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AndieZ
09-03-2016, 04:54 PM
I am not drawn to folk music. I don't know much about it so maybe if i knew more about it, i would apprciate it more.

Please tell me more about it and list three of your favourite folk songs.

It occurs to me that the way some of you feel about pop music is the same as I feel about folk music. Maybe its just a lack of knowledge/awareness of the good stuff.

CeeJay
09-03-2016, 05:13 PM
Define Folk Music Please . As you understand it , Because over here on the cold ,dampo, wild and windy side of the pond I feel that our definition of Folk is different to thine.

In England a Folk song is probably anything from about, ooooh the Tudor Times 1500s, that has survived in a tune and had lyrics put to it that involve a young maiden arising with the dawning of the sun and the screech....excuse me...the dulcet tones of the lark, venturing forth from her chamber and possibly either having to milk a cow or look pale, intersting and vulnerable. Depending on her status and position in society. The toffs generally being the pale and vulnerable looking ones. Then usually at some point in the song . they "sally forth " regardless of whether they are a Miriam or a Priscilla "Sallying" is done and a swain (usually turning out to be a swine , or at least a bit of a cad) is met with and a bit of bashful folderol and hey nonny nonny nonsense is indulged in. This usually involves the maiden not being a maiden any longer by the
end of the song . Or , sometimes and more interestingly if the woman is a Lady and married to a jealous Kniggit a manhunt ....often ending in a tragic demise of the swine ...swain...cad results.
Or songs about being recruited ,going off to war with a hip hoozaar and then finishing with a lament about "Well that was a bit crap, nothing like it said on the tin and I've had me legs shot off and 'I've to goo oowut on they strreyuts and beg'.This has gone on for about 400 years.

Whereas in the USA it seems that folk music is from about 1967, involves an acoustic guitar, a neck braced harmonica loads and loads of narcotic substances and a definite disinclination to do any sort of fighting and stay at home and shag anything that moves. With Flowers involved. Would that be fair ?

Edit: Apparently not fair without the inclusion of songs about murder because you don't love me or suicide because you don't love me or murder/suicide because you don't love me. Bridges and knives were often included. So,love, possibly unrequited , pointy sharp things and great heights and damp or sticky endings.
Thank you Doug W for pointing this out . He hasn't yet , but will later in the thread. It's a sort of a time warp continuum thing.A Pair Of Ducks or similar.

DownUpDave
09-03-2016, 05:24 PM
Google the term "folk music" or look it up in wikipedia and see what you come up with. I grew up in the 60s and 70s and Bob Dylan, Gordon Lightfoot, Simon and Garfunkel, Woody Gunthrie, Cat Stevens, etc, etc, etc were what I listened to. Different times and different geographic regions will yeld different choices. There is no real answer other then it is different then rap, disco and punk.

jollyboy
09-03-2016, 05:30 PM
I don't know that I can offer you any particular insight - if it's not your thing then it's not your thing and that's completely fine (obviously). On the other hand, since you seem willing to give it fair shot, I can try to do the three songs thing, maybe with some commentary...

1. Who Knows Where The Time Goes (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oBMDcLf6WA) - Sandy Denny - An acoustic BBC radio session version. This just absolutely leaves me in bits every time I hear it. Her voice is amazing. She was pretty rock'n'roll for a folkie -guested on Led Zep 4. She came to a somewhat tragic end which somehow makes the lyrics seem all the more poignant (to me anyway).

2. Blackwaterside (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxOouYO5tY4) - Anne Briggs - some fairly hardcore trad folk (Roud 312). A typical story of sex and lies - haunting.

3. Scarborough Fair (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCjUDUshHdQ) - Martin Carthy - It would seem almost remiss not to include this. This is my favourite version - less fussy than the counterpoint version by Simon & Garfunkel.

Edit: One more for luck...

4. Train Song (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd6vQFJm0iA) - Vashti Bunyan - The Godmother of Freak Folk, apparently. UU member Scott Rogers posted a great cover of this recently (in links and videos I think).

Choirguy
09-03-2016, 05:47 PM
What kind of folk music are you asking about? There is also a lot of folk music that comes from all over the globe that is worth listening to. For example, my own interest in Irish music.

There was a guest on the Ukulele Site's podcast this last week...with Tobias Elof, who is a ukulele player from Denmark, and his playing clearly had influence of the folk music of that region...wonderful stuff (and I'll be buying an album or two).

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0Okt0bw_Bk

anthonyg
09-03-2016, 07:41 PM
The best definition of folk music is music played by FOLKS (people). A LOT of Pop, Country, and Blues is Folk music.

We are all Folk musicians around here. I think the "intent" of the Folk music label is to describe music that Folks played for themselves, family, friends and neighbours before music became BIG business.

I call myself a Folk Musician and my repertoire covers from classic folk to pop to blues and even some rock.

Thinking bout it, maybe you can add that its music that can be played by non professional players who aren't absolute experts. Orchestral/Chamber music and Jazz music is ruled out because of the proficiency required.

Anthony

kypfer
09-03-2016, 10:00 PM
Three folk song recommendations ... wow ... only three!!

Where can one start?

How about "Folk Songs I Like to Play With Ukulele Accompaniment"

Pretty Polly - an old English murder ballad that has found it's way into American folk culture

Sweet William and Lady Margaret - unrequited love, bad dreams and ghosts. Another old English ballad that has found it's way into American folk culture

Sloop John B - we all know this one, don't we? - from the Bahamas

I could probably write for an hour or more on this subject and have hardly scratched the surface. Folk music, in many of it's facets, has been a greater or lesser part of my life since forever ... and I was listening to it on the wireless before then.

Dig around, find some artists you like, get into their music, expand your horizons to other artists ... come back in 10 years and ask "Where next?"

YMMV, but enjoy the journey :music:

kypfer
09-03-2016, 10:36 PM
I don't know that I can offer you any particular insight - if it's not your thing then it's not your thing and that's completely fine (obviously). On the other hand, since you seem willing to give it fair shot, I can try to do the three songs thing, maybe with some commentary...

2. Blackwaterside (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxOouYO5tY4) - Anne Briggs - some fairly hardcore trad folk (Roud 312). A typical story of sex and lies - haunting.



... and just to show there's no hard and fast performance of any song, Blackwaterside again, sung by Anne Briggs, but this time with Bert Jansch on guitar ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsLv1C3TbWE ... to die for!!

Bert also performs this song with Pentangle ... it's different again ... that's what folk music is all about. There's thousands of songs performed in dozens of different ways and none of them are "wrong" ... :music:

Croaky Keith
09-03-2016, 10:39 PM
Folk songs usually tell a tale of some sort, would be performed by (often amateur) musicians travelling around the country from town to town, in the days before radio.

Country music used to be very similar in the U.S. - some would call it Folk, artists like Woody Guthrie, on up to Dylan, etc.

