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Pete Howlett
12-13-2016, 01:26 PM
Someone just emailed me for 'free' information. I replied it would cost them $50... or they could do a proper search for it couldn't they? I'm constantly amused but people who think that I am some sort of public service. How do they think I earn a living - giving it away? Sheeesh!

mzuch
12-13-2016, 02:27 PM
I suggest that you refer them to this board, where many of us will be happy to provide information without charge.

Choirguy
12-13-2016, 03:43 PM
I guess it all depends on your state of mind. Pete, I don't have any issue with people who feel as if they should be paid for their time. Most of my professional "hobby" (work that does not generate income) is technology in music education, and I feel as if I am giving back to the profession through my work--which includes 1-on-1 e-mails and training sessions. But that doesn't add to the bank account, either.

My guess is that the questions were about ukulele building--if it was a potential buyer, the need to please the customer would come first.

I would do what you likely did--write an e-mail back and explain the value of your time, and offer 1-on-1 counseling for a fee for a specific period of time.

Dan Gleibitz
12-13-2016, 04:17 PM
Probably an admirer of you & your work inspired by your story to begin his/her own journey, who reached out to make contact with somebody he looks up to using the common small-talk method of asking a question.


Probably not so much an admirer now.

printer2
12-13-2016, 04:25 PM
I went back to school after 18 years working in a factory. It was a technical course and the second year I had an instructor that gave the basics of the labs and after that the students were expected to go to the file cabinets and pull up the manufacturer manuals of the equipment we we going to use. We fumbled our way through stuff, troubleshot our mistakes, looked up stuff on the net, it was a good learning experience. Years later I got hired on as the tech for the department. One of the other instructors teaching an electronic communications class had to fly off and I watched over his classes for the day.

The class taking a different second year discipline came in, I told them the instructions were on the board. One of the first things that you had to do was From windows go into a dos shell (mimics an older machine) to run the software they needed to do the lab. Half the class didn't listen and tried running it in Windows, some asked questions and when I looked at the documentation for the lab I found what they were asking for in the notes. The next class which was going through the course I did came in, I told them the instructions were on the board, they all went into a dos shell, read their lab material, barely had to answer a question.The first class was used to getting spoon fed with fill in the blank labs. The second were used to getting an outline and figuring out what was needed to do the labs themselves. The graduates of our course got snapped up right after graduation as the employers knew they were getting guys that could think for themselves. Some of the employers were grads of the same course and knew what they were getting. The instructor taught the course for 33 years, decided that was long enough as some grads kids were coming through the course.

I have trained people, taught the same course I took. Told the students don't bellyache to me about the course load, I took the same course and I sat right there, pointing at my old seat. I have always been good with sharing information, documented much of my guitar learning experience for all to see, mistakes and all. I have been asked questions on the electronic side of the guitar world, tube amps particularly. Sometimes my answers were just enough to point people in the right direction, sometimes adding Google can be your friend at times. Sometimes people need to learn that they can figure things out themselves. The get more confident when they know they can.

DPO
12-13-2016, 04:31 PM
Does the phrase about Glass houses ring any bells? :rolleyes:

sequoia
12-13-2016, 06:28 PM
Probably not so much an admirer now.

No probably not... But Pete, couldn't you have maybe politely redirected them instead of demanding payment for information or even, dare I say this, helped them? There is this thing called good will and goodwill has its own rewards beyond monetary remuneration. Try it. It can be surprisingly rewarding.

Kevdog
12-13-2016, 06:46 PM
Just have him contact us at KinnardUkes. We'll be glad to answer his question.

gabefranco
12-13-2016, 07:01 PM
Going through life with the notion that every interaction has to be a business transaction seems very unpleasant to me.

cml
12-13-2016, 07:17 PM
Remind me again, how much did you pay each luthier on your info gathering trip?

saltytri
12-13-2016, 07:23 PM
A couple of days ago, a local high school student asked if I could help her find a mentor for her senior project. This couldn't be just anyone, as her project will explore a specific scientific discipline. It took less than 24 hours to line her up with a qualified, professional scientist who was not only willing to help but actually thanked me for connecting him with this promising student. Life can be so sweet. If you let it be.

