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View Full Version : Let's play E7 instead of E!



zztush
03-08-2017, 05:02 PM
We know that we can use G7 instead of G often, but sometimes can not. We sometimes can not clearly see the difference between G7 and G. But sometimes can. We just check this first.

Let it Be is one of my favorite song and I sing it with my soprano often.

https://s19.postimg.org/cl9cgtwxv/tmp.png (https://postimg.org/image/m5sz3pm9r/)windows 7 screenshot (https://postimage.org/app.php)

Just play G7 instead of G on your ukulele. I think we can play it. Then play C7 instead of C next. I think it is bit different. It sounds bit jazzy. Actually 7th chords are basic of jazz. They use 7th cords (C7) instead of triads (C). What makes the difference?

https://s19.postimg.org/vswhdff9f/index.png (https://postimg.org/image/6zmxcrw8v/)image hosting no register (https://postimage.org/)

If it were dominant, we can use both G and G7. If it were tonic, it is bit jazzy (I don't say it impossible to use here). Same thing happens to E and E7 too. Hence we just need to check when E tonic or dominant is (See the figure below). i is tonic and V is dominant in the figure below. In this discussion, we don't use subdominant because E becomes subdominant only key of B, and we don't care about key of B here.

https://s19.postimg.org/lmx2lx9mr/137.png (https://postimg.org/image/o48tt6tj3/)how to use print screen (https://postimage.org/app.php)

When key of A or Am (green in the figure above), we can play E7 instead of E. It can be jazzy only when the key is E (yellow).

https://s19.postimg.org/y1ofzzqir/combine_images.png (https://postimg.org/image/7glx4fo5b/)uploadimage (https://postimage.org/)

Don't be afraid of key of E. E is guitar key. He has two E strings (See the figure above), he is good at key of E. But the key signature is weird, apparently it is not our key.

Let's play E7 instead of E!

dhbailey
03-08-2017, 10:23 PM
Chord substitutions have long been standard practice in the jazz and pop music worlds. Turning a major triad into a dominant seventh chord is a simple and easy to do chord substitution and as ZZTush says it can make the music sound more jazzy. The only caution I would add to his advice is to use it sparingly and be sure that it really enhances the music. Experiment with it -- turn any major chord into a dominant seventh chord and see how it fits. If you like it, great. If you think it doesn't particularly help, then go back to the major triad.

Rllink
03-09-2017, 07:36 AM
I think that getting into the habit of looking for ways to avoid playing chords is a bad habit to get into.

Charley
03-09-2017, 07:48 AM
Dominant 7ths (G7, E7, etc) are usually intended to lead into something else - C7 to F or Fm, E7 to A or Am, etc. So those are the times you can substitute the 7th for a normal major chord.

An E chord has a more final, complete sound than an E7. Conversely, an E7 sounds less final. If a less final sound is what you want, then use the E7; if you're at a final point in the song or phrase, then use E.

Barrytone
03-09-2017, 09:23 AM
just practice and learn to play correctly or take up drums. It takes time, effort and patience to learn to play a stringed instrument, unless you are gifted. It seems that so many folks expect everything to be instantaneous.

mikelz777
03-09-2017, 09:26 AM
Maybe it's my ear but I don't think either the G7 or C7 work in the above example.

zztush
03-09-2017, 11:13 AM
Hi, Rllink!
I skip some chords in order to make it simple and easy to remember. Skip is even worse than substitute.

Hi, Cherley!
Yes, the difference makes the difference between tonic and dominant in this thread.

Choirguy
03-09-2017, 01:29 PM
Which E shape? The "open" 1402 would not seem to be a moveable chord shape to me.

Choirguy
03-09-2017, 01:32 PM
In many cases E7 will work because the arranger/person who did the harmonic analysis was lazy and didn't bother to look for the D in the chord. I find this ALL THE TIME in ukulele music and try to avoid doing so in my own arrangements.

If your E is going to A or F# minor, you're probably okay.

If E is the key of the song...use an E.

I just showed my students the 3 most basic ways to play E...just keep practicing and it will get better.

JJFN
03-09-2017, 02:44 PM
just practice and learn to play correctly or take up drums. It takes time, effort and patience to learn to play a stringed instrument, unless you are gifted. It seems that so many folks expect everything to be instantaneous.

Agree 100%. If it was easy everyone would be an advanced player. It's a skill, you can't pick up a golf club and expect to be a pro. It takes, practice. There is no substitute.

Choirguy
03-09-2017, 05:08 PM
4442, of course. I've never bothered with 1402; I find it more awkward than 4442 in most chord sequences and sounds the same (in reentrant tuning). Whereas if you learn 4442, you also get Eb (3331), another F (5553), another F# (6664) etc. I prefer to focus on movable forms and those that fit into generic patterns than on shapes that only work in first position and in special-cased patterns. Alternatives like 1402 are more useful in linear tunings, since at least they give a different voicing there.