Check out groups like The Spinners, Steeleye Span, etc.

I find Folk music generally restful to listen to, though I don't listen all that often, it's just another type of music.

jollyboy
09-03-2016, 11:16 PM
... and just to show there's no hard and fast performance of any song, Blackwaterside again, sung by Anne Briggs, but this time with Bert Jansch on guitar ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsLv1C3TbWE ... to die for!!


Thanks for posting this - another cracking version :) I absolutely concur that Bert Jansch is a someone to check out if you're exploring folk music.


Three folk song recommendations ... wow ... only three!!

I agree - just three is tough.



Pretty Polly - an old English murder ballad that has found it's way into American folk culture


On the subject of murder ballads I'm gonna put a vote in for Nick Cave. He recorded a whole album of them and it's definitely worth a listen if you're after something a bit alt.folk :) I like his version of Henry Lee (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzmMB8dTwGs) (with PJ Harvey). But, then again, I like this version (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSLIc9h5l2k) too :)

AndieZ
09-03-2016, 11:38 PM
I think i might have misunderstood the answers because from my first quick reading i thought oh lots of these posters don't even care for Folk music. So i started a thread to make sure i got poeple who love folk music answering. Now i'm going back over this thread more slowly and listening to all the songs youv'e given me and so i'm sorry for reading too carelessly as it seems you all do love folk music after all.

Anyway coming back to delete the original contents of this post and rewriting it, I'm summing up a bit:
folk music is frequently accoustic music, can overlap with other genres sometimes and probably draws on the traditional music of its region and is not generally made to compete in the commercial mainstream and is usually simpler than other forms in the non-commercial genres such as jazz and classical. So it doesn't see itself as avant-garde, high brow or "serious" music but music for the everday man as articulated by the person above who said its the sort of music you play for friends neighbours etc.

I don't know if that covers it but those are some of the common factors I've picked up from your answers.

AndieZ
09-04-2016, 12:05 AM
CeeJay , Sa fact that oim Strine - a sheila, from down under! Oi live on a big oisland, girt boi sea.

I'm not aware of any Australian folk music tradition. I don't think Click Goes the Shears cuts the mustard.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fb2bq5Wjxto

AndieZ
09-04-2016, 12:16 AM
I"m working through your list Jollyboy.. The first song makes me think - ah folk is accoustic music.... but I could hear some irish riffs in it. It riff is the right word. back in a bit...

The train song is quite nice to my ears. I don't like the top two at all. And yes that fits with my understanding of folk music. Scarborough Fair on the other, I've always liked.

I like this version though unfortunately as you'll see its interrupted with lots of tv show stuff which spoils it quite a bit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUbiDYhGpHQ

AndieZ
09-04-2016, 12:36 AM
Choirguy, So far I listened to the one instrumental piece. I am pleased to say that i picked up the clawhammer picking method. I didn't pick up the regional influence though. I guess you have to have some familiariety with it to identify it - I would never have guessed there was a scandinavian influence even though I have actually travelled through Scandinavia for two months and even found myself at a local folk music event one day. But yes I get it that his is not classical and not really anything else i recognise either.

jollyboy
09-04-2016, 01:00 AM
I"m working through your list Jollyboy.. The first song makes me think - ah folk is accoustic music.... but I could hear some irish riffs in it. It riff is the right word. back in a bit...

The train song is quite nice to my ears. I don't like the top two at all. And yes that fits with my understanding of folk music. Scarborough Fair on the other, I've always liked.

I like this version though unfortunately as you'll see its interrupted with lots of tv show stuff which spoils it quite a bit.


Apparently Denny's Scottish grandmother was an early influence so a little Celtic lilt makes a fair bit of sense.

As far as folk being acoustic. As several others have mentioned folk is a wide-ranging genre. Part of the problem is that the term 'folk music' really is a definition of cultural context rather than an indication of any definable quality of the music itself. There is plenty of non-acoustic folk - folk-rock is a big old thing all by itself. An experiment would be to assemble a bunch of Dylan fans and then ask which is better? - acoustic Bob or electric Bob. Then sit back, grab some popcorn and enjoy the fireworks :)

Personally I tend to like the acoustic stuff. There is a mournful, reflective quality to stripped down acoustic folk that I enjoy connecting with. I would say that it's often not particularly happy music and thematically can get quite dark. I think I find it cathartic (maybe it's like blues for white people :p - but then again,of course, blues is folk music - and I happen to love blues too). I have always found listening to music to be a way to tap into different emotional states (getting a bit deep here). In my youth I had quite a lot of anger and listened to a lot of loud angry music. It's entirely possible that I am somewhat emotionally repressed being a) male and b) English :p

That's another good version of Scarborough Fair you posted. As also mentioned earlier a characteristic of traditional folk is that the exact origins of songs are usually long forgotten and any one version is just as valid as any other. There's no room for snobbery about 'original recordings' and the songs are free to evolve and mutate and thus hopefully retain some appeal :)

Edit: Something else I like is the narrative element - the folk ballad form is basically, after all, a story with a tune behind it.

Doug W
09-04-2016, 01:08 AM
Whereas in the USA it seems that folk music is from about 1967, involves an acoustic guitar, a neck braced harmonica loads and loads of narcotic substances and a definite disinclination to do any sort of fighting and stay at home and shag anything that moves. With Flowers involved. Would that be fair ?
CeeJay,

It would not be fair to leave out the other folk category in the USA which involved either murder because you don't love me or suicide because you don't love me or murder/suicide because you don't love me. Bridges and knives were often included.

kkimura
09-04-2016, 02:00 AM
Many kinds of "folk" music here in the colonies:
American roots like Amazing Grace or "I'll Fly Away"
The labor movement like "John Henry" or "This Land is Your Land"
Early 60s from Dylan and Paxton
The later mainstream Mamas and Papas and Peter, Paul & Mary
And a host of others....

mikelz777
09-04-2016, 02:15 AM
Most of the time, folk music kinda makes me feel like this ;):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqpNQ9AJYgU

anthonyg
09-04-2016, 02:18 AM
FOLK music is still alive. ANY time you sit in your lounge and play music for yourself or your family or friends you are playing "Folk" music. Now if you would normally sit around home and play a guitar plugged in for your family then electric guitars are a folk instrument but generally its an acoustic instrument you would play.

Listing where Folk music has been is fine, honestly, but folk music isn't defined by where it has been. Its what it is and where its going. Folk music is literally Peoples music. Historically there is much music from various cultural backgrounds that is called "Folk" music. Folk music WAS the POPULAR music of its day when there wasn't TV or Radio and people played music at home.

Music that people play for themselves at home is the best definition of Folk music that I have heard. If you still play music at home, and I assume that we all do then we are ALL Folk musicians.