Moore Bettah Ukuleles
12-13-2016, 07:41 PM
If I had a dollar for everyone I've helped I'd be a rich man by now. This is a sharing community. People need help to get started on the right foot. They'll eventually find their own way with the craft. BTW, I'm primarily self taught, having learned before the advent of the Internet, YouTube, forums and the like. As a result it took me a long time to be able to build a quality uke. If I can help someone avoid those stupid mistakes I've made I'm happy to help. But I live in Hawaii, many things are different here.

Ukulele Eddie
12-13-2016, 07:43 PM
Remind me again, how much did you pay each luthier on your info gathering trip?

This is exactly what I was thinking.

hawaii 50
12-13-2016, 07:51 PM
If I had a dollar for everyone I've helped I'd be a rich man by now. This is a sharing community. People need help to get started on the right foot. They'll eventually find their own way with the craft. BTW, I'm primarily self taught, having learned before the advent of the Internet, YouTube, forums and the like. As a result it took me a long time to be able to build a quality uke. If I can help someone avoid those stupid mistakes I've made I'm happy to help. But I live in Hawaii, many things are different here.



that is what makes you Chuck Moore..it is not always about the build...it is about the people you buy from too....
many things different if you Live Aloha..:)

my 2 cents

Dan Gleibitz
12-13-2016, 08:13 PM
Nice going Saltytri. Those kinds of connections can turn out to be life-changing.

A couple of weeks ago I met and did a minor favour for a chap who builds and installs wardrobes and the like. At the time I asked for some advice about replacing our entry door and sidelight, and he was very helpful. Several days later, out of the blue he rang to say he'd be here on Saturday to help with the job and would not take no for an answer. He drove 3 hours (each way) with a van and tools and we spent a few pleasant hours working on it, sharing a meal and chatting before it was done and he headed home.

He said the best way to repay his kindness was to do something nice for somebody else, and maybe they'd do something nice for the next person, and so on, which would make the world a better place.

It was great. I got a new door, a new determination to help other people, and a new friend.

mm stan
12-13-2016, 10:14 PM
Nice going Saltytri. Those kinds of connections can turn out to be life-changing.

A couple of weeks ago I met and did a minor favour for a chap who builds and installs wardrobes and the like. At the time I asked for some advice about replacing our entry door and sidelight, and he was very helpful. Several days later, out of the blue he rang to say he'd be here on Saturday to help with the job and would not take no for an answer. He drove 3 hours (each way) with a van and tools and we spent a few pleasant hours working on it, sharing a meal and chatting before it was done and he headed home.

He said the best way to repay his kindness was to do something nice for somebody else, and maybe they'd do something nice for the next person, and so on, which would make the world a better place.

It was great. I got a new door, a new determination to help other people, and a new friend.
Great story Dan, paying the gesture forward, excellent concept..:)

Pete Howlett
12-13-2016, 11:56 PM
Let me help you: As usual I didn't reveal the source of the enquiry or the text but this was the gist of it - I've watched your video on slotted headstock jig and seen mention of. Can you give me the plans for it?.

I don't crow about what I do but last year I mentored two students as interns, have employed two part-time apprentices with barely enough funds to afford to do so, shared with my peers my sources and learning - that is what my Fellowship Travels were about and given away a good number of luthier sets of wood to those who asked for help rather than demanded it. This coming year I have two more students as interns lined up who while helping me will have access to my workshop, materials and methods.

At one point I had 134 videos on YouTube explaining the process of building with over 2000 subscribers. Most of the professional builders on this forum thought I was nuts giving my knowledge away so I listened to them and took them down.

