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bird's eye view of my ukelele
07-20-2017, 06:52 PM
stewmac says baritone ukes can have a scale length of 20-24 inches, but alot of other sites, and indeed real life ukes and listings, tend to say/be more like 19-20 inches

how long of a scale length could you have, and still call the instrument a baritone uke?

Croaky Keith
07-20-2017, 09:02 PM
Well if it is a longer scale than normal, 19~20", you could get away with calling it a 'long neck' baritone. :)

I think it may actually come down to construction, ukes are lightly constructed, (with generally less tension in the strings than a guitar, from what I can tell).

Booli
07-20-2017, 09:04 PM
stewmac says baritone ukes can have a scale length of 20-24 inches, but alot of other sites, and indeed real life ukes and listings, tend to say/be more like 19-20 inches

how long of a scale length could you have, and still call the instrument a baritone uke?

I am by no means an authority on these matters, but the following is what I have observed:

13"-14".........soprano uke
14.75"-16"....concert uke
17"-19".........tenor uke
19"-21.5"......baritone uke
22"-23".........tenor guitar
24"................7/8 size 'short scale' guitar
24.75"...........'Les Paul' scale length standard
25.5"..............Strat, Tele, classical guitar scale lengths standard

I know of a few others in this range, like Mandola, Irish Tenor Banjo, Octave Mandolin, but these are maybe outside the realm of what you are looking for, no?

Maybe this wiki page is helpful?: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scale_length_(string_instruments)

DownUpDave
07-21-2017, 12:37 AM
It seems most commercially made baritones have a scale length of 19" - 21-1/2" as Booli pointed out. LfdM is a custom builder who makes his baritones 22-1/4", that is the longest I am aware of at the moment

bird's eye view of my ukelele
07-21-2017, 04:57 AM
thanks guys! my friend who just made me a fab 2 string cigar box geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetar says she'll make me a uke too, i was wondering how long of a scale i could have and still call it a baritone uke and be able to take it to the seasons! i suspect i might use the following get-out-of-jail-free card, and call whatever it turns out to be...


a 'long neck' baritone. :)

Booli
07-21-2017, 05:17 AM
thanks guys! my friend who just made me a fab 2 string cigar box geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetar says she'll make me a uke too, i was wondering how long of a scale i could have and still call it a baritone uke and be able to take it to the seasons! i suspect i might use the following get-out-of-jail-free card, and call whatever it turns out to be...

YES!

Maybe PART of what makes it an ukulele or not is the TUNING and the music played on it, no?

I think if you tune it like a uke, it is a uke.

OTOH...

I have several ukes that were made and sold as ukes that I have in 5ths tunings, GDAE on a soprano, like a mandolin, and CGDA on a tenor, like a mandola or 'tenor guitar', what should they be called now?

They are NOT tuned GCEA nor gCEA, but the GDAE soprano is using the Aquila 30-U strings specially made for soprano ukes in this tuning, and I am using the D'Addario EJ99-TLG strings for CGDA, with the #3 & #4 strings from the set switched, which gives me a re-entrant 5ths tuning, and I just have the E string tuned only up to a D, thus C4-G3-D4-A4...

I will be 'calling' them 'ukes in fifths tunings' but the die-hard purists from either the mando or uke magisteria will likely call this blasphemy, but it matters not to me, for I make MUSIC, and that is what I care about. :)

So, BEV, I'd called it whatever you like and play whatever you like...and if worried that it can be used for Seasons - maybe it's time to learn multi-tracking so you can pull out one of your kewl-and-funky sopranos and have a duet with yourself and your new-to-be-built goodness from your CBG-making friend?

May I suggest that your own happiness should outweigh other concerns? :music:

WCBarnes
07-21-2017, 05:31 AM
The Pono Nui has a 23" scale length. I haven't heard anyone comment that it is not a baritone.