Anthony

AndieZ
09-04-2016, 02:31 AM
FOLK music is still alive. ANY time you sit in your lounge and play music for yourself or your family or friends you are playing "Folk" music. Now if you would normally sit around home and play a guitar plugged in for your family then electric guitars are a folk instrument but generally its an acoustic instrument you would play.

Listing where Folk music has been is fine, honestly, but folk music isn't defined by where it has been. Its what it is and where its going. Folk music is literally Peoples music. Historically there is much music from various cultural backgrounds that is called "Folk" music. Folk music WAS the POPULAR music of its day when there wasn't TV or Radio and people played music at home.

Music that people play for themselves at home is the best definition of Folk music that I have heard. If you still play music at home, and I assume that we all do then we are ALL Folk musicians.

Anthony

I can't come at calling myself a folk musician. Even if you are right. Shouldn't the music be homegrown too? What if you are playing commercial music at home? Or classical or jazz? It sorts of make the word folk music fairly meaningless to me. I mean if folk music is just people playing music at home then all that irish music that people identify as folk would seem to belong to another genre. I mean folk is a genre of music, is it not?

SteveZ
09-04-2016, 02:42 AM
Interesting responses so far.

CeeJay - if narcotic includes caffeine from too-stong coffee and alcohol from a cold beer or two, I could be guilty of being "over-folked."

AndieZ - Folk definitions being somewhat fluid, there is a commonality - storytelling. Most of what I know as folk songs sll tell a tale rather than being some kind of "love song." With that as my personal guideline, the three which are in my gig list are: 1- City of New Orleans (great train song!), 2- Marvelous Toy (nostalgic for personal reasons), and 3- Cuban Crime of Passion (as upbeat as it gets).

While #3 may turn some heads, it is following the tradition of telling a tale. Nothing says that to be considered as "folk" that the song has to be 100+ years old, riddled with Victorian syntax or played on a lute by a high-pitched troubador. Folk is fun stuff, putting events tales to music and can be a "today" style.

anthonyg
09-04-2016, 02:47 AM
I can't come at calling myself a folk musician. Even if you are right. Shouldn't the music be homegrown too? What if you are playing commercial music at home? Or classical or jazz? It sorts of make the word folk music fairly meaningless to me. I mean if folk music is just people playing music at home then all that irish music that people identify as folk would seem to belong to another genre. I mean folk is a genre of music, is it not?

I cover "POP" songs at home all the time. I'm a Folk musician. If you play Classical or Jazz music at home just to play music then its also Folk music. Truth be known though, people only play classical or jazz music at home in order to rehearse.

It can be complicated. Blues music is straight up Folk music from Black Americans although it did develop into a music style for gigs only. Country/Western music is quite folky too.

If family, children, friends and neighbours can sit around in a circle and make a decent go of a song then its Folk music. If only a skilled group of musicians can pull off a song then it isn't Folk music.

Anthony

AndieZ
09-04-2016, 02:59 AM
Most of the time, folk music kinda makes me feel like this :

I certainly have no difficulty with this notion. All art forms need to keep shifting with the times because usually amongst all the players are a few proper artists who have something new to bring.

mikelz777
09-04-2016, 03:37 AM
FOLK music is still alive. ANY time you sit in your lounge and play music for yourself or your family or friends you are playing "Folk" music. Now if you would normally sit around home and play a guitar plugged in for your family then electric guitars are a folk instrument but generally its an acoustic instrument you would play.

Listing where Folk music has been is fine, honestly, but folk music isn't defined by where it has been. Its what it is and where its going. Folk music is literally Peoples music. Historically there is much music from various cultural backgrounds that is called "Folk" music. Folk music WAS the POPULAR music of its day when there wasn't TV or Radio and people played music at home.

Music that people play for themselves at home is the best definition of Folk music that I have heard. If you still play music at home, and I assume that we all do then we are ALL Folk musicians.



I cover "POP" songs at home all the time. I'm a Folk musician. If you play Classical or Jazz music at home just to play music then its also Folk music. Truth be known though, people only play classical or jazz music at home in order to rehearse.

It can be complicated. Blues music is straight up Folk music from Black Americans although it did develop into a music style for gigs only. Country/Western music is quite folky too.

If family, children, friends and neighbours can sit around in a circle and make a decent go of a song then its Folk music. If only a skilled group of musicians can pull off a song then it isn't Folk music.

Anthony

I don't buy this definition, it's much too broad and all encompassing. By this definition, the only music I listen to is folk music when in actuality, I listen to many different kinds of music. I doubt that many people hold or would understand folk music to have such a broad and all encompassing definition. For purposes of this discussion, folk is presented as a genre which is going to hold a certain type of music. Thus, at least by my definition, blues in general is not folk, rock in general is not folk, pop in general is not folk, country in general is not folk, I don't see jazz as folk, etc., etc.

hendulele
09-04-2016, 03:45 AM
From three folk genres:

"All Around My Hat," the Steeleye Span version (https://youtu.be/3zzwbYyvWiU) (British Isles, centuries? old)

"Deep River Blues," the Doc Watson version (https://youtu.be/JrRon71kfnQ) (U.S., country style)

"Midnight Special," Leadbelly (https://youtu.be/CrdioqIMtpY) (African-American gospel-inspired tune)

Then there's California-based singer/songwriter Dave Alvin, who says, "There are two kinds of folk music. Loud and quiet."

johnson430
09-04-2016, 04:31 AM
Game on!
I have got some proper American Folk that anyone can jam on the uke.

First, a true Texas legend you have never heard of but has influenced many. I am talking about Blaze Foley and his epic "Clay Pigeons". He was an incredible song writer. An easy song to learn for the uke.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kspfKqdxcXM

johnson430
09-04-2016, 04:31 AM
Second, the classic Frankie&Johnny but done by Taj Mahal and renamed "Frankie&Albert", either version is a blast to play on the uke. CeeJay, this is the USA love/murder song you are talking about, always need one in the mix.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DFy90m-lHE

johnson430
09-04-2016, 04:32 AM
Thrid pick, "The Streets of Laredo", easy to transpose to the uke and sounds good finger style. Here is Marty's version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L14UKBjC5Is

kkimura
09-04-2016, 04:42 AM
It's really hard to nail down a definition of folk music. Here's Joan with pics of Dylan singing a Donovan song.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmEyb87NlQo

Down Up Dick
09-04-2016, 05:05 AM
I absolutely love this thread. I wish we could have lots more like it.

I enjoy most of the world's folk music that I've heard. I'm not persactly sure what's folk music, but I usually know it when I hear/play it. A lot of it seems to involve dancing, and singing too of course. A long, long time ago I learned/read about/somehow picked up that it was just old tunes that folks learned and played at festivals, pubs, etc. Folks played a tune that they heard somewhere, and someone else liked it, "memorized" it and played it as he learned it somewhere else, etc. etc. That's why there's so many different versions of some of these tunes.