I live inn a glass house but do not throw stones. The reaction here is very interesting if not somewhat revealing. If you want to see how I 'give' to the community on a daily basis, check out my DAILY live broadcasts on my Facebook group - The Pete Howlett Ukulele Club. I don't know of any other builder doing a daily show and tell for this community. If there is, please give me the url and I'll watch :)

I'll help anyone who asks. I have given away everything I know for free. You want to intern in my workshop it's there for you.

Side bar: Ask any luthier where they get their wood from and you will truly learn about sharing...

Dan Gleibitz
12-14-2016, 01:02 AM
Let me help you: As usual I didn't reveal the source of the enquiry or the text but this was the gist of it - I've watched your video on slotted headstock jig and seen mention of. Can you give me the plans for it?.

That is a bit cheeky. I thought you'd deleted that video years ago?

Pete Howlett
12-14-2016, 05:04 AM
I've subsequently republished both here and on my facebook page. They also may be refering to the video when it was up. I get quite a few "Where's that video you did on.... gone?" still.

cml
12-14-2016, 06:40 AM
I'll help anyone who asks. I have given away everything I know for free. You want to intern in my workshop it's there for you
As long as they pay 500 pounds an hour to stand in a corner, right?

While I'm continuously impressed with your terrific ukes Pete, your attitude never fails to amaze either. Count yourself lucky that your prospective buyers dont seem to read this forum.

Pete Howlett
12-14-2016, 07:24 AM
I use my judgement. I think you are referring to something I said in a previous thread which you have skilfully taken out of context to make what would seem a valid point - in isolation. And yes, many of my buyers found me here. I have a distinct view when it comes to giving advice. Those who really want it respect the ownership of it and are quite respectfully asking for help. And then there are those who somehow expect you to give freely. If you knew what I did in all aspects of my life you would have a different view I think. None of us are what we seem - my travels taught me that. I really had to revise my opinions about many things - particularly making a public apology over an off the cuff remark which offended many. I'm not that big that I cannot step down. However, I do not any longer give to those who simply want because they feel somehow entitled.

resoman
12-14-2016, 07:24 AM
OK, isn't this enough of flaming on Pete??

lfoo6952
12-14-2016, 08:00 AM
I'm with Pete on this one. Giving away plans for free is too much to ask. Sorry if you disagree.

cml
12-14-2016, 08:00 AM
I disagree. The thread that I referred to, was started by you and you said 500 an hour was what people should be happy to pay to stand in a corner, not even speaking or asking anything. You were really condescending in your replies towards many of us and everyone else was stupid for not seeing it your way. When asked what you paid for your visits during your recent trip by multiple people, you never replied. To my knowledge, you never apologized.

You're full of knowledge and likely one of the best builders out there but a little more aloha wouldn't hurt.

lauburu
12-14-2016, 08:12 AM
OK, isn't this enough of flaming on Pete??

Agreed.
A famous luthier once said that if you want to make better guitars (ukes?) you have to become a better person. I have found that to be true. If I'm impatient, in a foul mood, wrapped up in my own worries, ...... it's best I stay out of the workshop. I still have a long way to go to make better ukes and to be a better person. I have also found the good, local luthiers to be wonderful people, which (in my mind) reinforces the original statement.

No one will dispute Pete's ability to make wonderful instruments. To my mind that (almost) automatically qualifies him for being a wonderful person. Many, many examples of extreme generosity in terms of advice given freely, instructive videos and random gifts of tonewoods to other forum members (and no doubt to unforum members) have confirmed this opinion.

However, sometimes he has an opinion or a turn of phrase which doesn't always sit well with everyone. That's fine too. He's allowed to express his opinions and we're allowed to reject them in this forum. However, I do think that we should remain respectful. Doing so will make us better people and, as we know, better people make better ukes. My tuppence worth.
Miguel

Mivo
12-14-2016, 08:14 AM
I'm with Pete on this one. Giving away plans for free is too much to ask. Sorry if you disagree.

The original message didn't mention plans. What gives me pause is the mindset expressed by posting a thread like this, in the way it was done.

hawaii 50
12-14-2016, 08:18 AM
The original message didn't mention plans. What gives me pause is the mindset expressed by posting a thread like this, in the way it was done.

