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zztush
11-01-2016, 11:31 PM
No. We are native!

Renaissance guitar is our common ancestor. Renaissance guitar has four courses. We keep GCEA, which is one of the best tuning for string instruments, over 400 years. John King has taken this tuning advantage on ukulele and revived a playing technique from the Baroque era.

https://s17.postimg.org/ln5z44cpb/guitar2.png (https://postimg.org/image/61onk60qz/)how to screen capture (https://postimage.org/app.php)

We are main building and guitar has annex. Our tuning has come earlier than guitar tuning. C, G and F keys are all easy to play on ukulele. Guitar's tuning is shifted to sharp. Even F key, which has F and Bb chords, is difficult to play on guitar. Wound string has allowed guitar to add 6th string. Low G does not mean surrender. Thank you very much Hawaiian people to introduce us such nice music instrument.

DownUpDave
11-02-2016, 02:00 AM
I have always treated the uke like a small guitar in so much as I play everything on it. Rock, country, blues, jazz, classical...........all of these sound good played on a ukulele. Thank you Hawaiian people indeed :shaka:

zztush
11-02-2016, 02:10 AM
Hi, Dave! I remember that you and Jollyboy admit your ukuleles small guitars. No need to surrender. Guitar is only one of the variants of ukulele.

SteveZ
11-02-2016, 02:32 AM
I have always treated the uke like a small guitar in so much as I play everything on it. Rock, country, blues, jazz, classical...........all of these sound good played on a ukulele. Thank you Hawaiian people indeed :shaka:

Coming from a guitar background I definitely tend to treat the 4-string uke as a small tenor guitar, the 8-string uke as a nylon-stringed octave mandolin and the banjo-ukes as small tenor banjos. The oddball in the stable is the 6-string uke which produces a sound closer to a parlor guitar than I expected.

Tuning is interesting snd personal. I gave up on GCEA a long time ago, opting for fifths (mainly CGDA) which I find more comfortable.

stevejfc
11-02-2016, 03:07 AM
................or, perhaps a guitar is a big ukulele.:cool:

SoloRule
11-02-2016, 03:08 AM
I have always treated the uke like a small guitar in so much as I play everything on it. Rock, country, blues, jazz, classical...........all of these sound good played on a ukulele. Thank you Hawaiian people indeed :shaka:

It's the Portuguese who brought the uke to Hawaii.

peanuts56
11-02-2016, 04:43 AM
................or, perhaps a guitar is a big ukulele.:cool:

Hit the nail right on the head!

zztush
11-02-2016, 04:51 AM
................or, perhaps a guitar is a big ukulele.:cool:

Well said!

Rllink
11-02-2016, 05:41 AM
I think that some people try to turn their ukuleles into small guitars.

Booli
11-02-2016, 06:09 AM
I'm ok with 'small guitar' but when I see or hear 'toy guitar', then I consider this hostile and completely incorrect, and manifest of willful ignorance.

Having said that, I have a handful of ukes in perfect-fifths tunings now, so maybe a few are now more similar to mando-family than the guitar.

Michael N.
11-02-2016, 07:17 AM
Actually there is a renaissance guitar in a museum in Rome that is about the size of a Uke and a very attractive instrument it is too. It just has the strings doubled. Tuning of course would have been the same as the uke. Ultimately these things are all related, just variations on a common theme, which is why you can play uke music on a renaissance guitar and renaissance music on a uke.
Many people think that the tiny guitar known as the Guitalele is somehow a new invention. It isn't. There's a Panormo guitar that was made sometime around the mid 1800's that really is nothing more than a tiny guitar, a baby guitar. The first example of X - bracing (as in a steel string guitar) that I've come across is the bracing in a Cittern, which puts it at around 1780' ish. Way, way before Martin.
Shameless plug of a renaissance guitar that I made a few years ago. It's about the size of a baritone uke.

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g193/mignal/Renaissancefront.jpg (http://s56.photobucket.com/user/mignal/media/Renaissancefront.jpg.html)

JackLuis
11-02-2016, 07:30 AM
I tune my tenors dGBE and keep my baritone re-entrant too. So they don't sound like guitars.