I like and play a lot of Celtic tunes on my instruments, but don't usually have favorite things. I also enjoy American folk which mostly came to us from across the pond, of course. I also like Klezmer music a lot. A lot of folk music (Klezmer for instance) is in minor keys, which I love. Much of the "folk" music from other countries, like German "Oom-Pah" music for instance, I can't really label as folk, but it sounds folksy, people dance to it and some sing the words.

I don't have favorites. That's like asking someone which kind of chocolate cake and ice cream is his/her favorite. :old:

CeeJay
09-04-2016, 05:50 AM
CeeJay,

It would not be fair to leave out the other folk category in the USA which involved either murder because you don't love me or suicide because you don't love me or murder/suicide because you don't love me. Bridges and knives were often included.
I shall amend toot sweet .Thank you .

johnson430
09-04-2016, 05:57 AM
I shall amend toot sweet .Thank you .

CeeJay, see post #28 on page 3. That one is for you. =)

CeeJay
09-04-2016, 06:00 AM
Louis Armstrong once observed that "all music is folk music; I ain't never heard no horse sing a song," which is as good a way as any of saying that making music is a human activity.


* Smithsonian.com

CeeJay
09-04-2016, 06:02 AM
CeeJay, see post #28 on page 3. That one is for you. =)

Hah, Good one, I immediately latched onto " The Banks Of the Ohio " as soon as I read DougW 's comment and now more are bubbling up to the surface of the old brain ......."Tom Dooley " just popped up in there....

Joyful Uke
09-04-2016, 06:09 AM
Well, I couldn't stop at 3. LOL. And, I suspect I'll be stuck in that YouTube rabbit hole for a while longer, now that I've gotten started.

Doc Watson doing Tom Paxton's song Last Thing on My Mind
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io8uZRG--1s

Joni Mitchell - Both Sides Now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmZpmNkuSMA
First cut is Both Sides Now, but you can listen to the entire album. :-)

Gordon Lightfoot - Early Morning Rain
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pqttl9aWm0

David Bromberg - Dark Hollow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-tsAltlRLQ

John Hartford - (best known for his song Gentle on My Mind) - Lorena
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0cdmHXWYr8

Sawyer Fredericks - (winner of "The Voice" 2015) - Man of Constant Sorrow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFH9LQLGNbk

John Prine - Angel From Montgomery
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtFCUIsl4Yc&index=3&list=PLhrjLxfhlrq092Z1HuNlF-bT8KVQTYDnm

Steve Goodman, (best known for his song City of New Orleans) - The Dutchman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeBD3rcAMFw with Jethro Burns

Down Up Dick
09-04-2016, 06:21 AM
It's amazingly difficult to define folk music. At least, it is for me. Another thing I learned long ago is that folk music was or should be anonymous. So modern day folk music written by one of the sixties musicians was just pop I guess.
I said something about a Stephan Foster song to someone, and she said " Oh, I love folk music!". Well . . . I dunno . . .
I mostly like the old stuff anyway. At least, I think I do. :old:

CeeJay
09-04-2016, 06:36 AM
It's amazingly difficult to define folk music. At least, it is for me. Another thing I learned long ago is that folk music was or should be anonymous. So modern day folk music written by one of the sixties musicians was just pop I guess.
I said something about a Stephan Foster song to someone, and she said " Oh, I love folk music!". Well . . . I dunno . . .
I mostly like the old stuff anyway. At least, I think I do. :old:

There is an awful lot wrtten by T Rad as well.

Down Up Dick
09-04-2016, 06:40 AM
There is an awful lot wrtten by T Rad as well.

I have no idea whatsoever what T Rad is. In other words: Huh? :old:

Joyful Uke
09-04-2016, 06:42 AM
It's amazingly difficult to define folk music. At least, it is for me. Another thing I learned long ago is that folk music was or should be anonymous. So modern day folk music written by one of the sixties musicians was just pop I guess.

It is hard to define "folk music", but I disagree that it should be anonymous, (unless the song is so bad that it's better that we don't know who to blame. LOL.)

This article might be of interest:
http://billmoyers.com/2014/05/28/music-and-movements-the-tradition-continues/

Wikipedia's definition, (not that they're the expert):
"Folk music includes both traditional music and the genre that evolved from it during the 20th century folk revival."

About the 60's music:
"Starting in the mid-20th century a new form of popular folk music evolved from traditional folk music. This process and period is called the (second) folk revival and reached a zenith in the 1960s. This form of music is sometimes called contemporary folk music or folk revival music to distinguish it from earlier folk forms.1]"

So, DUD, I think you're focusing on earlier folk, and excluding contempory folk music, but both can be considered folk music, (at least by some definitions.)

CeeJay
09-04-2016, 06:45 AM
The best definition of folk music is music played by FOLKS (people). A LOT of Pop, Country, and Blues is Folk music.

We are all Folk musicians around here. I think the "intent" of the Folk music label is to describe music that Folks played for themselves, family, friends and neighbours before music became BIG business.

I call myself a Folk Musician and my repertoire covers from classic folk to pop to blues and even some rock.

Thinking bout it, maybe you can add that its music that can be played by non professional players who aren't absolute experts. Orchestral/Chamber music and Jazz music is ruled out because of the proficiency required.

Anthony

I slightly disagree with the underlined section, Orchestral, well maybe, unless you happen to have a group of players to form an orchestra. But otherwise I believe that you can pay Jazz and Classical at home .

I know that I do.

mikelz777
09-04-2016, 06:47 AM
It's amazingly difficult to define folk music. At least, it is for me. Another thing I learned long ago is that folk music was or should be anonymous. So modern day folk music written by one of the sixties musicians was just pop I guess.
I said something about a Stephan Foster song to someone, and she said " Oh, I love folk music!". Well . . . I dunno . . .
I mostly like the old stuff anyway. At least, I think I do. :old:

Now that I'm seeing what people are posting they like in folk music I think I have been defining it too narrowly when I said that I wasn't much of a fan. When I think of folk music, I'm thinking of stuff like Tom Dooley, If I Had A Hammer, Where Have All The Flowers Gone, We Shall Overcome, Walk Right In, Abraham Martin And John, If I Were A Carpenter, Blowin' In The Wind, etc., etc. But I play and sing a fair amount of John Prine. Is that folk? I could totally get on board with that Blaze Foley song posted earlier. Is that folk? I'll listen to Marty Robbins but I've never thought of him as folk. I'll sing City Of New Orleans which I associate with Arlo Guthrie. Is that really folk? I think Down Up Dick may be right, folk music is harder to define than I thought.

Joyful Uke
09-04-2016, 06:49 AM
Wiki's definition of contemporary folk:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_folk_music

I think DUD is excluding contempory folk, and including only traditional folk.
I'm not sure how the OP is defining folk, though, especially since I'm in the US, and the OP, IIRC, isn't, so maybe there is yet another definition of folk to be considered, too.