I agree with you..the spirit of the original post was not very nice..IMO

Pete Howlett
12-14-2016, 08:27 AM
Not sure what I have to apologise for. If it's having a differing opinion then.... well nobody is gonna do that. Condescending? I'll apologise for that. I think you will find that most people I met received a 'token' gift from me. I also, peer to peer, shared my methods and knowledge with them. I wasn't on an information grab or spying mission. I even laboured for one of those I visited - happy to suck dust and sweep the floor as he showed me how he cut a slipper heel. I also bought over $1200 worth of wood from him at full market price. I'm no free-loader, Sadly, too many are because they are lazy and want it all without giving anything in return. It would be inappropriate of me to publish the kind comments my peers made upon my visits. Peer to peer is an entirely different relationship from master to pupil. I am surprised many do not recognise this...

Anyway I think I have made my point. The spirit of Aloha - it's a bit more than sharing information about building techniques :)

Rllink
12-14-2016, 09:27 AM
OK, isn't this enough of flaming on Pete??Well, he sort of asked for it. If he didn't want to know what people thought, he shouldn't have posted it.

I'm not pointing a finger at anyone specifically, especially someone I don't even know, but for some inexplicable reason I thought that a little vocabulary lesson might be a nice interlude here in the thread. No charge by the way, even though I had to take valuble time looking it up. It is my gift to all of you.;)

From Marriam-Webster:
Definition of "curmudgeon" for English Language Learners:
a person (especially an old man) who is easily annoyed or angered and who often complains.

Timbuck
12-14-2016, 09:40 AM
From Marriam-Webster:
Definition of "curmudgeon" for English Language Learners:
a person (especially an old man) who is easily annoyed or angered and who often complains.

Bah!,,,Humbug :old:

DPO
12-14-2016, 10:08 AM
I made the Glass house remark quite deliberately as I am sure you know Pete, When you decided that you where going to make banjo ukes you emailed me asking for information. I was astonished that such a well known and well respected luthier would ask me for advice. I gave it freely. I gave you dimensions, all and any measurements I had, I gave you a list of hardware supplies you would need and a list of suppliers, a list that took me many months to accumulate. I asked for no money. Not sure if you thanked me or not but who cares.
Your original post here got exactly what it deserved. Having had many "serves" you now come out with version two of the post in an attempt at mitigation. Well it has not worked for me. Your posts here frequently come across as churlish and /or arrogant, perhaps a little humility is required as a balance.

mzuch
12-14-2016, 10:36 AM
Definition of "curmudgeon" for English Language Learners:
a person (especially an old man) who is easily annoyed or angered and who often complains.

I think my photo appears next to that definition.

fungusgeek
12-14-2016, 03:40 PM
I got to know (a little) a pearl inlay artist who does fabulous work, and indeed, makes his living doing inlay work. He will show/tell you how he does anything and everything. He has a motto; "I don't want to die with any secrets".

I think this is a great philosophy, and have tried to live by it. I will tell you how I do anything, and 'share out' ideas and materials that I invent or come across, just because it is good to encourage the making of things, and instruments in particular. Of course, I have the luxury of not having to make my living at lutherie, which frees up the time constraints.

Jim Hanks
12-14-2016, 04:13 PM
Interesting discussion. I can see both sides. Being a mentor or helpful colleague is one thing, but nobody wants to feel like a "mark".

Rllink
12-15-2016, 05:17 AM
Interesting discussion. I can see both sides. Being a mentor or helpful colleague is one thing, but nobody wants to feel like a "mark".
No one likes to be used or taken advantage of, but I think posting it on a public forum is just asking for it. Frankly, I have a few things that I don't want to share, but I just don't share them. I don't get all freaked out by it if someone asks me about something I don't want to share.

UkieOkie
12-15-2016, 05:44 AM
Hey do any of you guys have plans for a slotted headstock jig?




