Zero Frets - cure all for inonation, or just dumb?

DangerLaef

DangerLaef

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I might be a bit ham-fingered, but I often have intonation problems with open chords, especially on my vorson electric.

I've tried a zero fret on a cigar box guitar & liked the result.

Do any of you have an opinion about installing one on a uke?

These seem quite affordable:

https://goldtonemusicgroup.com/zeroglide/products/zs-19
 
Any luthier will tell you that a zero fret doesn't do anything that a properly built and adjusted nut can't do. And while zero frets have gotten a bad rap with guitars as being seen mostly on cheaper instruments, there are quite a number of very good models that come with zero frets. (For some reason most good gypsy jazz guitars have zero frets. Go figure.) Part of the issue is adjustment, as there is no easy way to adjust the string height at the nut with zero frets, short of replacing the fret. While adjusting string height at the nut is something most players can easily learn.

That said, if you can get the nut on your ukulele free with the appropriate hammer tap, then you're not really risking anything by trying one of these zero fret retrofits. Just be aware that the process is not all that straight forward, as the link you included is just for the slotted nut. You also have to purchase and install the zero fret itself, and somehow figure out the correct height of zero fret to use to get the action down without adding any buzzing. But if you do go this route, please let us know how it works, and include pictures!
 
Thanks for the reply.

Certainly some food for thought.

As the process is reversible, I might go for it.

besley said:
..as the link you included is just for the slotted nut. You also have to purchase and install the zero fret itself.
Click to expand...

Elswhere on the site they say this: "Zero Glide provides four frets of graduated heights to assure you perfect action at the first fret."

Hopefully that might address some issues.
 
One advantage I can anticipate using a zero fret is not having to worry about string slot width in the nut. As the nut becomes solely a device for lateral string location, the slots can all be as wide as necessary to allow for any string configuration ... left hand, right hand, hi-G, lo-G ... net result possibly reduced chance of strings jamming in the slots, so no more sticky tuning or strings snapping at or above the nut :)

As a cure for intonation issues ... only on a badly set up instrument. The original nut should not be holding the strings any higher above the fret-board than a zero fret does.

YMMV :music:
 
I've purchased several of the Zeroglide products but have not installed them yet so I can't comment on functionality.
I bought them because I'm a tinkerer by nature and just felt like trying something different. I've set up 4 or 5 ukes and did not find it particularly difficult but I see the Zeroglide solution as possibly being easier. Instead of filing 4 different slots I'd be installing one fret and would be virtually guaranteed that all 4 strings are at the exact same height (from the underside of the string to the top of the first fret). This would stay consistent regardless of the string gauge and also when switching from high G to low G.

Whether it's a necessity or not is not something I'm qualified to debate, just shedding some light on my motives for trying it. As the install is completely reversible I feel that there's no real risk.
 
Hello,
No, you're not dumb. Just to share my experience : I recently purchased a cheap, second-hand, Mahilele — very bright and well built, but with a major intonation issue, despite the stock compensated bridge. My luthier just tailored a new bridge which cost was half the price of the uke, but to no avail in terms of intonation, which was only slightly better.
Out of curiosity, I searched the web and found a tip which involved a simple piece of toothpick put beside the nut as a poor man's zero fret. The result was WAY Better, but the action was really too high. So I had the empiric idea to try a thinner piece of something and ended in cutting a piece of paperclip (not the regular ones, but a big one) that keeps in place perfectly with the only pressure of the strings. Well the intonation is not spot-on, but I swear it's perfectly OK for a cheap soprano. You can just try this simple tip and see if it solves the problem. If yes, you might want to put install a serious zero fret, but the modest piece of paperclip may do the job just as well.
Hope this helps, keep us posted.

Gilles
 
Claus Mohri is building a concert ukulele for me right now - like all his ukuleles, it will include a zero fret. When I visited him a few months back to pick out the wood, he told me that he has absolutely no idea why someone wouldn't install a zero fret.

He knows his stuff, I suppose. There's a sound demo of one of his instruments at the very bottom: https://www.radl.com/index.php/ukulele/claus-mohri-ukulele (mine is gonna be quite similar to this one).
 
I wouldn't attempt to retrofit a Zero fret. That seems rather pointless to me and not likely to fix anything for you.

For my money the whole point/rationale of a zero fret is that you accurately place it when fretting the fingerboard and it stays accurately placed in relation to the rest of the frets no matter what. In our fast paced modern world where time is money people don't always take the time to accurately place the nut in relation to the frets. In an ideal world its possible/desirable to compensate the position of the nut for each string although to be honest only a tiny number of builders go to that much trouble anyway.

So, a zero fret is an efficient and effective way of achieving an accurately placed nut. Its better than most but not as good as an expert making an effort.

Anthony
 
Although a zero fret is a cheap way to ensure better intonation, unfortunately because if that it's use has been associatd with cheap instruments, although that is not always the case. There is another aspect to a zero fret and that is the difference between the sound of a fretted note versus an open note. It is the difference in ring or duration between a fretted note and an identical unfretted note. For a ukulele, the difference may not be that pronounced, so it could be a moot point. Those with low G can probably give an opinion of any difference between an open C and a fretted C on the 5th fret.