Sven-Uke
11-02-2016, 07:40 AM
................or, perhaps a guitar is a big ukulele.:cool:

Dann.. I am too late..

DownUpDave
11-02-2016, 07:45 AM
It's the Portuguese who brought the uke to Hawaii.

Ok smart ass (relax folks we are good friends) you are correct

China introduced pasta to Italy..........but nobody thinks of China when they think of spagetti. Just like no one thinks of Portugal when they think of ukuleles So I thank the Hawaiian people for the ukulele just as zztush did.

With the beautiful complex pieces you play for Campbell I know you treat your ukes as small 4 string classical guitars.

Michael N.
11-02-2016, 07:52 AM
I tune my tenors dGBE and keep my baritone re-entrant too. So they don't sound like guitars.

Not much use. Baroque guitars had re-entrant tuning, at least some of them did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFXaRorc10U

Campanellas just means 'bells' or little bells, which is the effect you can achieve with the re-entrant.

SoloRule
11-02-2016, 08:57 AM
Ok smart ass (relax folks we are good friends) you are correct

China introduced pasta to Italy..........but nobody thinks of China when they think of spagetti. Just like no one thinks of Portugal when they think of ukuleles So I thank the Hawaiian people for the ukulele just as zztush did.

With the beautiful complex pieces you play for Campbell I know you treat your ukes as small 4 string classical guitars.


Small guitar gives you better respect. As downupdave told me once - call it FOUR STRINGS guitar that will stop people from asking stupid question like where is your grass skirt !
Ukulele really deserve a lot more respect ! People tend to judge it by the size. No one believe me when I said how much a uke can cost.
So my vote is [ FOUR STRINGS GUITAR] . As for the tuning - CAMSUKE (Campbell) said - just tune it to whatever the instrument is happy - that is of course if you are playing solo.

From your smart ass ! :o

Booli
11-02-2016, 09:13 AM
...
China introduced pasta to Italy..........but nobody thinks of China when they think of spagetti.

LOL

How about some Vermicelli Lo-mein? Moo-Goo Angel-Hair Gai-Pan?

With some Chicken Egg-Foo-Yung Parmesan? Vanilla Egg-roll Cannoli?

DownUpDave
11-02-2016, 09:20 AM
:smileybounce:
LOL

How about some Vermicelli Lo-mein? Moo-Goo Angel-Hair Gai-Pan?

With some Chicken Egg-Foo-Yung Parmesan? Vanilla Egg-roll Cannoli?

Booli.....you're making me hungry

Booli
11-02-2016, 10:22 AM
:smileybounce:

Booli.....you're making me hungry


yes me too - off topic but...

there use to be a restaurant near me that was setup inside kinda like the food court at the shopping mall, left side was a pizza joint and all manner of italian fare, and right side was Asian chinese/korean/thai/sushi/tempora fare...

it worked out great when a previous ex-girlfriend ALWAYS wanted Thai food (which wrecks my digestive system for days) or some exotic sushi, and I was happy with a slice of pizza or a chicken parm dinner, so we would go there a lot, and could each order our prefs, yet still sit and eat together...

eventually they closed down and got replaced by an 'Atlanta Bread Factory' which is fine, but I thought it was cool to be able to get such a wide variety of foods, all at the same restaurant like this...and have not seen one since....

...now I return you to the regularly scheduled discussion - please carry on....:)

Mivo
11-02-2016, 10:25 AM
I think that some people try to turn their ukuleles into small guitars.

I still feel that re-entrant tuning (rather than the tuning itself: there are many tunings for six-string guitars) is a core aspect of what makes a ukulele a ukulele, and I would also limit this to the smaller sizes only, because that is how the instrument was designed and configured at the time when it acquired the name "ukulele". It was a hybrid of the small, four-stringed machete (linear) and the five-stringed, larger rajăo (or another Portuguese instrument), which had a re-entrance tuning. I think the Taropatch Fiddle (five stringed uke) was initially also more popular on Hawaii, and it was mostly on the mainland where the four-string ukulele took off.

