I read a comment in a string thread (which I can no longer find) where the comment was made that Nylon strings are very susceptible to going out of tune due to weather and humidity. Anybody know anything about this. I just tried T2 Titanium strings but D'Addario and they go sharpe a lot when I play. They sound good and it's only a few cents. I'm more used to strings going flat. Weather is hot here right now. Anybody know the theory on this. Why?
Nylon strings going sharpe
- Thread starter M3Ukulele
- Start date
Strings in tune when open, but then going sharp as you fret, and getting worse as your go up the neck is practically the definition of an intonation problem.
Did you change strings recently?
You uke might be intonated for a different set, as strings of different thicknesses, and tensions will cause the intonation of the instrument to change overall.
Has a setup ever been done on this instrument, i.e., adjustments to the NUT and SADDLE?
Also if your strings are being pinched in the nut slots, when you tune, you are not getting the direct pull of the strings to tune up, and over time, the string tension from the tuner to the nut, eventually evens out whereby it pulls the string through the slot after a few hours, and then when you thought you were 'at pitch', now the strings have settled 'sharp'....
In the end it is usually an easy fix but there are at least a half dozen possible causes for the the symptoms you describe. If you can answer the above questions it will help in order to find the best solution for you.
[EDIT] Generally, regardless of composition, strings will expand in heat and contract in cold, yes, even under tension.
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igorthebarbarian
Well-known member
Had this happen on the one set of Ko'olau Golds that I tried. So yes it does seem to happen with nylons. Weird and never seen that before, or after...
Have you checked your intonation? Both open string and fretted?
This is NOT a normal occurrence on a properly setup uke with new strings or strings in good condition.
Intonation is spot on my KoAloha Opio tenor. T2's have been on a week, settled in and sound good. The going sharpe is not on fretted notes vrs open strings. Uke is fine.......just an observation. I play a song or two, check tuning and it's a few cents sharpe. I tune flat of the note then bring up to pitch. Been playing ukulele for three years and around the guitar for 40 so just curious about the comment I read about nylon.
Flurocarbon are thinner with more density. Nylon tend to be thicker and warmer. What got me to try the T2 was a combo of both bright and full but withou super thick strings. I have some GHS Chee-Maisel tenor string coming and it will be interesting to try these and compare. My initial thoughts on T2 is I like them. I will try then on a few other ukuleles. I'm mostly a Flurocarbon guy and when they go a bit out of tine is always seems to be a little flat.
Flurocarbon are thinner with more density. Nylon tend to be thicker and warmer. What got me to try the T2 was a combo of both bright and full but withou super thick strings. I have some GHS Chee-Maisel tenor string coming and it will be interesting to try these and compare. My initial thoughts on T2 is I like them. I will try then on a few other ukuleles. I'm mostly a Flurocarbon guy and when they go a bit out of tine is always seems to be a little flat.
If you've been using THINNER fluoro strings previously, and now have the T2's on, it could be that the string is binding in the nut slots, because the NYLON strings are always going to be thicker than fluoro, and the binding has the effect that when you are tuning, you are turning the tuner, you are in fact mostly stretching the string between the tuner and the nut, and due to friction from the string being pinched in the nut slot, the remainder of the string betw the nut and saddle, very slowly balances out the tension as it gets pulled up past the nut slot, thus now the pitch to which you were initially tuned, now a but later, is in fact sharper than at the moment of tuning.
The solution is to WIDEN and NOT deepen the nut slots every so slightly but without the right tools and an angels touch, this is a job that VERY easy to go TOO FAR, we are talking about picometers, or thousandths of an inch wider...
If you've not seen this under your own hands it may be easy to reject the idea as hookum, but I promise you that it IS real, and I have not only seen it myself, but also fixed it myself as indicated above.
I like the T2 strings, and have tried them on all scale lengths, but their notable lack of sustain when compared to almost ANY fluoro string has stopped me from using them.
I write a lot of music that is a sort of Campanella style and lack of sustain is simply not an option if I want to maximize the sound I like to hear. However, YMMV as to your own intent for the sound.
Here is a thought. If your house is air conditioned and the uke is cool when you first put it against your body it will warm up as you play and go sharpe. This happened to sam13 and myself at his house one day when we were playing together, both of oir ukes went a bit sharp as they warmed up.
I'm not doubting what you say, but am puzzled as to how/why this could happen. Any ideas?
Camsuke
Well-known member
Magic?
Don't get hung up on the detail, just play and enjoy your ukulele. If it goes sharp or flat, simply tweak the tuning.
yup, intonation is not the issue. I agree it is strange behavior for a string. after the string acclimates, it settles down and plays fine. it only seems to happen after the uke has been sitting for awhile.