Croaky Keith
07-21-2017, 05:56 AM
May I suggest that your own happiness should outweigh other concerns? :music:

Definately! :) If I ever get any good on my harmonicas, it is likely to 'feature' in a future Season along with any of my ukes. ;)

bird's eye view of my ukelele
07-21-2017, 01:14 PM
thank you for the new posts!

that is a good point about the pono nui

and of course when the bari uke first came out, the idea was for something easier to play than guitar, for kids and lovely ladies with small hands, so 4 rather than 6 strings is key, i think that is a bigger factor even than reduced scale length, plus the smaller body makes the instrument so much easier to handle, i think we can safely say a cigar box will cover that and then some!

and thank you booli, for the encouragement!

DownUpDave
07-22-2017, 12:14 AM
The Pono Nui has a 23" scale length. I haven't heard anyone comment that it is not a baritone.

I completely forgot about the Pono Nui. I consider it more of a nylon string tenor guitar because of the body size but most refer to it as a ukulele. I know those that own them really like them

Rakelele
07-22-2017, 12:46 AM
There are several factors which contribute to our understanding of what an ukulele (or any other stringed instrument) is, like string courses, string material, tuning, and scale length. Then there are grey areas such as "long neck soprano" which, according to its scale length, could just as well be labelled "small body concert". In this sense, a long neck tenor could be used as a small baritone. Then there are some intersections between baritones and tenor guitars, which also have four courses, but normally steel strings. They can also be tuned to DGBE,which is referred to as "Chicago Tuning".

Personally, I enjoy this grey area the most, with little interest for what it is called. Among my favorite instruments are the Pono Nui (23") and their UL4 (21.4") made for steel strings. In my own thinking, both are being used as baritones, tuned to DGBE (or relative to that). Even with a longer scale of, say, 24" or even 26", I would be using a four course instrument in the same way, so I would be considering it a baritone, too.

Croaky Keith
07-22-2017, 01:53 AM
The fox is in the hen house - the cat's among the pidgeons. :smileybounce:

Seems like this is a little bit of a controversial area. :cheers:

LimousinLil
07-22-2017, 06:59 AM
I completely forgot about the Pono Nui. I consider it more of a nylon string tenor guitar because of the body size but most refer to it as a ukulele. I know those that own them really like them

I have got the Pono "Big Bari" .... it's definitely a baritone uke, not a tenor guitar. (Have no idea whether it could be tuned in fifths.)

bird's eye view of my ukelele
07-22-2017, 02:50 PM
Even with a longer scale of, say, 24" or even 26", I would be using a four course instrument in the same way, so I would be considering it a baritone, too.
that's just how i feel!


val thanks for swinging by, i love your pono nui, it looks and sounds gorgeous, i was thinking of you when i started this thread actually! like dave says, everyone who has one really loves those ukes

southcoastukes
07-22-2017, 03:41 PM
I will emphatically disagree with several of the posts in this thread.

We've built these sort of instruments long before Pono introduced theirs (the Ponos are fine instruments BTW). When it comes to defining instruments by name there are certain conventions. We've always held that those who go by scale only miss the primary determinant of sound: the body size.

So what we would say in regards to the possibilities being discussed here is that "longneck Baritone" would be an instrument with a body size approximately that of a standard Baritone (they vary a bit), but with a scale longer than say 21". But if you're going to increase both the body and the scale, then you've got another instrument.

The Pono Baritone Nui was originally called a Tenor Guitar (in one way or another, can't recall exactly). The body is as large as many Tenor Guitars, the scale length is the same. That body has a depth of resonance suitable for a C note, so it has the depth for a C g d' a' fifths tuning. The only reason it doesn't work as well as a traditional Tenor Guitar in that tuning is that the 1st string is delicate in steel. You'd replace it all the time with classical material.

They decided that since it was strung with classical strings, the name "Tenor Guitar" was confusing those who were used to a Tenor Guitar being strung with steel. So "Baritone Nui" was decided on as something that people might not get as confused about. I have no problems with a builder naming his instrument in whatever fashion he feels appropriate. And I have no problems with the name Baritone Nui. However "Nui" in Hawaiian signifies "Big". In effect, the name means "Big Baritone".