But it's really all just labels. I love the sound of (some) linear tenors, and they are fantastic instruments, regardless of whether they are "really" ukuleles or small tenor guitars. It has its own, distinctive sound (which to me is really nothing like a classical guitar's sound texture).

They are all stringed instrument and probably all go back to the same Arab stringed instrument that the guitar was derived from.

jollyboy
11-02-2016, 11:19 AM
For me the point is simply that I can play guitar music on my uke. It doesn't necessarily sound the same as it would if played on a guitar but it still sounds okay to me.

To me this is kind of a glass half-full/glass half-empty argument. You can choose to focus on the differences between the two instruments or you can focus on the similarities. Really, it's just a matter of perception.

Booli
11-02-2016, 11:46 AM
...
To me this is kind of a glass half-full/glass half-empty argument. You can choose to focus on the differences between the two instruments or you can focus on the similarities. Really, it's just a matter of perception.

Aye brother!


maybe we should go and just PLAY



whatever it's called?

bnolsen
11-02-2016, 11:52 AM
Aye brother!


maybe we should go and just PLAY



whatever it's called?


you were thinking of a banjo :D

Django
11-02-2016, 03:07 PM
The banjo gets a bad rap too. Every one wants to hear dueling banjos. The ukulele has people asking for Tip Toe Through The Tulips, (actually a very sweet song). Being a guitar and banjo player, I was hesitant to tell people that I like playing the ukulele best. I have stopped careing about the perception. It is that much better when they hear what you can do with one. There should be no shame. I feel that it is a wonderful instrument, definitely in the guitar family, but I don't think of it as a little guitar, just a close and more cheerful relative.

kaizersoza
11-03-2016, 02:30 AM
I'm old school, its a ukulele an instrument that stands alone like all instruments

SteveZ
11-03-2016, 02:47 AM
The banjo gets a bad rap too. Every one wants to hear dueling banjos. The ukulele has people asking for Tip Toe Through The Tulips, (actually a very sweet song). Being a guitar and banjo player, I was hesitant to tell people that I like playing the ukulele best. I have stopped careing about the perception. It is that much better when they hear what you can do with one. There should be no shame. I feel that it is a wonderful instrument, definitely in the guitar family, but I don't think of it as a little guitar, just a close and more cheerful relative.

Oh, yes. The "mandolin-banjo" feud (all in fun, most of the time) which appears on the mandolin forums can get downright silly.

The fact there are so many types/models/sizes of uke which happen to fit in and amongst other stringed instruments adds to the fun. I might never have touched a uke, but the need for a "travel mandolin" which could be played softly in hotel rooms and such led me to experiment with tuning a soprano uke to mandolin-standard GDAE. Once I found this possible, setting up size-convenient versions of octave mandolin, tenor guitar and tenor banjo were natural progressions. The acoustic output range differences from low-G GCEA to CGDA (popular tenor guitar/banjo tuning) and GDAE (also popular tuning tenor guitars/banjos for Irish Traditional Music) is minimal, making ukes easy to adapt to the fifths tuning system used with those other instruments.

When the sound comes out as one plays, it doesn't matter what label one places on the instrument.

Croaky Keith
11-03-2016, 04:03 AM
Music is music!

An instrument plays music, therefore it doesn't matter which instrument, but some may play certain tunes more easily than others.

No, a uke is not a guitar, though being a plucked/strummed stringed instrument, they do have some similarities.

Rllink
11-06-2016, 05:38 AM
Music is music!

An instrument plays music, therefore it doesn't matter which instrument, but some may play certain tunes more easily than others.

No, a uke is not a guitar, though being a plucked/strummed stringed instrument, they do have some similarities.I've asked this before and never gotten a definitive answer. What makes a ukulele a ukulele?

Croaky Keith
11-06-2016, 06:46 AM
I've asked this before and never gotten a definitive answer. What makes a ukulele a ukulele?

