help with friction tuning

valde002 · Jan 12, 2017

Hi, I just received my Kamaka and of course, it is out of tune.

I am used to the other kind, the geared kind, so this is all new.

The C is out of tune, but the friction peg is tight when I try to turn it. I cannot move it in either direction. Should I use a screwdriver to loosen it, then turn the peg until the string is in tune, then re-tighten?

I want to be sure to do this right before I do anything at all!

Thanks!

Chopped Liver · Jan 12, 2017

Loosen the screw. You don't need to tighten it back.

jer · Jan 12, 2017

Ideally, you'll have the tuners as tight as you can possibly stand them and still turn them, or at least until it holds tune very securely...don't strip the screws. If you can't physically turn it now, you'll definitely have to loosen that screw a bit. Loosen it as tiny an amount as you possibly can and try again.
You should not have to use a screwdriver every time you tune the instrument...

You may also consider having a competent tech or even a luthier install some geared tuning machines. I always replace friction pegs with geared tuners, because I despise the friction pegs. I know some actually like them, but I don't see the appeal.

Booli · Jan 12, 2017

jer said:
Ideally, you'll have the tuners as tight as you can possibly stand them and still turn them, or at least until it holds tune very securely...don't strip the screws. If you can't physically turn it now, you'll definitely have to loosen that screw a bit. Loosen it as tiny an amount as you possibly can and try again.
You should not have to use a screwdriver every time you tune the instrument...

You may also consider having a competent tech or even a luthier install some geared tuning machines. I always replace friction pegs with geared tuners, because I despise the friction pegs. I know some actually like them, but I don't see the appeal.

when I am tortured to use friction tuners, I find that not more than 1/4 rotation of the screw, in small increments is necessary, otherwise you overshoot, and either string tension will unwind string from the post on the tuner OR the tuner wont budge without a HULK grip and then skips too far, and then you have the frustration of herky-jerky hysteresis that eats all your interest in actually tuning or playing and then...

you just has a sad

Camsuke · Jan 12, 2017

valde002 said:
Hi, I just received my Kamaka and of course, it is out of tune.

I am used to the other kind, the geared kind, so this is all new.

The C is out of tune, but the friction peg is tight when I try to turn it. I cannot move it in either direction. Should I use a screwdriver to loosen it, then turn the peg until the string is in tune, then re-tighten?

I want to be sure to do this right before I do anything at all!

Thanks!

The instrument should have never been shipped if the tuning peg is not working properly. It may be best to contact the supplier... just in case.

valde002 · Jan 12, 2017

Thanks for all your replies, very awesome!

I unscrewed it slightly by about 1/4 and it loosened up enough for me to tune it. My next thought is: How much tension to keep the screws at? keep them tight? When I turn the knob it is rather tight, but I feel I can get enough turn to tune it. I don't want to keep TOO much tightness in the screws, or do I?

I have some congas, and with those you need to de-tune when not playing, to protect the drum and the heads from the humidity/temp changes. I don't believe I do this with the ukulele, right?

jimavery · Jan 12, 2017

My top tip for friction tuning is; when you fit new strings, leave a reasonable length (say an inch or so) tail of string at the tuner (don't crop them right back). You can then use this tail as a highly accurate visual indication of how much you are turning the peg.

jer · Jan 12, 2017

Booli, yeah "tortured" is about how I feel with them too. haha.

valde002 said:
Thanks for all your replies, very awesome!

I unscrewed it slightly by about 1/4 and it loosened up enough for me to tune it. My next thought is: How much tension to keep the screws at? keep them tight? When I turn the knob it is rather tight, but I feel I can get enough turn to tune it. I don't want to keep TOO much tightness in the screws, or do I?

I have some congas, and with those you need to de-tune when not playing, to protect the drum and the heads from the humidity/temp changes. I don't believe I do this with the ukulele, right?

I usually kept them as tight as it took for them not to slip and loose enough that I could turn them without spraining a wrist or something. It was a difficult balance to find for me.

Right. You don't need to de-tune the uke. You will have to re-tune it often though. Once the strings settle in it won't be as much, but still some tuning is required then if you want to be spot on.

Here's another little tip for dealing with strings that haven't settled in yet, as in newer strings: If you turn the peg too far and make the string too sharp by a little bit, instead of turning the peg again to loosen you can try putting your fingers underneath the string and gently lifting up all along the fretboard to stretch the string a bit. That will flatten the pitch some. Personally, I don't recommend doing that with strings that are already mostly settled in though because then you can stretch them too much which leads to premature wear. That's just my personal experience and opinion. You may get some others too.