Down Up Dick
09-04-2016, 07:08 AM
I'm quite satisfied with "contemporary folk and/or traditional folk". I play both types. I was just posting what I was taught in the distant past. Maybe even before the pop/contemporary folk period, which, by the way, I didn't care for at the time. I was much more conservative then. I also remember when blues was blues or Rhythm and Blues, and then it was joined to folk.

Things change. Tastes change. But music just keeps a-rollin' along. Someday the music you like will be old hat! :old:

johnson430
09-04-2016, 07:17 AM
Now that I'm seeing what people are posting they like in folk music I think I have been defining it too narrowly when I said that I wasn't much of a fan. When I think of folk music, I'm thinking of stuff like Tom Dooley, If I Had A Hammer, Where Have All The Flowers Gone, We Shall Overcome, Walk Right In, Abraham Martin And John, If I Were A Carpenter, Blowin' In The Wind, etc., etc. But I play and sing a fair amount of John Prine. Is that folk? I could totally get on board with that Blaze Foley song posted earlier. Is that folk? I'll listen to Marty Robbins but I've never thought of him as folk. I'll sing City Of New Orleans which I associate with Arlo Guthrie. Is that really folk? I think Down Up Dick may be right, folk music is harder to define than I thought.

First off, when I think of folk music I think of the song and not the artist.

On that note, I agree with you and DUD about trying to define folk music.
Perhaps regionalism has something to do with our definitions.
I was born and raised in Texas so my view of folk music is skewed by the influence of blues and country. Although, I can also appreciate the "traditional folk music" from other regions, cultures and countries.

To expound on my first statement:
Marty Robbins is a country singer but Streets of Laredo falls into the folk music category.
The same with Taj Mahal, I think of him as a blues musician but the song he is playing is a traditional folk song.

Joyful Uke
09-04-2016, 07:22 AM
Perhaps regionalism has something to do with our definitions.
I was born and raised in Texas so my view of folk music is skewed by the influence of blues and country.

And I posted 2 people from the past folk music scene in Chicago, (Steve Goodman and John Prine), because that was my part of the country.

I do think that regionalism does play a role. After all, the folk music of China is going to be different than the folk music of Chicago.

Does anyone have example of Hawaiian folk music?

actadh
09-04-2016, 07:57 AM
I live on the Little Kanawha River which feeds into the Ohio, so Banks of the Ohio is one folk tune I include in my songbook. I prefer the lyrics as written from the woman's point of view and Scorpex has a nice version based on Olivia Newton John's rendition:
http://www.scorpexuke.com/song-display.html?song=Banks_Of_The_Ohio_Olivia_Newton_ John.pdf&id=1001

Continuing with folk music from my Appalachian region are some gems from Elmer Bird of West Virginia
http://cdm272901.cdmhost.com/cdm/search/searchterm/Elmer%20Bird/order/nosort

and Jean Richie from Kentucky:
http://cdm272901.cdmhost.com/cdm/search/searchterm/jean%20ritchie/order/nosort

If you are not familiar with Jean Richie, here is her obituary from last year that was in the New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/03/arts/music/jean-ritchie-who-revived-appalachian-folk-songs-dies-at-92.html?_r=0

I love this part of the Times article-
As a college student, Ms. Ritchie took a few voice lessons, her only formal instruction. Her father, hearing her sing the old songs with her newfound classical technique, inquired whether she was ill.

Ms. Ritchie quickly went back, as she later said, to “ ‘decorating’ a song with shakes and quivers in the old way, shaking up a note and quivering down.”

And lastly, the haunting Hazel Dickens from Mercer County, West Virginia:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlAfA1AF4TQ

Berea College has some wonderful archives of folk music including the Bird and Ritchie collections.

johnson430
09-04-2016, 08:04 AM
And I posted 2 people from the past folk music scene in Chicago, (Steve Goodman and John Prine), because that was my part of the country.

I do think that regionalism does play a role. After all, the folk music of China is going to be different than the folk music of Chicago.

Does anyone have example of Hawaiian folk music?

Right on.
Funny you would bring up China; my wife is Chinese and I lived there for a few years.
Actually, for traditional/folk Hawaiian music I have found a very good learning resource: The Pekelo Books 1 and 2.
http://www.pekelosbooks.com/

Down Up Dick
09-04-2016, 08:23 AM
I have a coupla Chinese music CDs. I don't know if they're folk music, but the titles sound like it. I enjoy it. :old:

stevejfc
09-04-2016, 09:22 AM
Three words: Mississippi John Hurt

jollyboy
09-04-2016, 09:37 AM
and Jean Richie from Kentucky:
http://cdm272901.cdmhost.com/cdm/search/searchterm/jean%20ritchie/order/nosort


I noticed on the linked page there was a version of All The Pretty Little Horses. That reminded me of this...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWg4dnXCpt8

If anyone fancies a trip down the rabbit hole that is experimental folk then check out David Tibet's work.

stevejfc
09-04-2016, 09:49 AM
Ok, here's one. Two old folkies doing Elvis, while discussing what folk music really is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSF89swJ9IU

Down Up Dick
09-04-2016, 10:09 AM
I think music is a very emotion driven art. Perhaps we enjoy music that evokes or enhances the mood that we're in. Sometimes I put on a CD that I really like, but then I take it right off. It just happened to be music that I didn't want to hear. When one goes into a honky took to drink some beer, he/she doesn't wanna hear Show Tunes or beautiful classical pieces. Most would rather hear Willie Nelson or Waylan Jennings. So maybe good (folk) music is "feel good" music even if it happens to be in a minor key. If one is a bit down, minor keyed music can be very satisfying.

I don't think it's regional in America, because folk music is pretty much a mish-mash of world music here. I have some really wild Eastern European folksy seeming music, but the CDs were recorded here in the US.

Well anyway, if I play folk music that I'm in the mood to hear, I find it very, very satisfying no matter where it's from. :old:

JustinJ
09-04-2016, 10:30 AM
I really love John Martyn. The man lived life full tilt. I play his album Solid Air for people when they come to my house. I've not met anyone who does not like it.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwjL3ipBAhg

Joyful Uke
09-04-2016, 10:37 AM
Ok, here's one. Two old folkies doing Elvis, while discussing what folk music really is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSF89swJ9IU

That does add to the discussion of what folk music is. And, as usual, Arlo made me laugh, too.

Annual tradition of a radio station here is to play Alice's Restaurant every Thanksgiving. I might have to cheat and go listen to it now, though.

CeeJay
09-04-2016, 10:42 AM
I have no idea whatsoever what T Rad is. In other words: Huh? :old:

Trad.....short for traditional...they may not print it that way on sheets over there ? ...we get Trad.In the place where the author's name goes..lol

stevejfc
09-04-2016, 10:47 AM
That does add to the discussion of what folk music is. And, as usual, Arlo made me laugh, too.