I think the only answer would be to be asked what makes a guitar a guitar, or a piano a piano, or a harpsichord a harpsichord. :)

It is what it is because that is what it was called. ;)

Very hard to define what makes it so. :D

To me, a uke is a small stringed instrument, that is plucked or strummed to make music. :music:

Mivo
11-06-2016, 07:41 AM
I've asked this before and never gotten a definitive answer. What makes a ukulele a ukulele?

When the instrument acquired the name "ukulele", it was a soprano-sized instrument with four strings, possibly with re-entrant tuning. The latter isn't entirely clear. In King's "Ukulele - A History", there is a (single) account of, if I recall correctly, a relative of Nunes who said in the early 20th century that the original tuning in the 1880s was that of a machete (linear DGBD). The earliest teaching book was for both the taropatch fiddle and the ukulele, and in that book the tuning given was re-entrant gCEA. Later "methods" altered between C, D and Eb tuning, all re-entrant.

Whether that was the common tuning or the writer just figured it's easiest to standardize the tuning of both instruments (the taropatch had 5 strings and was about concert-sized, apparently tuned DGCEA like a rajao, and was different from what people call taropatch today) and maximize the number of potential buyers by covering two instruments, I don't know. He was certainly a salesman type of person who actively promoted himself as the foremost international authority in all things ukulele.

"Ukulele - A History" is an outstanding book. I can only recommend it. Life, markting, and the commercial hype machine weren't all that different in the late 19th and early 20th century than they are today - that was one of the things I took from that book.

Rllink
11-06-2016, 07:59 AM
I think the only answer would be to be asked what makes a guitar a guitar, or a piano a piano, or a harpsichord a harpsichord. :)

It is what it is because that is what it was called. ;)

Very hard to define what makes it so. :D

To me, a uke is a small stringed instrument, that is plucked or strummed to make music. :music:

Yes, that does describe the ukulele, but it also describes lots of other small stringed instruments. In fact, it does describe all small stringed instruments. A far as quitars, pianos, and harpsicords, I would have no idea what defines them, but I don't play them, so it is not really relevant. Anyway, it isn't a big deal, and I think your observations that the are because we call them that is very true.



When the instrument acquired the name "ukulele", it was a soprano-sized instrument with four strings, possibly with re-entrant tuning. The latter isn't entirely clear. In King's "Ukulele - A History", there is a (single) account of, if I recall correctly, a relative of Nunes who said in the early 20th century that the original tuning in the 1880s was that of a machete (linear DGBD). The earliest teaching book was for both the taropatch fiddle and the ukulele, and in that book the tuning given was re-entrant gCEA. Later "methods" altered between C, D and Eb tuning, all re-entrant.

Whether that was the common tuning or the writer just figured it's easiest to standardize the tuning of both instruments (the taropatch had 5 strings and was about concert-sized, apparently tuned DGCEA like a rajao, and was different from what people call taropatch today) and maximize the number of potential buyers by covering two instruments, I don't know. He was certainly a salesman type of person who actively promoted himself as the foremost international authority in all things ukulele.

"Ukulele - A History" is an outstanding book. I can only recommend it. Life, marketing, and the commercial hype machine weren't all that different in the late 19th and early 20th century than they are today - that was one of the things I took from that book.I think that would be a good book for me to read.

jddennis
11-17-2016, 03:42 AM
I think the ukulele has a lot of overlap with the acoustic guitar, but I tend to think of them as different instruments for three reasons.

The first is based on how the ukuleles are made. The material that goes into making the body is much lighter than a guitar's. They be made out the same woods, but the material has to be thinner, particularly the sound board. There's less bracing that goes into a ukulele. There's less tension in the strings we use, too.

Second, there's a difference in technique. Yes, you can borrow a lot of techniques from the guitar for the ukulele (and vice versa). But, in my thinking, the ukulele's strumming technique is more percussive than the guitar's strumming technique. Chunking and the Formby triplet strums wouldn't be something I'd think of using on the guitar. Well, now I chunk on guitar, but the Formby triplet wouldn't work in my opinion.

Third, there's a difference in how the music is written in standard notation. They both use the "G" (treble) clef for standard music notation, but that's not a true representation for guitar. The guitar's sound is actually an octave lower than how it's written. When you look at a ukulele stave, it's written true to tone.