Just kidding. Merry Chrismas friends!

Moore Bettah Ukuleles
12-15-2016, 06:16 AM
Hey do any of you guys have plans for a slotted headstock jig?




Just kidding. Merry Chrismas friends!

That's not an unusual request. Simply make a plexiglass or lucite pattern of the slotted headstock you want and index it to the raw neck somehow (I used double back tape) and rout it out with a pattern bit.
This is exactly the kind of information we're here to share.

BTW, it's considered bad form to use another builders exact headstock design as it is often considered their "signature".

Mele Kalikimaka.

UkieOkie
12-15-2016, 06:58 AM
That's not an unusual request. Simply make a plexiglass or lucite pattern of the slotted headstock you want and index it to the raw neck somehow (I used double back tape) and rout it out with a pattern bit.
This is exactly the kind of information we're here to share.

BTW, it's considered bad form to use another builders exact headstock design as it is often considered their "signature".

Mele Kalikimaka.

Thanks Chuck. I really do appreciate you and many other free sharing of information. It's each persons decision as to whether or not to "open source" his or her mind, but frankly it's that very sharing spirit that makes the Internet such an amazing advancement for human civilization.

DPO
12-15-2016, 09:08 AM
That's not an unusual request. Simply make a plexiglass or lucite pattern of the slotted headstock you want and index it to the raw neck somehow (I used double back tape) and rout it out with a pattern bit.
This is exactly the kind of information we're here to share.

BTW, it's considered bad form to use another builders exact headstock design as it is often considered their "signature".

Mele Kalikimaka.

Well said Chuck.

Moore Bettah Ukuleles
12-15-2016, 01:06 PM
Thanks Chuck. I really do appreciate you and many other free sharing of information. It's each persons decision as to whether or not to "open source" his or her mind, but frankly it's that very sharing spirit that makes the Internet such an amazing advancement for human civilization.

I,too, respect those who'd like to keep their tricks and secrets to themselves. But this particular part of the forum is for sharing information, not for boasting, bragging or pumping up our egos. There are plenty of other places to do that. It's really not necessary to say "I don't want to share something" on a forum that is about sharing. The OP has shared tons of information in the past and I'm sure it's been appreciate. If he wants to put a limit on that I understand. Many professional builders are way too busy to spend a lot of time on this forum to answer a lot of questions from novice builders but most of us answer willingly when we have time. And I think time is at the heart of this matter. Time on the computer means time away from the bench. I used to participate a lot more on this forum when I thought I had something important to contribute. Because of the popularity of UU there now seems to be enough experienced people who can help others that have more time than I do. Again, this is a sharing community that we are blessed to have on UU. Share if want to. If you don't want to it really not necessary to say anything.

Dan Gleibitz
12-15-2016, 03:43 PM
Hey do any of you guys have plans for a slotted headstock jig?

Just kidding. Merry Chrismas friends!
Kidding or not, you're welcome to use/copy/modify/sell/ignore the attached jig plan that I've been working on for a bit now. It's a self-clamping unit, with indexing screws and self-centering drill guides for the tuner posts.

96351
96352

Probably not as elegant as Pete Howlett's solution (if you want that you'll need to "do a proper search for it" per his post #1), and I can't guarantee it works at all because I haven't tried it.

Instructions:
* If you don't have a laser cutter handy, find a friend who does and get them to cut the purple-ish lines, engrave the cyan.
* Glue the 5mm parts between the 3mm parts.
* Buy 4 x ~40mm M5 bolts (inset hex-head type, whatever they're called), 4 x M5 wing nuts, 12 x M5 hex nuts, 8x ~25mm M5 bolts.
* Assemble at will!

Moore Bettah Ukuleles
12-15-2016, 03:58 PM
I feel one of the most important things in designing a slotted headstock is to make the ramps such that the strings don't touch. If they do, it's a deal killer for me. just something to keep in mind.