I know that there is a difference with steel string guitars and even more with a steel string bass.

John
 
Intonation and action are influenced by a number of different factors. That said... my Fluke, Flea and Firefly all have a zero fret and all have extraordinarily good action and intonation.


Scooter
 
gilles T said:
Hello,
No, you're not dumb. Just to share my experience : I recently purchased a cheap, second-hand, Mahilele — very bright and well built, but with a major intonation issue, despite the stock compensated bridge. My luthier just tailored a new bridge which cost was half the price of the uke, but to no avail in terms of intonation, which was only slightly better.
Out of curiosity, I searched the web and found a tip which involved a simple piece of toothpick put beside the nut as a poor man's zero fret. The result was WAY Better, but the action was really too high. So I had the empiric idea to try a thinner piece of something and ended in cutting a piece of paperclip (not the regular ones, but a big one) that keeps in place perfectly with the only pressure of the strings. Well the intonation is not spot-on, but I swear it's perfectly OK for a cheap soprano. You can just try this simple tip and see if it solves the problem. If yes, you might want to put install a serious zero fret, but the modest piece of paperclip may do the job just as well.
Hope this helps, keep us posted.
Click to expand...
 
Not sure I’m replying to the correct post, but please post an update on how well the improvised paper clip zero fret continues to work on your inexpensive soprano. I’ve already cut the proper length from a large paper clip but am reluctant to file the nut slots as low as they need to be for the paper clip section to physically support the strings rather than the nut doing so. Such low action at the 1st fret seems likely to cause a buzz unless I can also sand just enough bone off the base of the saddle to leave the action exactly right.
 
Hmmm... My Magic Fluke has something like this molded into it's plastic fretboard... Now I get why they do this!
 
I have a zero fret on one of my ukes. I like it. Having said that, if your nut is good, a zero fret doesn't add anything. The real purpose is to make it easier for the luthier to achieve a good consistent action.
 
Oldscruggsfan said:
Not sure I’m replying to the correct post, but please post an update on how well the improvised paper clip zero fret continues to work on your inexpensive soprano. I’ve already cut the proper length from a large paper clip but am reluctant to file the nut slots as low as they need to be for the paper clip section to physically support the strings rather than the nut doing so. Such low action at the 1st fret seems likely to cause a buzz unless I can also sand just enough bone off the base of the saddle to leave the action exactly right.
Click to expand...

When all else fails, Measure!
You want something that sits at the same height as the frets do, or just slightly higher.
 
Last edited:
My impending tenor will have a fret zero. I am very excited! I'm cursed with a 'good ear', so spot-on intonation is really important to me. I hope that the fret zero will be a big bonus for me from that perspective.

Ben
 
bennyhana22 said:
My impending tenor will have a fret zero. I am very excited! I'm cursed with a 'good ear', so spot-on intonation is really important to me. I hope that the fret zero will be a big bonus for me from that perspective.

Ben
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, no. A zero fret is not a guarantee of perfect intonation.
What a zero fret does for intonation, is that it makes it simpler and more reliable for a builder to consistently put the nut in the correct theoretical position, yet you still have to place the saddle correctly.
If you are being very fussy, then actually what you want to do is compensate the nuts position slightly, just as you would compensate the saddle position. A Zero fret makes any possible nut compensation more difficult to do.
 
anthonyg said:
Unfortunately, no. A zero fret is not a guarantee of perfect intonation.
What a zero fret does for intonation, is that it makes it simpler and more reliable for a builder to consistently put the nut in the correct theoretical position, yet you still have to place the saddle correctly.
If you are being very fussy, then actually what you want to do is compensate the nuts position slightly, just as you would compensate the saddle position. A Zero fret makes any possible nut compensation more difficult to do.
Click to expand...
Anthony G- Your reply to Bennyhana22 touches on the newbie follow up question I ought to have asked when seeking further info about adding an improvised zero fret that is a 35mm length of "big" paper clip. If I position that 1mm-thick metal on the fret board and flush against the nut, and then file the nut slots low enough that the only surface the strings touch between the saddle and the tuners is the improvised zero fret, the likely result seems to be that I've shortened my soprano uke's scale by that same 1mm, which (assuming that I started with correct scale length) seems likely to take intonation the wrong direction. Am I on the right track or am I overthinking this & just need to test it?
 
As besley indicated, while zero frets are often associated with cheap guitars, the Selmer Maccaferri guitars that Django played had zero frets as did Hofner arch tops and basses like Paul McCartney's.
There should be no need to adjust the action with a zero fret, since it is the equivalent of applying a capo as far as action is concerned. I have heard that a zero fret will give a more uniform sound since both fretted and unfretted strings are vibrating off a metal fret, rather than having an open string vibrating off a bone/plastic/ebony. . . nut.
I think the looks of a zero fret is what discourages more luthiers from using them, though the ZeroGlide zero fret in the original link looks to have solved that problem.
 
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