As an aside, because of differences in technique and timbre, I typically think that acoustic guitars and electric guitars should be treated as different instruments, too.

Hms
11-21-2016, 03:50 AM
Going back to renaissance guitars, how about some Lutes and Ukes?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MM4Rs5Hg7rc

Went and saw the show a couple of years ago, primarily comparing the two Robert Johnsons. The first was William Shakespeare's lute player the second he of the crossroads. At times it was difficult to tell which Johnson was being played.
And with all the instruments on stage, the oldest was a Martin that George had!
It was a brilliant thought provoking show.

It was called Lutes 'n' Ukes -- Robert Johnson & Robert Johnson. The lutes being played by Theatre of the Ayr. There are some other videos around of the show.
h

Down Up Dick
11-21-2016, 07:59 AM
Is a trumpet a small tuba? Is a violin a small stand up string bass? Is a clarinet a small bassoon? Is a snare drum a small bass drum? Is a soprano a small basso profundo?

Am I getting more and more silly as I age? Ahhh, well . . . It happens. :old:

Debussychopin
11-21-2016, 03:57 PM
Is a tres cubano just a uke with a missing string??

VELARCA
12-12-2016, 05:13 PM
Hey, and what about mexican stringed instruments...
Vihuela. 5 strings
Quinta 5 strings
Requinto 6 strings
Jarana huasteca 5 strings
Mosquito 4 double
Guitarra leona 4 strings
Guitarra conchera made with an armadillo shell and 5 double strings....
Some of them are re entrant tuned, some linear, don't know much about them, only that they were used in the corridos music much like the cigarbox guitarra, they originally were made by the player, and now they are used in the mariachi and folklórico bands...

kkimura
12-13-2016, 03:24 AM
Actually, guitars are obese ukuleles. Dread naught guitars are morbidly obese guitars.

Django
12-13-2016, 05:36 AM
See message below

Django
12-13-2016, 04:11 PM
The ukulele, like the guitar is part of the lute family. So the ukulele is not a small guitar, it is a small lute and a cousin of the guitar.

Debussychopin
12-13-2016, 06:34 PM
A ukulele is a cute guitar.


At least that is what my wife says.



I didn't say it.

Croaky Keith
12-13-2016, 10:25 PM
A uke is a uke - never a guitar - even the baritone. :)

Rutger
12-13-2016, 11:43 PM
I agree.

I've been a guitarplayer for allmost 30 years now (ouch, that old...) and just started to play the ukulele more seriously about a year ago (allways strummed it a bit, never took it too seriously). Allthough the musical knowledge and experience helps, obviously, I was continually trying to apply my guitar knowledge and skills to the ukulele. That wasn't working for two reasons: than you just sound like the guitarplayer who tries to play guitar on a uke; and continiously translate chords and notes etc. is too time consuming and confusing. When I desided to forget about all that and to approach the uke as a whole new instrument and to start form the beginning, everything started to work out. Even the strumming techniques, it looks just the same at first and the differences are subtle, but that makes it well, just a whole lot different. :)

coolkayaker1
12-14-2016, 12:44 AM
Is the ukulele a small guitar?

Of course it is.

Rutger
12-14-2016, 01:27 AM
That's about the same as stating that a violin is just a small archtop guitar

Mivo
12-14-2016, 02:58 AM
When I desided to forget about all that and to approach the uke as a whole new instrument and to start form the beginning, everything started to work out

Good observation. I'm only about to get some first hand experience with this (bought a 24" parlor guitar), but I'm thinking along the same lines and switched my tenor ukulele back to re-entrant tuning to emphasize the difference between my ukes and the guitar. When the uke was my only instrument, I tried to keep one tenor in low-G and the other in high-G (the sopranos are in high-G anyway). Not sure how that will work out, but I believe that re-entrant tuning does make a ukulele what it is, at least to a degree (yes, I always do carry my asbestos suit in my oversized ukulele case), and I want to focus on the strengths of each instrument/tuning system.