Annual tradition of a radio station here is to play Alice's Restaurant every Thanksgiving. I might have to cheat and go listen to it now, though.
Ah, fond memories of the Group W Bench!

jollyboy
09-04-2016, 10:57 AM
Okay, time for some classic folk-rock...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wtk2Wpjacg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5XFNXZ0c-0

Down Up Dick
09-04-2016, 11:09 AM
Trad.....short for traditional...they may not print it that way on sheets over there ? ...we get Trad.In the place where the author's name goes..lol

Oh, okay, I get it. Your post said T Rad. Uh! Must be a British thang, I thought. Those people really mangle English. :old:

Joyful Uke
09-04-2016, 11:11 AM
Ah, fond memories of the Group W Bench!

What are you in for?
Littering.
And they all moved away from me on the bench....

If folk music tells a tale, then Alice's Restaurant certainly qualifies, and unlike the murder ballads, this one keeps you laughing. :-)

mikelz777
09-04-2016, 11:30 AM
I think music is a very emotion driven art. Perhaps we enjoy music that evokes or enhances the mood that we're in. Sometimes I put on a CD that I really like, but then I take it right off. It just happened to be music that I didn't want to hear.

I've done this many times. I'll throw a CD on that I think I want to hear and before the end of the first song I'll sometimes go, "Nope, this isn't working for me!" and I'll take it off for something else.

ScooterD35
09-04-2016, 11:38 AM
This is an episode of a local cable show called "Horses Sing None Of It", produced by The Folk Project here in NJ. It covers a whole lot of folkie ground in its 649 episodes (so far).

Subscribe and enjoy!



https://youtu.be/ONFghMkMgL8



Scooter

Joyful Uke
09-04-2016, 11:46 AM
I really love John Martyn. The man lived life full tilt. I play his album Solid Air for people when they come to my house. I've not met anyone who does not like it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwjL3ipBAhg

Good thing tomorrow is a holiday. I'm spending way too much time in YouTube land today, and have more I want to listen to.
I've got to hear more fo John Martyn. Really liked this one!

kypfer
09-04-2016, 12:08 PM
I think what one needs to be careful of, both in this thread and life in general, is equating the music of contemporary singer-songwriters, who may well play an acoustic (as opposed to electrified) instrument, usually guitar, in a folk or traditional style, to actual traditional folk songs.

The one is likely to have been written and first performed within the last 50 years, some of which will have been absorbed into the folk idiom ... think Woody Guthrie or early Bob Dylan.

The other will have been passed down through probably several generations, usually aurally, and probably "collected" in the late 19th or early 20th century before being published for the appreciation of the wider audience (you and me).

There are also "folk tunes", usually dance tunes without lyrics, many of which have been documented since the 1600's, at least in the UK.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the "contemporary singer-songwriter" genre and I'm sure there's a lot of people who've been "introduced" to traditional folk music having expanded their horizons from some relatively modern-day performer, but I do feel the difference needs to be noted.

Just my tuppence worth, I enjoy it all, YMMV :rock: :music:

kypfer
09-04-2016, 12:21 PM
What are you in for?
Littering.
And they all moved away from me on the bench....

If folk music tells a tale, then Alice's Restaurant certainly qualifies, and unlike the murder ballads, this one keeps you laughing. :-)

There's probably more truth in that statement than a lot of people realise ... just because it was funny (still is) doesn't mean it's not a reasonably accurate representation of an actual series of events. I'm guessing it was just too personal a tale to have been incorporated into the wider repertoire (or just too long, by today's standards).

Another relatively recent composition that seems to "tick all the boxes" is "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald", written, composed, and performed by Canadian singer-songwriter Gordon Lightfoot. Not a smile to be seen, but a documentary of a tragic event not so very long ago :(

stevejfc
09-04-2016, 12:30 PM
What are you in for?
Littering.
And they all moved away from me on the bench....

If folk music tells a tale, then Alice's Restaurant certainly qualifies, and unlike the murder ballads, this one keeps you laughing. :-)
Littering might have been on a slow day!
I guess I wouldn't know what else to call "Alice's" than folk...... maybe satirical folk comedy?
Speaking of murder ballads, a song that I certainly consider a folk song, though most would say Country, is "Long Black Veil" by Lefty Frizzell. Lefty of course is one of the founders of modern country music in the '50s. Long Black Veil is one of the only songs sung 1st person, by the murderer, from the grave. It's been done several times since then, most famously by The Band, with Levon Helm on vocal..............but Lefty's version is pure Americana folk.

actadh
09-04-2016, 12:39 PM
Don't forget about Folk Alley. It originates out of Kent State and comes in on my local public radio station (mine is WOUB out of Athens, Ohio), but you can register to listen to it on your phone or computer.
http://www.folkalley.com/

CeeJay
09-04-2016, 01:40 PM
What are you in for?
Littering.
And they all moved away from me on the bench....

If folk music tells a tale, then Alice's Restaurant certainly qualifies, and unlike the murder ballads, this one keeps you laughing. :-)

..And disturbing the peace...and they all came right back...Best Talking Blues song EVER.....

anthonyg
09-04-2016, 02:27 PM
I'm a little disappointed that some here want to leave "Folk" music buried in a pine box 6 feet under.:(

Folk music isn't dead yet and what has been done in the past isn't the entirety of Folk music.

I attend that National Folk Festival in Canberra each year and the depth and breadth of "Folk" music is very broad.

Lots, and Lots and Lots of contemporary performers playing original songs at the National Folk Festival.

Actually, there is even some Jazz being played.

Anthony

JackLuis
09-04-2016, 06:02 PM
Burl Ives, folk singer "Burl Ives - The original recording of Ghost Riders In The Sky"

Tennessee Ernie Ford - Shenandoah (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khxx3sCVhtE&list=RD3DrOqRQQ9mg&index=10)

"Where were You When the Ship The Sand?" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8yI2A0QUtM&list=RDixVUY5g5E7w&index=10) Dean Martin & Tennessee Ernie Ford

For the historical view of Folk Resurgence in the late 50's

AndieZ
09-04-2016, 06:49 PM
Joyful Uke i think you have made a very good contribution to my education and to this thread. :-)

Now we could move on from the discussion of definitions since I think we are fairly clear on it, (even if we do not all agree) and its boring to go over and over the same topic isnt' it?

Or at least i would like to turn your attentions to the main thing I wanted to know when I asked about folk music and its merits - i can hardly remember my original question -.... So actually is there something of a technical nature in the best of this sort of music that I need to be aware of - something that would make me appreciate it more. You know in the that jazz has that element in it and likewise classical.

