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Timbuck
11-03-2016, 03:46 AM
One of my Soprano's is missing ..collected by the courier service on its way to Spain more than 2 weeks ago...Last tracking location was The airport at Hounslow where it disappeared from the radar...The courier service have been searching for it for 5 days with no luck up to now...it looks as if I'll have to send a replacement to the customer..

signing off ... KEN TIMMS pissed off with courier companies :mad:

Andyk
11-03-2016, 04:12 AM
you have my sympathy (fat lot of use it is but hey).
My experience with couriers is that when something "goes missing" they never bother to look very hard for it ... if at all.
Don't let the bastards get you down...

orangeena
11-03-2016, 04:39 AM
It will be that proposed 3rd runway causing the problem

ksquine
11-03-2016, 06:13 AM
better make it more incognito next time. I hear your fans are hanging around fedex offices now

Michael N.
11-03-2016, 06:51 AM
No, they've looked on a computer screen and probably seen as much information as you have. Afraid no search parties have been sent out.
There's still a chance it will turn up but that chance becomes a touch less after each passing day.

Pete Howlett
11-03-2016, 10:56 PM
Fully insure every time - no cost to you if the couriers screw up!

Timbuck
11-03-2016, 11:59 PM
Fully insure every time - no cost to you if the couriers screw up!

Courior companies don't cover musical instruments they are on the excluded list.... see here https://www.myhermes.co.uk/help/carry-guide.html all the couriors do this in the UK.....In fact just about everything that you want to ship.

Further to this when you book the shipping service, the company will recommend that you fully cover the item to it's full value..even tho its on the excluded list, so they can scam some extra cash.:(

Hms
11-04-2016, 01:36 AM
Ken,
your claim is not for damage, but loss of the package whilst in their care, possibly negligence.
Have you tried that approach?
h

Michael N.
11-04-2016, 02:15 AM
Ken is correct. The couriers started placing musical instruments on the excluded list around 10 years ago. At the time I enquired why they had started doing this. 'Too many very badly packed Ebay instruments being claimed on' was the reply. Given some of the packing I've seen at my local Post Office and I must admit that they have a point. They damage or misplace well packed items though.
One of the few couriers that do give cover is UPS. In fact I was shocked that they did, to the point that I've phoned them a couple of times just to clarify. I'm still not 100% convinced though!
One of the quickest overseas deliveries I've had was UK to Austria. Collected 2 pm, signed for at the other end at 12:30 pm in Graz the very next day. That's fast but boy did it cost him a lot to get that service!
You can get separate cover through insurance companies but you'll need to be sending enough instruments to justify the annual fee.

Timbuck
11-04-2016, 03:28 AM
Ken,
your claim is not for damage, but loss of the package whilst in their care, possibly negligence.
Have you tried that approach?
h
The've got that one covered as well Howard Excluded items are goods which Hermes will carry but, are sent at your own risk. Hermes will not compensate you for loss, damage or late delivery of Excluded Items.

Andyk
11-04-2016, 03:46 AM
Not that I am encouraging people to tell porkies ... but ... When specifying the contents can you not list it as a "wooden toy". Firstly people who don't know much about ukuleles see one and say "oh is that for your kid?" and secondly a toy is "played" and so is a ukulele. It's not going to cover you for damage but if it is lost in transit then how are they to know what it is? The added advantage of using "wooden toy" is that nobody in the courier's warehouse is going to pinch it.
Not saying I'd do it but...

Michael N.
11-04-2016, 03:48 AM
Perhaps there is an airport handler who's locked himself (or herself) in an airport cupboard, Uke in hand, warbling away blissfully.
Stranger things have happened.

Michael N.
11-04-2016, 03:51 AM
Not that I am encouraging people to tell porkies ... but ... When specifying the contents can you not list it as a "wooden toy". Firstly people who don't know much about ukuleles see one and say "oh is that for your kid?" and secondly a toy is "played" and so is a ukulele. It's not going to cover you for damage but if it is lost in transit then how are they to know what it is? The added advantage of using "wooden toy" is that nobody in the courier's warehouse is going to pinch it.
Not saying I'd do it but...

It wouldn't work on damaged items, they usually want to see some evidence. On missing items. . . . there is no evidence, it has gone missing!

Andyk
11-04-2016, 04:33 AM
mind you ... The insurance value of one of Ken's ukes is very reasonable ... might have to explain why a wooden toy is insurred for several hundred quid. However anyone who has ever spoken to someone at a courier company about a lost item will probably know that they are not the brightest/motivated people on earth (yes, sweeping generalisations is my speciality).

Timbuck
11-04-2016, 06:46 AM
mind you ... The insurance value of one of Ken's ukes is very reasonable ... might have to explain why a wooden toy is insurred for several hundred quid. However anyone who has ever spoken to someone at a courier company about a lost item will probably know that they are not the brightest/motivated people on earth (yes, sweeping generalisations is my speciality).
When you have to go to the depot to pay the import duty on an item, then you can see where the brightest/motivated poeple work.