DPO
12-15-2016, 04:42 PM
How wonderful that in a short space of time this thread has gone from somewhat negative to 100% positive. This is what keeps me coming back day after day. Kudos to all. :)

Moore Bettah Ukuleles
12-15-2016, 04:53 PM
How wonderful that in a short space of time this thread has gone from somewhat negative to 100% positive. This is what keeps me coming back day after day. Kudos to all. :)

I tried my best. We have opportunities every day to change negative situations into positive ones if we choose. I'm not really sure this thread intended to be negative. Just different perceptions of different people's reality. As I mentioned before, Pete's given a lot to the ukulele community in the past. 'Nuf said. ;)

UkieOkie
12-15-2016, 06:54 PM
Kidding or not, you're welcome to use/copy/modify/sell/ignore the attached jig plan that I've been working on for a bit now. It's a self-clamping unit, with indexing screws and self-centering drill guides for the tuner posts.

96351
96352

Probably not as elegant as Pete Howlett's solution (if you want that you'll need to "do a proper search for it" per his post #1), and I can't guarantee it works at all because I haven't tried it.

Instructions:
* If you don't have a laser cutter handy, find a friend who does and get them to cut the purple-ish lines, engrave the cyan.
* Glue the 5mm parts between the 3mm parts.
* Buy 4 x ~40mm M5 bolts (inset hex-head type, whatever they're called), 4 x M5 wing nuts, 12 x M5 hex nuts, 8x ~25mm M5 bolts.
* Assemble at will!

Wow Dan, thanks a lot. I am going to save these plans for later. I just finished my fourth Uke(definitely my best). So, I am still very much a beginner, but someday I would love to do a slotted headstock. I am very grateful to you folks.


Trevor

Dan Gleibitz
12-15-2016, 07:41 PM
Yeah, I love slotted headstocks but haven't tried one yet either. Don't save the plans - I've already found mistakes. When I get a physical prototype made I'll fix the plans and post them with instructions in the Jigs thread somebody started a few weeks ago. If it works, that is!

Timbuck
12-16-2016, 12:53 AM
With only 4 strings why bother with two slots when one will do the job e.g. Double bass.

Has this thread drifted a bit ?...:D

Michael N.
12-16-2016, 02:28 AM
How many ukuleles can you fit inside a double bass? Maybe someone can make a joke out of that, on the other hand some smart guy might actually be able to work it out.
Don't think I'll bother!

Pukulele Pete
12-16-2016, 02:57 AM
How many ukuleles can you fit inside a double bass?

Sorry , but we are not at liberty to divulge that information.

tangimango
12-16-2016, 01:00 PM
ALoha Chuck, curios on whats the pros and cons of the strings not touching the ramp?
mahalos

I feel one of the most important things in designing a slotted headstock is to make the ramps such that the strings don't touch. If they do, it's a deal killer for me. just something to keep in mind.

Kevin Waldron
12-16-2016, 03:53 PM
Michael,

Double bass volume is really not that difficult with a 3D CAD File (this is a 3/4) one would also need a Uke 3D file.... should be simple enough to figure how many will fit.......... HA! HA! Couldn't resist.... we actually made these for awhile

kw
96370963719637296373

Moore Bettah Ukuleles
12-16-2016, 04:49 PM
ALoha Chuck, curios on whats the pros and cons of the strings not touching the ramp?
mahalos

Well...... aside from wearing off the finish, they just shouldn't! At least in my opinion they shouldn't.

Michael N.
12-17-2016, 06:34 AM
Sorry , but we are not at liberty to divulge that information.

The answer is 42.

mainger
12-17-2016, 02:25 PM
The answer is 42.

It's always 42 ;)

maryagn3s
12-21-2016, 02:35 PM
I joined this late but read the whole thing through. Chuck Moore, I have even more respect for you than I did originally (and that was a LOT)!

As someone who lives with a luthier (and who has been a teacher and mentor for more than 2 decades) I have properly enjoyed all of the views on this thread.

Just a random appreciative post from me.
:)
-maryagnes