You see apart from one or two songs above, most of it is not to my taste either as an original song or as it is performed. The exceptions above are Frankie and Johnny by Taj Mahal, Joni Mitchel song Both Sides Now. I like Bob Dylan's songs and Joan Baez has a beautiful voice but i never liked her music.

Dick, please put aside the word "favourites" and share some songs you love.

I enjoy hearing the odd bit of Lead Belly because he has an interesting voice and clearly he was a great musician but if it comes to the Midnight Special, I probably wouldn't listen to it over and over though I probably also need to list to more of him. That said, i would think of him more as a blues musician than a folk musician, even if he was a folk musician. .. I just read about him on wikipedia. Very impressive indeed.

AndieZ
09-04-2016, 06:55 PM
I think what one needs to be careful of, both in this thread and life in general, is equating the music of contemporary singer-songwriters, who may well play an acoustic (as opposed to electrified) instrument, usually guitar, in a folk or traditional style, to actual traditional folk songs.

The one is likely to have been written and first performed within the last 50 years, some of which will have been absorbed into the folk idiom ... think Woody Guthrie or early Bob Dylan.

The other will have been passed down through probably several generations, usually aurally, and probably "collected" in the late 19th or early 20th century before being published for the appreciation of the wider audience (you and me).

There are also "folk tunes", usually dance tunes without lyrics, many of which have been documented since the 1600's, at least in the UK.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the "contemporary singer-songwriter" genre and I'm sure there's a lot of people who've been "introduced" to traditional folk music having expanded their horizons from some relatively modern-day performer, but I do feel the difference needs to be noted.

Just my tuppence worth, I enjoy it all, YMMV :rock: :music:

Yeah some good thoughts in there. I had been coming to the notion of style too as a question i wanted to raise. Its the folk style that I think is particularly not my thing. While of course there's plenty of folk songs that i must like but i like them when they are performed in a more contemporary or jazz style as a general rule.

eg Scarborough fair which i love, i like it most when its got less of that folky sound going on. I think. But then this song is a little bit special so i'd probably like it however it was done.

I like Medieval English songs. Not that i've heard much of them a lot but i would say they sound more classical than folksy and that's how i like them performed too.

johnson430
09-04-2016, 06:59 PM
I enjoy hearing the odd bit of Lead Belly because he has an interesting voice and clearly he was a great musician but if it comes to the Midnight Special, I probably wouldn't listen to it over and over though I probably also need to list to more of him. That said, i would think of him more as a blues musician than a folk musician, even if he was a folk musician. .. I just read about him on wikipedia. Very impressive indeed.

Andie, I made note of this in a previous post on here. Yes, Leadbelly is a blues musician.
But the song, Midnight Special is an American folk song.
Same as Marty Robbins is a country singer but Streets of Laredo is a folk song.
Folk is about the song than the person singing it.
A folk song can be sung by anyone regardless the singer's defining style. Or that is the way I see it. =)

kypfer
09-04-2016, 08:44 PM
Burl Ives, folk singer "Burl Ives - The original recording of Ghost Riders In The Sky"

Tennessee Ernie Ford - Shenandoah (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khxx3sCVhtE&list=RD3DrOqRQQ9mg&index=10)

"Where were You When the Ship The Sand?" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8yI2A0QUtM&list=RDixVUY5g5E7w&index=10) Dean Martin & Tennessee Ernie Ford

For the historical view of Folk Resurgence in the late 50's

On the eastern side of the Atlantic we had the skiffle phenomenon which often featured "revved-up" folksongs ... see if you can find a recording of Lonnie Donegan singing "The Golden Vanity" ... then there was Shirley Abicair, all the way from Australia with her zither ... "Eddystone Light" one on of my favourites of hers.

Speaking of "revved-up" folk - and coming right up to date, check out Perkelt http://www.perkelt.com/PerKelt_UK.php and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHLnN3dNbsA - to die for!

AndieZ
09-04-2016, 10:43 PM
Andie, I made note of this in a previous post on here. Yes, Leadbelly is a blues musician.
But the song, Midnight Special is an American folk song.
Same as Marty Robbins is a country singer but Streets of Laredo is a folk song.
Folk is about the song than the person singing it.
A folk song can be sung by anyone regardless the singer's defining style. Or that is the way I see it. =)

I read your post. I noted what you said.

But i think now what i am moving on to in the discussion is folk as a style of music. There is a folk sound in a lot of folk music just as there are traditional songs which you might call folks songs and i would not call them folk music. And i'm not even talking about the person. That's a little bit elemental.

Yes I don't care where streets of laredo comes from, I enjoyed it when i was six but i'm closer to 56 now. Its just old and as i don't like country music, nothing in Marty Robbins version is changing my view of the song.

Here's another one that fits your model. I think its fairly irrelevant to talk about this rendition in terms of folk.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnjoDDC1Cyw

So when I said Lead belly was a blues musician, i was talking about style. Even if Midnight Special is a traditional or folk song, if someone is singing it as a blues song or rock or whatever, surely that's more to the point isn't it?

jollyboy
09-04-2016, 11:26 PM
So when I said Lead belly was a blues musician, i was talking about style. Even if Midnight Special is a traditional or folk song, if someone is singing it as a blues song or rock or whatever, surely that's more to the point isn't it?

I feel this is a fair point. If we started a jazz vocal thread, for example, I wouldn't be expecting anyone to (seriously) post the Sid Vicious version of 'My Way'.

Edit: agghhh I've let myself be sucked into the debate on definitions... dammit :deadhorse:

AndieZ
09-05-2016, 12:02 AM
That Ernie Ford guy has what we'd call "a magnificent voice" I"ve never heard of him before. That said, I'm seeing a lot of old fashioned music here. Not just old songs but old songs played in old fashioned ways. Is that where a lot of you are at?

Its funny though, my father - who is 80, loves to listen to old songs too but they are jazz songs mostly. And he loves all the new young female jazz singers a la Renee Olstead and Norah Jones. I believe my dad has great taste in music and although i have a very limited knowledge of music, most of what i do know comes from him and his collections. He can't sing a note in tune, avoids trying, and nor does he play an instrument. But he married my mother who had a lovely voice and i suspect it was partly because of her voice.

So I reckon, i should probably leave all your folkies to i belong on the jazz bandwagon and need to learn more about blues and such. I'll start a blues thread. Join in if you want.

kkimura
09-05-2016, 02:12 AM
It comes to no surprise that if American "folk music" is literately the music of the people, it will range as far and as diverse as the people that make up this country. As new ethnic groups enter the country and old ones develop a regional identity, new music enters the lexicon of American Folk Music providing a rich tapestry of good stuff to hear, play and sing.

SteveZ
09-05-2016, 02:22 AM
It comes to no surprise that if American "folk music" is literately the music of the people, it will range as far and as diverse as the people that make up this country. As new ethnic groups enter the country and old ones develop a regional identity, new music enters the lexicon of American Folk Music providing a rich tapestry of good stuff to hear, play and sing.