Hms
11-04-2016, 01:03 PM
The've got that one covered as well Howard Excluded items are goods which Hermes will carry but, are sent at your own risk. Hermes will not compensate you for loss, damage or late delivery of Excluded Items.


I'd still have a go at it Ken, at least get you costs back, then use a proper courier next time. Hermes do not have a good reputation! They can say you are not covered, but that does not absolve them from their duty of care for you item. You cannot insure for negligence! If you get no joy, keep escalating, send an email to the MD, this may help:

http://www.ceoemail.com/s.php?id=ceo-9539

Mya Moe ship using UPS, costs $110 but worth it, insured and trackable. Gordon ships using a local UPS store, in the UK they are known as Mail Boxes Etc., Contact you local store and see if you can cut a deal to get a better rate for international shipments. Or even just talk to them about the best way of shipping. (Take the size and weight of the shipment for them to work out rates.)

With your ukes being in demand, I don't think you should have any issues with having to charge more for shipping.

h

stevejfc
11-04-2016, 01:36 PM
I really feel for you brother.................I don't have an answer, but if it was me, I would keep the heat on them. Don't let them off the hook.....facebook , twitter, any similar on line group, .........a bad review takes years to overcome.

Michael N.
11-04-2016, 10:08 PM
That won't do much good. Hermes have already got a few million bad reviews. Everyone still uses them though.

Timbuck
11-04-2016, 10:45 PM
I've been looking at the UPS site and they do ship musical instruments overseas ..But! It costs approx 50 with compensation up to 100 for damage or 1000 for lost items...but the instrument must be in a hard case prior to packing...
This means adding about another 100 quid on the price .:uhoh:

I've got to give credit tho' to Hermes they did supply tracking to the given address Asendia courior service at Hounslow..Asendia were then supposed to ship it on to Portugal.

Michael N.
11-05-2016, 03:44 AM
It costs me 200 to ship a guitar to the states. That does not include the packaging or the hard case, just the packaging adds another 25 to it. There are cheaper ways but I'm not going to wait around for a week or so worrying about whether it's got there safely.
I'd never ship an instrument without a hard case anyway. Seems to me that is asking for trouble. A cheaper way might be to line the inside of a stout cardboard box with thin plywood and send the uke in a foam case. You can get sheets of thin ply pretty cheaply. At the end of the day the customer has to pay, there's no two ways about it. Either that or you continue to take the risk. At least if you send a hardcase it's not like they are getting nothing for the extra 50, they are getting a hard case. You can (but should not) charge cost price. I shouldn't tell you about the 450 Kingham case that I ordered and accidently put a small scratch in the outer cover. That scratch cost me 150, which is probably why you should charge a little more than cost price.

Kevs-the-name
11-05-2016, 05:20 AM
Would these help? Ive used one for posting a Soprano. 24 delivered.
Work out cheeper than a pod case (and more secure)
I think most people would be happy to include this in the price of a ukulele. (it also means you get a case with your new ukulele purchase!)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kinsman-Regular-Hardshell-Soprano-Ukulele/dp/B005F40SO4/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1478358665&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=kingsman+hard+case+soprano

Timbuck
11-05-2016, 05:44 AM
Would these help? Ive used one for posting a Soprano. 24 delivered.
Work out cheeper than a pod case (and more secure)
I think most people would be happy to include this in the price of a ukulele. (it also means you get a case with your new ukulele purchase!)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kinsman-Regular-Hardshell-Soprano-Ukulele/dp/B005F40SO4/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1478358665&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=kingsman+hard+case+soprano
About 5 years back you could buy those for less than 10 I used to to buy them at a dozen a time and sold them inclusive with the uke price....then for some strange reason the price tripled....I think some greedy supplier found out that ukuleles were getting popular.

Pete Howlett
11-05-2016, 08:18 AM
I use UPS - to ship a ukulele abroad costs about 45. The insurance is usually between 30 and 50 depending on value. I ship in a hard case and use a double wall cardboard box which I have made specially for me. Professionally packed, accurately described I have had no loses or mis-deliveries and best of all no-damage....

One of the reasons I took down the 134 vids I had on YouTube was criticism of my pieces on things like packaging for shipping and correct method of string tying. Being ridiculed for addressing these issues made me realise that not everyone wants to learn from those more experienced than themselves..... doesn't apply to you Ken of course :)

Nevertheless, and back on topic, when providing a service, absolutely everything has to be considered, right down to packing and shipping. If a client is prepared to pay good money for a uke, they will do likewise for the protection of fully insured shipping!

Mivo
11-05-2016, 08:31 AM
As a customer who receives quite a few parcels, most of my experiences with Hermes have been bad or unpleasant, which is why I skip ebay sellers or shops that use Hermes as the delivery service. I greatly prefer sellers that use DHL, or to a lesser degree UPS and Fedex.