I often jump to 4447, which I find easier to play than 4442. There has to be a trick to 4442 that I'm not getting.

zztush
03-10-2017, 12:32 AM
Hi, Choirguy!


I often jump to 4447, which I find easier to play than 4442. There has to be a trick to 4442 that I'm not getting.

I think I've got a trick, because my friend has no problem with E. He can play it without practice. I taught hit D like this (See the figure below) first. He struggled D a bit but after he's got D, he has no problem with E. Try this D first.

https://s19.postimg.org/k1d93wmir/combine_images.png (https://postimg.org/image/434jdrsan/)print screen windows xp (https://postimage.org/app.php)

If you can, middle finger should be placed vertical like this photo below.

https://s19.postimg.org/l67b9a8zn/100_2630.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/udzjpzg1r/)imgupload (https://postimage.org/)

Bones43x
03-16-2017, 04:53 PM
Don't be afraid of key of E. E is guitar key. He has two E strings (See the figure above), he is good at key of E. But the key signature is weird, apparently it is not our key.

Let's play E7 instead of E!

I hate the key of E(major) on guitar. The basic chords are fine, but most of the songs I have to play in E have the E/G# which is my most-hated chord on guitar.

I don't have my uke yet, but it seems the most common E chord shape is the 4-4-4-2, with the redundant Bs. Why not 4-4-4-7 with the high E, instead? Or just leave the 1st string out, completely. You have the necessary 1-3-5 barred on the 4th fret to complete the E major chord.

Edit: Ha...I missed Bill1's post.

One Man And His Uke
03-23-2017, 04:45 AM
I kind of just play what sounds good to me and hopefully whoever is listening in. I'll use plenty of 7th and also diminished chords in my playing if they sound right. I don't really understand the theory of it, it's just the way I've come to play over the years. Found out this week that the C chord variant I often play, again because I like the sound of it, is actually a C5. Been playing it for years and never knew. Theory is very useful to some, less so to others I guess ;)

Choirguy
03-23-2017, 07:47 AM
I don't understand why people insist on taking a longer, harder road that gets them no farther.

This actually ties back to another thread where a number of people felt that reading music was also of no use.

I think the best way to think about it is that those of us that read music and understand theory are in the minority, and the mass majority of people have no desire to think about music that way.

My day job is teaching middle school choir, and it is pretty clear that most of my students have no interest in becoming musically literate--I have even heard, "What does this matter in the real world?" There are a hundred answers to that question, but the fact is that you CAN survive [quite comfortably] as a person and even as a musician without understanding how to read music or the theory behind it.

And is surprising at all, in this world of microwave meals, fast food, and quick fixes that people aren't interested in the "longer, harder road of which you speak?" (Which may not actually be longer and harder at all?)

bikemech
03-23-2017, 07:56 AM
E7 won't work in every situation. It works of for me in Randy Newman's You've Got A Friend In Me, but not in another song (I can't remember which) I recently tried. I read in another thread of a very simple way to play an E-major and I like the way it sounds but I haven't tried to incorporate it in my playing yet. It's 1-x-0-2. It's not as full sounding as a 4-string chord but that's OK. I have primarily practiced 4-4-4-2. It makes for some difficult and slow switches but I think I'll get it eventually. In the meantime, I'll try 1-x-0-2 and the new-to-me 1-4-0-2.

JackLuis
03-23-2017, 09:28 PM
4447 = notes B E G# e nice for arpeggiating an E chord with a octave e and low E note
4442 = notes B E G# B nice when you want to have two (fifth) B notes
444x = notes B E G# nice straight forward E chord
<snip>
However, we should always remember that most ukulele players are playing for recreation, not to perform concerts and sell tickets. You are allowed to stop at what ever level suits you for your recreation. And you are allowed to avoid the E chord if that is how you choose to spend your recreation time. While you make that choice, it is important to make sure that you do not lead the beginners to think that the level you choose is all there is. When you are talking to beginners, I think that you should point them at all the possibilities and give them the chance to make their own choices after trying a few things out in their own recreational time

Thanks for the explicit post. I got out my concert and fingered these chords, which is well beyond the first position I had been limited to. Just coming on the two year anniversary of my first Uke and I've been stalled a bit in the first position. That is probably due to my not learning the fretboard map. Too old and lazy for that.

Uke has taught me a lot despite my lackadazical attitude. I've concentrated on finger dexterity as my main problem but now feel the lack of music basics is my biggest impediment to progress. However outdoor playing is now possible and the cats never criticize my playing.

redpaul1
04-03-2017, 03:20 AM
C D E F G A B C Major template
C C# D Eb E F F# G Ab A Bb B C Chromatic template
A Bb B C C# D Eb E F F# G Ab A A chromatic scale gives A B C# D E F# G# A as A major scale
(sorry they don't line up well on this editor, but you can get the idea)



['code']['/code'] tags (# icon on the 'Go Advanced' menu bar) are your friend, Bill :-)


C D E F G A B C Major template
C C# D Eb E F F# G Ab A Bb B C Chromatic template

A Bb B C C# D Eb E F F# G Ab A A chromatic scale gives
A B C# D E F# G# A as A major scale

redpaul1
04-03-2017, 03:21 AM
To my shame, I've only recently discovered 1402 for E. Not that I've ever had a problem playing E as 4442 (or maybe because I've never had a problem playing E as 4442). But, having discovered it, I like 1402 E in a teaching situation, because what 1402 is useful for is showing the relation between 1202 E7 and E.