Camsuke
Well-known member
This is it in a nutshell, it's simply the nature of things, no big deal.
We can be too keen to get the tuner out sometimes. Play the instrument for a while first, then tune it.
I do have a theory, just a guess. Wood will expand when heated up, it does have a moisture content. As the instrument lengthens it pulls on the strings, this is very very miniscule but enought to go sharp 5 cents or so. Nylon is softer than floro and will get stretched easier, but I have seen this with florocarbon as well.
This is all just a wild ass guess and I am blessed/cursed with poor hearing when it come to pitch so it goes mostly unnoticed by me.
Dave, yes it's 32c in Okanagan and air is on all day.
Ramone, it does seem to settle down once it comes out of the case, which is humidified and played and tuned.
Camsukes, probably is somewhat the nature of the best. It's just something I notice so thought I would ask. I always tune as soon as Uke comes out of the case and tune every few songs being a few cents sharpe isn't noticeable to most people's ear
Booli, nut was step up for Worth clears but doesn't seem to be binding but could. I know what you are talking about can happen. Haven't decided if T2's are "the" string" yet but when I decide, I will get a qualified tech to tweak the Uke. I'm going to try the T2's on my custom which has zero fret and see how I like them. On custom I've always played fluorocarbon. This is what I alway found great about Jerry Hoffmans "pinned" nut. You can changed strings and gauges at will with no binding at the nut. Good comments by all. Thanks
Ramone, it does seem to settle down once it comes out of the case, which is humidified and played and tuned.
Camsukes, probably is somewhat the nature of the best. It's just something I notice so thought I would ask. I always tune as soon as Uke comes out of the case and tune every few songs being a few cents sharpe isn't noticeable to most people's ear
Booli, nut was step up for Worth clears but doesn't seem to be binding but could. I know what you are talking about can happen. Haven't decided if T2's are "the" string" yet but when I decide, I will get a qualified tech to tweak the Uke. I'm going to try the T2's on my custom which has zero fret and see how I like them. On custom I've always played fluorocarbon. This is what I alway found great about Jerry Hoffmans "pinned" nut. You can changed strings and gauges at will with no binding at the nut. Good comments by all. Thanks
I'm glad to help. I've tried LOTS of different strings.
If the T2's or ANY nylon string had about 2x more sustain, then I would have likely stayed with the T2's early on in my string exploration. I prefer the feel of thicker strings, but had grown to really require the 'chime' of fluorocarbon on the hi-G and A-440 strings otherwise most ukes sound dead to me. But that's just me, and it's all very personal. Each one of us may have a different preference.
If I knew how to make a pinned nut, I might try to 'upgrade' some of my ukes with one. Jerry Hoffman is a genius for that invention.
Not sure about the phenomenon as such, but might it have to do with the fact that the T2's are among the fattest nylon strings around? They are much thicker than fluorocarbon strings, so they need different compensation. From what I've learned, on a uke that is in tune with fluorocarbon strings, the T2 set will most likely intonate sharp when moving up the fretboard.
jbm
Well-known member
With my Kamaka soprano w/ Kamaka strings: In the case for a day. When I first take it out certain strings, usually the C, are flat. If, instead of immediately tuning, I warm up the neck/strings in my hands the strings will come back up to almost normal. If I take it out of the case an immediately tune it then the string(s) will be sharp after a minute or so of playing. Nylon strings just need a minute to acclimate.
Rakelele,
Re T2 being fattest nylon string in fact they are thinner than you think. I did a little checking in net last night and found the following:
1. 2. 3. 4.
T2. .0205. .026. .0319. .0221
FC. .029. .033. .041. .029. D'Addario fluro
620's. .0216. .0280. .034. ..0256. Martin
EJ65T. .0285. .0327. .041. .029. D'Addario
I was surprised that the T2's were thinner than both DAddario Flurocarbon and EJ65T and that Martin 620 Flurocarbon were thinner than T2's.
Now I'm reading info on Southcoasts site on density, thickness, material mixing etc. Very interesting. I will keep T2's on and monitor them but think Martins or Soughtcoast my be next on my Opio
Re T2 being fattest nylon string in fact they are thinner than you think. I did a little checking in net last night and found the following:
1. 2. 3. 4.
T2. .0205. .026. .0319. .0221
FC. .029. .033. .041. .029. D'Addario fluro
620's. .0216. .0280. .034. ..0256. Martin
EJ65T. .0285. .0327. .041. .029. D'Addario
I was surprised that the T2's were thinner than both DAddario Flurocarbon and EJ65T and that Martin 620 Flurocarbon were thinner than T2's.
Now I'm reading info on Southcoasts site on density, thickness, material mixing etc. Very interesting. I will keep T2's on and monitor them but think Martins or Soughtcoast my be next on my Opio
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