Michael N.
11-05-2016, 09:35 AM
Well DHL UK are hopeless, at least the DHL in my area. I've used them around 8 to 10 times. Four times they failed to show up on the day. Another time they showed up two days early! and then failed to turn up on the correct day, even though I asked them to make sure that it would be rebooked for that day. I gave up on them, I was losing too much time waiting for them to show up. Then I switched to another courier who delivered a parcel to the wrong address. How that can happen in the day of printed barcode labels and satnav beats me. That courier firm went bust. Fedex have been OK, Parcelforce OK, UPS has never missed a collection. Even if they charge more I will always try to book UPS. Thart's not to say that UPS is perfect, just that in my local area they have always been prompt. I even once booked a collection the very same day, just one hour after booking it their van turned up at my door.
Hermes use private individuals for their collection and delivery. They don't have their own delivery vans. It makes them cheap because they don't have to deal with a whole fleet of deliver vehicles, the insurance, maintenance and all the other stuff involved with having a fleet. All that is left to the self-employed driver with his own vehicle. They aren't paid a lot, all things considering. I wouldn't use them for expensive items. Their model sounds like it's a race to the bottom, to be as competitive as possible. They are cheap, which is why they have grown so fast in the UK. Plenty of stuff on ebay are shipped with Hermes for the very reason that they are the cheapest, or at least one of the cheapest.

Mivo
11-05-2016, 09:52 AM
UPS seem to be the most internationally consistent, by the sound of it. DHL in Germany is really awesome, but it's also our regular mail service here (formerly German Post) so they "inherited" the entire postal infrastructure. Earlier this year, I got a parcel from the UK via DPD which was picked up on a Monday afternoon and arrived at noon on Wednesday. I was quite impressed by that; less than 48 hours from the UK to Germany without excessive cost.

Pete Howlett
11-05-2016, 11:23 AM
Offering a fully insured service you have to use UPS. In my area the service is sub-contracted. This equates to complete unreliability! I book through trans global and pick the earliest collection time so if they don't turn up which regularly happens with the driver subsequently lying to his superiors that we weren't there for pick-up we can get trans global to follow up. As soon as UPS gets the package it goes well for us. REMEMBER items valued over $2500 going to US need APHIS forms and your customer will have to pick up in person and show ID! If you need help preparing these docs I have an example. However you wouldn't believe the number of $2450 guitars that get shipped by leading guitar makers :) Good job my ukes aren't in that category yet :)

BearMakingNoises
11-06-2016, 05:27 AM
I know when I am finally able to buy a Timms I will pay full shipping and insurance to Japan. I think that if you buy a fine instrument you should be willing to pay those costs along with the instrument cost.

Michael N.
11-06-2016, 06:59 AM
Well I suppose going to collect it in person would cost a whole lot more! Actually that's true even within the same country, providing the distance is 100 miles or more. If you take into account fuel costs and time it's really much easier to sit in the comfort of your own home playing a uke and waiting for that delivery truck to show up.

Timbuck
11-10-2016, 02:55 AM
Latest update ...I found out that the uke was sent to Portugal instead of Spain and is lying around waiting for someone to redirect it...Cock up down to Asendia courier service.

tobinsuke
11-10-2016, 05:12 AM
I'm surprised (and happy) that it was located at all.

pritch
11-10-2016, 12:29 PM
I found out that the uke was sent to Portugal instead of Spain

Close, but no cigar? I'm pleased you found it.

Timbuck
11-10-2016, 10:07 PM
Close, but no cigar? I'm pleased you found it.
It's not found yet we just know what route it took ..a search party is still out there.

Vespa Bob
11-11-2016, 04:15 AM
After following this thread I was relieved to hear that my little teardrop arrived safe and sound at its destination across the country yesterday. I'm sure your's will turn up, Ken.

Bob

Michael N.
11-11-2016, 05:03 AM
Now lets think about this. Spain, 5 letters, begins with S. Portugal. 8 letters, begins with P.
What could possibly go wrong?

Timbuck
12-22-2016, 11:34 AM
Happy Xmas everybody ...Good news ...after 3 months the Soprano has somehow reached the owner ..and in perfect undamaged condition.:smileybounce::smileybounce:

mainger
12-22-2016, 02:19 PM
Happy Xmas everybody ...Good news ...after 3 months the Soprano has somehow reached the owner ..and in perfect undamaged condition.

That's a real good news! Christmas miracle!

Andyk
12-22-2016, 10:51 PM
if you perform one more miracle will that make you Saint Timbuck?

Dan Gleibitz
12-22-2016, 11:09 PM
Great news. Must have a lot of stamps in its passport by now.

Hms
12-22-2016, 11:45 PM
Great stuff.
I suppose it's now a travel uke!
h

resoman
12-23-2016, 09:07 AM
Congratulations Ken and Merry Christmas to you Sir!! :cheers:

Barbablanca
12-23-2016, 09:53 AM
Great to see this story had a happy ending.