@Coolkayaker: Happy to see you post more again! Missed your presence around here!

stevepetergal
12-17-2016, 03:53 AM
That's about the same as stating that a violin is just a small archtop guitar

This makes no sense to me.

Rllink
12-17-2016, 04:30 AM
This makes no sense to me.
Me neither.

Django
12-17-2016, 05:23 AM
The guitar and ukulele are both members of the lute family. Crows and Eagles are both birds, but a crow is not a small eagle.

Nickie
12-17-2016, 07:20 AM
The guitar and ukulele are both members of the lute family. Crows and Eagles are both birds, but a crow is not a small eagle.

Best explanation so far!

Mivo
12-17-2016, 08:00 AM
The relationship between guitars and ukuleles is more like the one between horses and ponies. They are really not that different, much more similar than, say, ukulele and violin even though the latter is of comparable size and has four strings.

I'm glad they are so similar, too. Now that I have a steel string (parlor) guitar too, I appreciate that they overlap in some skill areas, like using PIMA. That wouldn't happen with a violin.

Rllink
12-17-2016, 08:26 AM
The guitar and ukulele are both members of the lute family. Crows and Eagles are both birds, but a crow is not a small eagle.Anyone out there tried making their crow more like an eagle yet? I've been thinking about it. ;)

Booli
12-17-2016, 01:06 PM
Actually, guitars are obese ukuleles. Dread naught guitars are morbidly obese guitars.

As a 'reformed' guitar player who now prefers ukulele, I can definitely agree with this assessment. Anything bigger than a baritone feels like hard work to hold and play.

I still have a 4/4 size upright double-bass (which is nearly 7 feet tall), and which I plan to sell, since my baritone-sized Rondo Hadean uke bass accomplishes the same thing (for my songwriting), and I have no plans to play in a jazz ensemble or orchestra where that size of a soundbox or the 60" scale length is required.

In time, as arthritis and other hand problems will eventually limit my manual dexterity, I expect that I will pair down from a spectrum of different-sized and scale length ukes, to only one size, likely concert or soprano (right now I play mostly tenors, but sprinkle the others in as needed), but hopefully I will not have to face that until my 'old age' LOL. :)

Booli
12-17-2016, 01:11 PM
... That wouldn't happen with a violin.

When I was about 7 yrs old (40 yrs ago), my first instrument was violin, but then moved to piano and other instruments after that. With recently getting interested in tuning in fifths, and having a few ukes in CGDA and GDAE tuning, I gave some thought to getting a decent but cheap violin or viola, but the learning curve with the bowing technique, and the horrible screeching sounds while doing so, has really put me off that idea.

Booli
12-17-2016, 01:15 PM
Anyone out there tried making their crow more like an eagle yet? I've been thinking about it. ;)
If you can get the bird to hold still long enough, you might be able to use some spray-paint to make the crow LOOK like an eagle.

I do not think it would be healthy (or fair) for the crow though.

Just dont do it outside where the crow can call for help, for there is a reason they call a large gathering of crows a 'Murder of Crows' (as in like a flock of sheep, swarm of bees, etc) :)

Django
12-17-2016, 02:28 PM
If you love the crow there is no need to make it into an eagle. If you want an eagle, that is what you should get, (yes,the crow is a ukulele and the eagle is a guitar).

JackLuis
12-17-2016, 05:18 PM
The Uke is a Uke, it has four strings and is small enough play easily. The guitar has six strings and a much bigger body. They both have their purposes. I like the sound of both, but I can play a Uke.

Mivo
12-17-2016, 06:29 PM
In time, as arthritis and other hand problems will eventually limit my manual dexterity, I expect that I will pair down from a spectrum of different-sized and scale length ukes, to only one size, likely concert or soprano (right now I play mostly tenors, but sprinkle the others in as needed), but hopefully I will not have to face that until my 'old age' LOL. :)

Merle Travis played guitar even at 90, and faster than most young guys can. :)

I have to say I really like my new steel string parlor guitar (24"). It doesn't overlap much with my ukulele playing (deliberately went for steel strings, because I figured that nylon string guitars would overlap more with my ukes), and it's a fun experience. It's my first guitar, and I don't plan to collect them like I did with ukes for a while. All my ukes are re-entrant tuned again now also, since the guitar completely meets my "need" for a fuller sound. These things can definitely coexist and benefit each other mutually.

stevepetergal
12-18-2016, 01:32 AM
That's about the same as stating that a violin is just a small archtop guitar

A piano is not a big harpsichord.
An organ is not a big piano.
A saxophone is sort of a big flute.
A string bass really is a big violin.
An ukulele is a little guitar.