Looks like you got a very nice uke. I hope you enjoy it greatly!

vinceherman · Jan 13, 2017

Booli said:
when I am tortured to use friction tuners, <snippage> you just has a sad

Like Booli, I was tortured. But for me it was x8 because I play a taropatch!

Can you say Gotoh UPT's? Geared tuners that look like friction tuners.

strumsilly · Jan 13, 2017

Camsuke said:
The instrument should have never been shipped if the tuning peg is not working properly. It may be best to contact the supplier... just in case.

It is possible the pegs were adjusted properly and because of humidity changes it got tighter.

valde002 · Jan 19, 2017

Thanks all. I unscrewed it minimally, about 1/4 of a turn and was able to adjust it. It is tight, but works. that's how it should be?

WCBarnes · Jan 19, 2017

Don't let these guys scare you off of friction pegs. While I admit that cheap friction pegs are a nightmare, good ones are excellent! I will opt for a good friction peg over a geared tuner (with exception of UPTs) any day. I mainly play soprano and concert and the ones I have with geared tuners feel more top heavy and not as balanced. Not to mention they look funny with their "ears" sticking out.

Now to your question. You want them tight enough that they do not slip, but loose enough you can adjust them, so it sounds like you have it right. And if they ever get too tight/loose a simple adjustment with a screw driver and you are back in business! Easy as pie!

valde002 · Jan 19, 2017

thanks for the advice- good for peace of mind. There is an article by Got-a-uke that shares the same sentiment; that higher brand friction tuners are better than the lower end. This is my first time using them and it seems to be a guessing game when tuning, but I don't mind it. Thanks for the weigh-in on the balance, as that is important for me because I am still learning how to balance/hold the ukes.

WCBarnes · Jan 20, 2017

One more tip with friction pegs. If you pick up your uke and it is just a little out of tune. Instead of trying to make a small adjustment to bring it to tune, make it WAY out of tune (1/2 step or so) and then bring it back into tune. Even the best friction pegs can stick a little if they haven't been moved in a while. Doing this will get the peg moving and save you a lot of fiddling time. And always tune from flat up to pitch rather than sharp down.

Rllink · Jan 20, 2017

WCBarnes said:
One more tip with friction pegs. If you pick up your uke and it is just a little out of tune. Instead of trying to make a small adjustment to bring it to tune, make it WAY out of tune (1/2 step or so) and then bring it back into tune. Even the best friction pegs can stick a little if they haven't been moved in a while. Doing this will get the peg moving and save you a lot of fiddling time. And always tune from flat up to pitch rather than sharp down.

This is very good advise. I had never used friction tuners until I put them on my cigar box ukulele that I made. I have been getting along fine with them, and I have to admit that before this I was kind of down on them. But I like them now. Not a lot of twisting and twisting, just bring it up to tune, and that's it. Mine are not anything special, and after reading this I've taken to turning them down a little to get them moving and then bringing them up to tune the string, just like suggested. It is working great. Thanks.

jer · Jan 23, 2017

To be clear, I do agree that not all friction pegs are created equally. I've used some of the nicer ones, and they are a lot better for sure. That said, they're still not as efficient as gears...but to each his/her own.

hawaii 50 · Jan 23, 2017

what year is your Kamaka..Kamaka builds them now with Gotoh UPT tuners(geared plantary tuners))......I would have them changed out way better than the old friction tuners that they used to us.....

valde002 · Jan 23, 2017

hawaii 50 said:
what year is your Kamaka..Kamaka builds them now with Gotoh UPT tuners(geared plantary tuners))......I would have them changed out way better than the old friction tuners that they used to us.....

Hawaii50, the Kamaka I received was from 2013. I have another one on order, but I believe it too has the friction tuners. I also ordered a 2016 Koaloha with friction tuners, but did not change the tuners- am feeling too protective and tentative about the bigger holes that would be drilled into my precious baby! :stop:

valde002 · Jan 23, 2017

WCBarnes said:
One more tip with friction pegs. If you pick up your uke and it is just a little out of tune. Instead of trying to make a small adjustment to bring it to tune, make it WAY out of tune (1/2 step or so) and then bring it back into tune. Even the best friction pegs can stick a little if they haven't been moved in a while. Doing this will get the peg moving and save you a lot of fiddling time. And always tune from flat up to pitch rather than sharp down.

why tune up and not down? Just curious...

WCBarnes · Jan 23, 2017

valde002 said:
why tune up and not down? Just curious...

This is how it was explained to me (which made sense): When you lower the pitch you are releasing tension. This could cause slack in the string, at the nut, in the tuning machines, which might make the string go below the intended pitch. When you approach the target note from below, there will be force applied to the string, nut, tuning machines and when you've reached the correct pitch everything will have less potential to move.

help with friction tuning

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