How true, and that includes how existing instruments are adapted to fit new and blended styles.

stevejfc
09-05-2016, 02:36 AM
Whoa..............next thing you know, Dylan might go electric.........

kypfer
09-05-2016, 06:23 AM
Whoa..............next thing you know, Dylan might go electric.........

... again ;)

Joyful Uke
09-05-2016, 07:56 AM
Fred Hellerman, Last of the Weavers Folk Group, Dies at 89
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/03/arts/music/fred-hellerman-last-of-the-weavers-folk-group-dies-at-89.html?_r=0

This might add to the discussion of folk music.

He lived an interesting life.

stevejfc
09-05-2016, 12:16 PM
Fred Hellerman, Last of the Weavers Folk Group, Dies at 89
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/03/arts/music/fred-hellerman-last-of-the-weavers-folk-group-dies-at-89.html?_r=0

This might add to the discussion of folk music.

He lived an interesting life.

He's playing again with Pete, Ronnie and Lee. I'll have Goodnight Irene on the turntable tonight

kkimura
09-06-2016, 04:00 AM
He's playing again with Pete, Ronnie and Lee. I'll have Goodnight Irene on the turntable tonight

Goodnight Irene is an old (1933) tune by Led Belly brought back to life in the 50s by the Weavers. How long before Kanye West's "Jesus Walks" enters the "Folk" lexicon?

mikelz777
09-06-2016, 05:43 AM
How long before Kanye West's "Jesus Walks" enters the "Folk" lexicon?

Hopefully, the day after never. :cool:

kkimura
09-06-2016, 05:54 AM
Hopefully, the day after never. :cool:

I'd allow, that's how folk felt about all that "Devil" music back in the 30s.

;)

mikelz777
09-06-2016, 06:06 AM
I'd allow, that's how folk felt about all that "Devil" music back in the 30s.

;)

Good point! I actually have 4 box sets titled "That Devilin'Tune" which chronicle the evolution of jazz from 1895 to 1951 over the course of 36 CDs. Jazz was often considered the devil's music back in the day.

Jim Yates
09-06-2016, 06:17 AM
People have been trying for years to define "Folk". During "The Great Folk Scare" of the late fifties into the sixties, Sing Out! magazine had many letters to the editor and different columnists debating the definition of "Folk". This went on for decades (Still going on).
Of course there's the old, "All songs is folk songs. . .I ain't heard no horse sing 'em," credited to Big Bill Broonzy in a 1961 Sing Out!, but I've since seen several musicians, even Louis Armstrong, given credit.
Many felt that, "If you know who wrote it, it ain't folk."
Some feel that some kind of oral tradition, passing down, is necessary to be folk.
I've Heard "Folk" described as a four letter word that starts with "F" and ends with "K" and if you use it, your songs won't get played on the radio.
Michael Cooney once said, "If it takes more than two trips to get your gear from the van to the stage, it ain't folk music.
Sing Out! the folk song magazine, had cover stories on Memphis Slim, Bill Monroe, Johnny Cash, Muddy Waters, Paul Butterfield, The Fugs. . .
I include blues, Irish trad, old time, jug band, bluegrass, old country, and even singer/songwriter and some rock in the category of Folk, although it's probably best not to categorize music unless you own a record store.
I recall going to the Flying Cloud Folk Club in Toronto to see some string band music. I was wearing a Shelter Valley Folk Festival T-shirt and a couple of people said, "I hear that Shelter Valley is a fun festival, but it's mostly singer/songwriter stuff and not much folk."

The type of "folk music" that I like on the uke is mostly jug band music like Boodle Am Shake, I'm Satisfied With My Gal, The Barnyard Dance, Washington At Valley Forge and Lindberg Hop.

mikelz777
09-06-2016, 06:33 AM
People have been trying for years to define "Folk". During "The Great Folk Scare" of the late fifties into the sixties, Sing Out! magazine had many letters to the editor and different columnists debating the definition of "Folk". This went on for decades (Still going on).
Of course there's the old, "All songs is folk songs. . .I ain't heard no horse sing 'em," credited to Big Bill Broonzy in a 1961 Sing Out!, but I've since seen several musicians, even Louis Armstrong, given credit.
Many felt that, "If you know who wrote it, it ain't folk."
Some feel that some kind of oral tradition, passing down, is necessary to be folk.
I've Heard "Folk" described as a four letter word that starts with "F" and ends with "K" and if you use it, your songs won't get played on the radio.
Michael Cooney once said, "If it takes more than two trips to get your gear from the van to the stage, it ain't folk music.
Sing Out! the folk song magazine, had cover stories on Memphis Slim, Bill Monroe, Johnny Cash, Muddy Waters, Paul Butterfield, The Fugs. . .
I include blues, Irish trad, old time, jug band, bluegrass, old country, and even singer/songwriter and some rock in the category of Folk, although it's probably best not to categorize music unless you own a record store.
I recall going to the Flying Cloud Folk Club in Toronto to see some string band music. I was wearing a Shelter Valley Folk Festival T-shirt and a couple of people said, "I hear that Shelter Valley is a fun festival, but it's mostly singer/songwriter stuff and not much folk."

The type of "folk music" that I like on the uke is mostly jug band music like Boodle Am Shake, I'm Satisfied With My Gal, The Barnyard Dance, Washington At Valley Forge and Lindberg Hop.

Good post and good insight here. It made me think of how all the folkies were in such an uproar and apoplectic when Bob Dylan went electric. Your experience wearing the Shelter Valley Folk Festival T-shirt made me think of the New Orleans Jazz Festival that a bunch of people were joking about on a jazz forum. The festival was abbreviated as "NO Jazz Festival" and everyone was joking that it was because you'd be hard pressed to find actual jazz performances there. The actual jazz performers were a small minority but the majority of the acts had very little or nothing to do with jazz.

jollyboy
09-06-2016, 09:18 AM
Sing Out! the folk song magazine, had cover stories on Memphis Slim, Bill Monroe, Johnny Cash, Muddy Waters, Paul Butterfield, The Fugs. . .

The Fugs are great...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNbU8WCyVe8

AndieZ
09-06-2016, 03:27 PM
[QUOTE=jollyboy;1888043]The Fugs are great...

...That was hilarious JB. Thanks for sharing. Do they always sing that bad?

jollyboy
09-06-2016, 03:53 PM
Do they always sing that bad?

Only when they can't get high :)

AndieZ
09-07-2016, 12:31 AM
Only when they can't get high :)

That was pretty bad singing all the way through. Were they singing a wrong key?

johnson430
09-07-2016, 03:30 AM
That was pretty bad singing all the way through. Were they singing a wrong key?

I think they were singing so bad because they couldn't get high. =)