If you've ever noticed, (nearly) every time you switch between a triad and a 7th chord, you move one finger 2 frets down one string (C 0003 -> C7 0001; A 2100 -> A7 0100; G 0232 -> G7 0212).

1402 is the E-chord shape that 1202 is the 7th of. So if I want to play E as 1402, I go to the E7 shape first, and then use my pinky to get to the 4th fret C string.

redpaul1
04-03-2017, 08:38 PM
To my shame, I've only recently discovered 1402 for E. Not that I've ever had a problem playing E as 4442 (or maybe because I've never had a problem playing E as 4442). But, having discovered it, I like 1402 E in a teaching situation, because what 1402 is useful for is showing the relation between 1202 E7 and E.

If you've ever noticed, (nearly) every time you switch between a triad and a 7th chord, you move one finger 2 frets down one string (C 0003 -> C7 0001; A 2100 -> A7 0100; G 0232 -> G7 0212).

1402 is the E-chord shape that 1202 is the 7th of. ...

... and of course 0402 is the E-minor chord shape that 1402 is the major of, and 0202 is the E-minor 7th chord shape that 1202 is the E (dominant) 7th of.

And for completeness - and if you want to get jazzy :) - 1302 is the E maj7th, 0302 is the minor-major 7th (Em/M7), 0201 the half-diminished 7th (aka Em7b5), and 0101 the fully diminished 7th (Edim7, or simply Edim), chord-shape corresponding to 1402 E.

You'll notice in all of these examples that the only constant is the --0-, the root note played on the open E string.

ukatee
04-07-2017, 12:10 AM
.... and take away the number you first thought of!

Seriously, that's interesting and very helpful, redpaul - I hadn't spotted these patterns before. Thanks.

Tootler
04-08-2017, 10:09 AM
I find the standard form of E a real struggle. Small hands and fingers getting stiffer with age is the problem. I can just about manage it but it's a problem so I admit I prefer to seek alternatives where necessary. I agree that using E7 as an alternative is not always right. In fact you can always substitute E for E7 but you cannot always substitute E7 for E. If I need E in standard tuning I tend to go for 4447 or 444x. Eb is easier as you can leave the G string open so 0331 is a correct alternative to 3331 and it's a lot easier to finger.

If need be, I'll use a capo or an alternative tuning. Playing in E on a baritone superficially seems OK but the B chord in DGBE is the 'same' as the E chord in GCEA so it's not always a good alternative. If you are playing a song in E, capo 2 and play D shapes (regardless of tuning) gives you the key of E and that's what quite a few guitarists I know do.

Nickie
04-15-2017, 02:15 PM
My music theory instructor who now plays uke, insisted that I learn the standard E chord, and not cheat. So I am trying to. I don't much care for the sound of E. 1st I learned the Eb chord, which makes it easier to learn the E.

LarryS
04-17-2017, 06:52 AM
I just prefer to practice the E chord each time I play. Stretch your fingers before playing.

katysax
04-21-2017, 04:50 AM
An alternative is to use three finger chords. They are incredibly useful and totally movable. Eventually using the fourth string just happens. However even when you can play all four strings the 3 string chords are very useful.

rubykey
04-21-2017, 09:02 AM
I had never thought about 1402. So I just tried it and my fingers cannot maneuver that. Maybe with practice but I'm already proficient in the barred 4447 and the 4442. But I will admit I don't like that chord shape. And playing in the key of D is never fun on ukulele. It just isn't.

Aha! I just discovered an easy cheater way to make the E chord based on my newfound knowledge of 1402. You can play one with the index finger mute the next string with that same index finger leave the E string open and place the ring finger on the second fret of the A string. It will take some practice but I like this cheater method. We can call it 1X02. And you will be playing EG#B the complete Triad.

ripock
04-21-2017, 01:08 PM
being a relative novice I can tell you what I do and how I got to where I'm at. I fret the 1402 by using the index finger for the "1" and middle finger for the "2". On the C string I put the middle finger on the third fret and the pinky on the fourth fret. I realize the middle finger is useless in this formation but when I put it down on the third, the pinky follows to its place more easily.

At first I couldn't do this shape like many others, but I just used the rote method. It sounds laborious, but when you time it, it only takes about five minutes. So what I did was just form the chord 100 times a day. Again, that sounds horrible, but it really goes fast. I just make the chord, strum it, shake the hand out, and do it again. After a few days everything is fixed.