Rllink
12-18-2016, 04:29 AM
If you can get the bird to hold still long enough, you might be able to use some spray-paint to make the crow LOOK like an eagle.

I do not think it would be healthy (or fair) for the crow though.

Just dont do it outside where the crow can call for help, for there is a reason they call a large gathering of crows a 'Murder of Crows' (as in like a flock of sheep, swarm of bees, etc) :)
Anybody know who carries eagle feathers, and if you can change out the crow feathers with eagle feathers, or if you have to do anything to get them to work? I prefer real eagle feathers. Also, I'm looking for talons and a hooked beak that will fit a crow. Any help would be appreciated.

Django
12-18-2016, 05:04 AM
OK, I should not have used the crow-eagle analogy, but I do like the comments. Does it matter? We differentiate and catagorize almost everything and I think that a traditional ukulele has many attributes that differentiates it from a guitar, (tuning, size, origin etc.). I'm stranded in the airport in Detroit, so UU is my entertainment.

JackLuis
12-18-2016, 05:57 AM
OK, I should not have used the crow-eagle analogy, but I do like the comments. Does it matter? We differentiate and catagorize almost everything and I think that a traditional ukulele has many attributes that differentiates it from a guitar, (tuning, size, origin etc.). I'm stranded in the airport in Detroit, so UU is my entertainment.

Sorry to hear that Django. I just looked at the Weather Channel when I got up it seems Global Warming has lost that fight with the Polar Vortex. We had frost in Sacramento the two last nights! Just when my oranges were coming on ripe too. I hope you have a uke with you to entertain the frozen.

Mivo
12-18-2016, 07:49 AM
We differentiate and catagorize almost everything and I think that a traditional ukulele has many attributes that differentiates it from a guitar, (tuning, size, origin etc.).

I agree with that. Even "guitar" is too generic a term. A classical guitar and an acoustic guitar are not the same thing, nor are a dreadnought and a tenor guitar, for example. I feel that a ukulele can be called a "small guitar", but I use "guitar" more like a family name here. Calling it "ukulele" removes the need for any further explanations, unless it's a low-4th ukulele.

LarryS
12-18-2016, 09:07 AM
The ukulele is a compound chordophone in the lute family, which also includes guitars and harps. So yea it kind of is

LarryS
12-18-2016, 09:10 AM
I agree with that. Even "guitar" is too generic a term. A classical guitar and an acoustic guitar are not the same thing,.

I always find it odd that classical and steel string guitar (folk guitar) are separated. They're both acoustic guitars.

Rllink
12-18-2016, 09:21 AM
If someone could define a ukulele, perhaps we could say, but I have yet had anyone give me a definitive description of a ukulele. So without knowing what a ukulele is, beyond that it is a lute of some sort, how can we ever determine the relationship to a guitar?

Mivo
12-18-2016, 09:28 AM
I always find it odd that classical and steel string guitar (folk guitar) are separated. They're both acoustic guitars.

Steel strings and nylon/gut strings are very different in sound. Acoustic/SS guitars and classical guitars are also built differently, I believe, and have their own techniques. Even the way they are commonly held differs. (I play my steel string parlor guitar like a classical guitar, because I'm used to that neck position from playing ukulele. Having the guitar sitting almost horizontally on my right leg feels really off to me and limits my range. But I can see how that would work better with, say, a 27-29" scale like some dreadnought sport.) Steel string acoustic guitars are sort of like ukuleles in that "do whatever works" way, whereas classical guitars have more dogma surrounding them.

