Fan frets?

Doc_J

Doc_J

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Recently saw a uke built with fan frets. A few claims were made about the benefits of fan frets.

“Fan fret ukuleles are characterized by a multi-scale fingerboard and off set frets that extend from the neck of the ukulele at an angle. This is in contrast to the standard perpendicular arrangement of the frets. Proponents of this style of ukulele claim ergonomic benefits, better intonation as well as better control of tension of the strings. This old method of frets positioning provides to each string its natural scale length, thus achieving better intonation of the whole string set. The fan fret ukulele has straight frets which are aligned in a non-parallel pattern. The fan fret ukulele has an increased scale length on it’s G, C and E strings when measured between the nut and the saddle. The aim of this design is to even the tone and tension of all four strings.”


Does anybody here on UU play or ever played a fan fretted uke?
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Glad you opened this topic, Hodge, because it's something we've speculated about doing.

Our view of this sort of design is that it's a disaster with any standard string set. With a set designed for the variable scales, however, it could be very, very nice. We, of course, are in a position to design strings to match a variable scale.

So - I'm wondering - how many of you would consider any instrument that required specific sets of strings (maybe in a couple of tensions) to function properly - strings that came only from the maker. After all, the angle and varied scale lenghts aren't to any standard. That's how a design of this sort reaches its full potential.
 
Inksplosive AL said:
Nothing but the quest for perfect intonation....
Click to expand...

Al, I went through those links (quickly, I admit) and didn't see any evidence of anyone grasping the true concept of this design. There were useful andectotes on the ergonomics - that's all I saw.

There aren't great advantages in intonation with fan frets on an Ukulele - the strings don't vary in diameter as much as they do on a guitar. It can make things a bit easier, but typical Ukulele string diameters can be compensated without going to all this effort. The difference comes in the sound. This arrangement is for a Linear set-up, and can give you a stronger, fuller treble and a crisper clearer bass - in other words more balance in tone.

Wickepedia doesn't get it entirely either, but in their article on Ralph Novak they quote him directly, and if you only read what he says (not Wicki's interpretation) then you get a little idea of how the sound is affected.

So back to the original question:

southcoastukes said:
how many of you would consider any instrument that required specific sets of strings (maybe in a couple of tensions) to function properly - strings that came only from the maker. After all, the angle and varied scale lenghts aren't to any standard. That's how a design of this sort reaches its full potential.
Click to expand...
 
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I see it as a gimmick like glow under black light tattoos. Honestly. Interesting fun to look at but a gimmick all the same.

Like new fangled tattoo machines, trying to build a better mousetrap.
 
Personally, no I wouldn't want one, too much hassle to get next to no improvement over what we already have, & as you say, we would be tied in to one particular manufacturer for strings.

We each like a different tone, that's why we have so many different types of strings already. :)
 
I can't decide if my own lack of enthusiasm is born out of healthy skepticism or plain old knee-jerk Luddism. Possibly a little of both.

I'd be interested in playing around on a uke with fan frets, mostly just to satisfy personal curiosity. But I can't imagine bothering to own one unless there was a real "wow" factor in terms of benefits gained. As far as only being able to use one dedicated string set - it's hard to imagine owning an instrument that I couldn't waste time and money trying umpteen different string combinations on :p
 
Practicality and ergonomics aside, am I the only one who thinks this is an ugly design?
 
southcoastukes said:
Glad you opened this topic, Hodge, because it's something we've speculated about doing.

Our view of this sort of design is that it's a disaster with any standard string set. With a set designed for the variable scales, however, it could be very, very nice. We, of course, are in a position to design strings to match a variable scale.

So - I'm wondering - how many of you would consider any instrument that required specific sets of strings (maybe in a couple of tensions) to function properly - strings that came only from the maker. After all, the angle and varied scale lenghts aren't to any standard. That's how a design of this sort reaches its full potential.
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Dirk, thank you for discussing the issue of string sets for fan fretted ukes. The problem of using standard uke strings didn't occur to me. But, it makes a lot of good sense that specially designed string sets would be best. If I owned a fan fretted ukulele I would definitely buy specifically designed strings, if they existed. Many custom builders recommend specific sets of strings for their instruments. In fact many instruments are built with specific strings in mind. If an instrument had great sound and playability, I wouldn't let the issue of having to buy specific string sets prevent me from buying it. Consider the U-BASS, only has 3 sets (that I know of) available.

