from the marketplace, instead of continually bumping everyone down on the list?

I tried to stay out of this, however we are now getting into the debate stage on this subject.

UKE TALK ANYONE?

TheCraftedCow
07-08-2016, 05:20 AM
Why absurd? Physical location; An instrument from Yuma, AZ has had a drier life than one from York, Pa. If humidity isn't a concern, why do some have humidifiers in their cases?How often has an instrument been left in a hot vehicle? Hard case -- soft case-- no case? Exposure to direct sunlight? Range of temperature change? Even two of the same instruments can have a different value caused by their Latitude/Longitude location. Physical condition:Length of fretting fingernails shows on a fretboard. Was it played with fingers or finger picks or flat picked? There are other considerations which determine value.. I have just chosen two as examples of why prices for the same thing may have a wide variation. Think of the many questions which should be asked about buying a motorcycle.... just because it is a Harley doesn't make it have value any more than another make, or even another Harley of the same age and model.

Booli
07-08-2016, 08:12 AM
Why absurd? Physical location; An instrument from Yuma, AZ has had a drier life than one from York, Pa. If humidity isn't a concern, why do some have humidifiers in their cases?How often has an instrument been left in a hot vehicle? Hard case -- soft case-- no case? Exposure to direct sunlight? Range of temperature change? Even two of the same instruments can have a different value caused by their Latitude/Longitude location. Physical condition:Length of fretting fingernails shows on a fretboard. Was it played with fingers or finger picks or flat picked? There are other considerations which determine value.. I have just chosen two as examples of why prices for the same thing may have a wide variation. Think of the many questions which should be asked about buying a motorcycle.... just because it is a Harley doesn't make it have value any more than another make, or even another Harley of the same age and model.

This is very interesting.

I was not aware of these issues being a concern in the manner that you have described here.

Thank you for your comments. :)

DownUpDave
07-09-2016, 01:20 AM
I always remove the price and will continue to do so in the future. It is a private matter between buyer and seller.

There are too many varibles as bearbike and stevelele pointed out. The season you sell it in will dictate how much people are WILLING to pay. Example, people have more money to spend when they have tax refunds in hand. Compare this to the begining of Feburary when the Christmas credit card bills start coming, people are broke. This has nothing to do with what an instrument is worth and everything to do with what people can afford.

The preceived condition of an instrument can vary from one person to another. A few small nicks on the body binding might be nothing to me but a real turn off to you. Now you are going to offer me less because of that BUT John Doe will buy it at asking price because he thinks it is a fair price. A Kamaka will retain it value better than a Kala. My general rule of thumb is 20% - 40% below retail depending on make and condition.

Because there are so many elements that determine the sold price leaving it up serves NO purpose in determining the value of the next similar instrument being sold by someone else at some other time of the year in some other condition.

sam13
07-09-2016, 02:51 AM
I agree with Dave.

stevejfc
07-09-2016, 04:23 AM
I agree with Dave.
Me too.....

Ernie
07-09-2016, 04:58 AM
Same here. Well said, Dave.

Booli
07-09-2016, 08:07 AM
First, let me thank you all for your contributions here to this thread. I am grateful for the civilized conversation.

Second, it seems that opinions are still varied, and as such I suspect that the post-sale process of leaving vs. deleting the price will ALSO vary.

Third, since this is a Marketplace thread, and I created it, I can also close it, which is what I will do after posting this message.

I'd prefer to have this encapsulated discussion preserved as-is before it potentially disintegrates into something bad, which can happen when folks feel strongly about something but all have differing opinions on the matter.

Having said all the above, feel free to PM me at any time, or alternately create your own thread to discuss any of this further.

Mahalo,

Booli