In German, both fall into a category called "Akkustikgitarren", with steel string ones called "Westerngitarren" (referring to them having originated in the west: the US) and classical guitars called "Konzertgitarren". It's probably more descriptive.

VELARCA
12-18-2016, 01:33 PM
If someone could define a ukulele, perhaps we could say, but I have yet had anyone give me a definitive description of a ukulele. So without knowing what a ukulele is, beyond that it is a lute of some sort, how can we ever determine the relationship to a guitar?
They are cousins, but a long time ago a family feud grow them apart, now, they only speak each other in Christmas an Thanksgiving, so, to make a long story short.... They're part o a normal family....

Rakelele
12-19-2016, 12:04 AM
If anyone wants to look at the ukulele as a small guitar, that's perfectly fine. Most people are more familiar with guitars than with ukes, and for some of them, this might even help approaching the instrument (as long as it isn't dismissed as a toy and just for kids). Actually, this is how I got to learn about the ukulele, and coming from the guitar made it fairly easy to play.

It's not that I wouldn't care about the history of the 'Ukulele; but more important than its origin, its pedigree, or its label, to me, is where it can be taken. I love to explore different sounds, different sizes, different woods, different strings, different tunings, and I think it's great that makers and players all over the world are pushing the boundaries of this little instrument, no matter what it is labeled.

kkimura
12-19-2016, 04:58 AM
Actually, a guitar is a large ukulele with extra strings. Given that it has no fret board, strings, body or neck, a trumpet is a poor copy of a ukulele. Therefore, ukuleles stand alone in the center of the musical universe.

(imho, ymmv)

Django
12-19-2016, 03:50 PM
After putting a set of Bari-Tenor strings on my Kiwaya KMT-K, I would say that the ukulele in that tuning could be considered a small classical reentrant tenor guitar. I guess my crow has become an eagle after all. A label or name is really unimportant to me. I won't know what to think when my tiple gets here. Is it a confused mandolin, incomplete and small 12 string guitar, an Americanized Columbian instrument missing 2 strings, or a steal string ukulele with 6 extra strings?

Rrgramps
12-20-2016, 06:43 AM
More than 50 years ago, I started playing first guitar, then bass in a rock band. Ukuleles were not in my vision back then, but would've been if I had known that George Harrison played and cherished the ukulele. So I waited until this last year to pick up one of these "kid's toys," and discovered they are not just toys, and are actually able to produce meaningful music. I'm now a convert, from guitar to ukulele.

To me, playing a ukulele is very much like a scaled down, stripped down Guitar; except for the drone "G" string on the ukulele, when in gcea tuning. The chord shapes are the same, but in a higher key. It takes a little re-thinking which key your in, but it's familiar enough for a guitarist to pick up fairly quick. I could get lost though, if I tried to accompany a guitarist in a jam session, by looking at his fretboard and playing the appropriate chords. I'd have to have a lead sheet with ukulele chords until I could memorize or get the song down pat without looking at the sheet on a music stand. In my old age, it's more necessary to have a music stand.

I'm looking forward to someday getting a baritone ukulele, and seeing if that makes the guitar feeling more complete. However, I kind of like that skinny "g" string -- on my ukulele.

While a ukulele is not a small guitar in sound, it is like a small guitar in regards to chord shapes and fingering certain melodies and riffs. The learning curve to basic playing is greatly simplified if you are an accomplished guitarist.

delmar500
12-31-2016, 05:48 AM
No. We are native!

Renaissance guitar is our common ancestor. Renaissance guitar has four courses. We keep GCEA, which is one of the best tuning for string instruments, over 400 years. John King has taken this tuning advantage on ukulele and revived a playing technique from the Baroque era.



We are main building and guitar has annex. Our tuning has come earlier than guitar tuning. C, G and F keys are all easy to play on ukulele. Guitar's tuning is shifted to sharp. Even F key, which has F and Bb chords, is difficult to play on guitar. Wound string has allowed guitar to add 6th string. Low G does not mean surrender. Thank you very much Hawaiian people to introduce us such nice music instrument.
I had this conversation with my son in law last year when I was building my first cigar box guitar. "if it has four strings, why is it not a uke"?