Aside from strings, I question the ergonomic benefit ( especially when looking at the first couple of frets).
 
southcoastukes said:
Our view of this sort of design is that it's a disaster with any standard string set....how many of you would consider any instrument that required specific sets of strings...strings that came only from the maker.
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Absolutely not. "Proprietary" is almost never a good thing. This looks like a solution in search of a problem. If you want a multi-scale neck, I would think the moveable bridge designs like on electric guitars or even the Lanikai TunaUke would get you most (if not all) these benefits without the WTF factor.
 
Watching Kimo Hussey play this one made me feel like I was going to fall over.


https://vimeo.com/107364472

Andrew Kitakis bought and subsequently sold it. In his write-up he talks about the ergonomic benefits and how the design allows for a more balanced tension across the strings. Plus it makes an unwound low G string a realistic possibility, due to the increased tension of the longer scale length of the basses.

http://www.theukulelesite.com/blueweed-custom-fan-fret-tenor.html
 
For me, I don't think it's a matter of ergonomics. I think it's something that would take a lot of getting used to before its comfortable.

If it only took one string set, that would be a negative to me. But really, I don't think that's the case in a practical sense. String diameters are not really so different. And the math behind the strings.. should still work with exception of the "off set" of the stiffness at the ends, which unless there's some major construction differences, I think would be fairly minimal. Sting set intonation, isn't different on standard fretting. It's there in the exact same way it would be for a fan fret. Think about all the sets that are "one set" for sop/concert/tenor. That's scale difference, but really we dont have to change anything for that.

The thing about fan frets on a uke... is most people play re-entrant. Fan frets are counter productive in a re-entrant tuning.

The tone difference between a tenor, and a concert, is because of scale difference. Gererally, tenors are fuller on the low end because they're longer scale, and a concert is brighter/twinkly on the high end because it's shorter scale. A fan fretted tenor would bridge that because the bass would be longer and the treble would be shorter, so the overall effect would get the best of both worlds.

But on re-entrant, the 4 string is between the 1 and 2 in pitch, which defeats that purpose. So, if you build a fan fretted uke, it would be meant to be linear tuning, which knocks out a very large percentage of your customers. Personally.. I prefer low G, so that's fine with me.

From a custom stand point.. it could be worthwhile. From a commercial standpoint.. no.
 
Jim Hanks said:
Absolutely not. "Proprietary" is almost never a good thing. This looks like a solution in search of a problem. If you want a multi-scale neck, I would think the moveable bridge designs like on electric guitars or even the Lanikai TunaUke would get you most (if not all) these benefits without the WTF factor.
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Jim, as long there are a range of available single classical guitar strings, there are always other options for unusual strings. :)

geetee said:
...

https://vimeo.com/107364472

Andrew Kitakis bought and subsequently sold it. In his write-up he talks about the ergonomic benefits and how the design allows for a more balanced tension across the strings. Plus it makes an unwound low G string a realistic possibility, due to the increased tension of the longer scale length of the basses.

http://www.theukulelesite.com/blueweed-custom-fan-fret-tenor.html
Click to expand...


Thanks for the link. That Blueweed fan fret sounded really good. But, not sure how much of the sound quality is from the build and how much is due to the fan fret design.

Andrew did say this tenor had "a great feel and the tone," and the "best string balance I've ever experienced". I value Andrew's opinion on ukes.
 
I also would have no problem with a specialized or single maker string set. That said, the benefits, if any, from a fan fret setup are not anything that I find appealing and/or necessary. I can though see some possible benefits for those with physical disabilities, ............ie: that the ergonomics may ease pain or improve playability.
 
I'm not sure my mind could handle the fan fret design. I'm afraid it would go into pseudo "tripping" mode! ;-)
 
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