But based on significant increases in both body and scale, we'd say the Baritone Nui is not a Baritone Ukulele. The key is that it's a NUI. We use the term "Classical Tenor Guitar", but as I said, no problem with Baritone Nui; just remember the "Nui".

To say that simply because they're often tuned the same they should have the same name is a false argument. A Soprano Ukulele can be tuned to a reentrant C tuning and so can a Tenor Ukuele. Do you want stop using the term "Tenor Ukulele" and start calling it a "Big Giant Soprano" based on tuning?

bird's eye view of my ukelele
07-22-2017, 04:50 PM
that's very interesting about body size

as i'm looking to have a friend build me the *whatever it is we're gonna call it!* using a cigar box body, body-size wise i'd say it might well be "a very very very VERY long neck soprano uke"! but tuning and strings-wise it's gonna be DGBE and nylon. "long neck tiny body cigar box bari"????? i'm gonna have to come up with something a bit more catchy, i think!

Croaky Keith
07-22-2017, 10:54 PM
Cigar Box Bari

After all, if it is bari scale length, that is the main thing to the player - though I would also agree that body size is a denominator as well - that's why I say it is a controversial area - never thought of the Nui as a bari, personally speaking. :)

NotAnotherLinda
07-23-2017, 06:21 AM
I'm no expert but you can probably call the instrument that you're having made what you like, it won't hear you.

bird's eye view of my ukelele
07-23-2017, 01:00 PM
yeah keith, CBB, cool abbreviation too!

but graham they can hear you! and they talk back. my new 2 string was crying, until i let it play some trex

MolegripVonMousetrouser
08-01-2017, 10:57 PM
I'm no expert but you can probably call the instrument that you're having made what you like, it won't hear you.

I agree :-) I have got a "hybrid" instrument that was made for me as follows, because this was the sound that I was looking for and I am used to playing ukuleles: baritone scale (21.75"), baritone neck width, wooden bodied resonator built for steel strings - although it also works very nicely with classical strings.

When I was using steel strings I got really sick of people telling me that it was not a Baritone Ukulele and that it was "really" a tenor guitar. The scale is a bit short for a Tenor Guitar, the neck definitely too wide and body size too small for a Tenor Guitar.

I told the maker that I was being pestered about what sort of instrument it was and asked him what he would call it. He thought about it and then said, "A Squillum".

So now that is what I say it is. If anyone then replies, "What are THEY?" I just say, "There's only one, and this is it." Saves a whole lot of bother! If he ever made more of them, which is unlikely, I do hope that he would call them "Squillums"!

Though it probably would not take long for someone to say, "Actually, this is an Argentinian Bandersnatch. My grandfather had a photograph that he took in 1926 in Tierra del Fuego of an old man playing one of these and he said that the old man told him it was a Bandersnatch. I later discovered that it was built and designed by the Norwegian explorer Lars Andersnage and the Welsh-speaking locals called it, affectionately, Ap (son of) Andersnage. This was misheard by Spanish-speakers in the area as 'Bandersnatch'. The earliest written record of this instrument, on a Wanted Dead or Alive poster for notorious bank robber Hiram J. Squillum, describes Squillum brandishing his Bandersnatch at terrifed bank staff. IMHO this is how confusion about the name arose."

I have used both Tenor Guitar Strings and steel Guitar Strings on it in the past but I happen to have Thomastic flatwound classical strings on it at the moment. They look rather like steel Guitar Strings so, when the usual questions start, I think I might have to start explaining it as something like, "A Baritone ukulele version of a Dobro but with classical guitar strings, like a little Del Vecchio Dinamico."

The original question is about maximum scale length for a Baritone but minimum length is also grey area, as has been mentioned. Some "ukulele sizes" seem to have got bigger over time, a bit like the way the newest model of car is always bigger than the previous incarnation, until eventually the manufacturer comes out with a new, smaller model and gives it a different name. (I have seen several descriptions of old Tenor Ukuleles that include a caveat along the lines of, "this is more the size that would be called a concert ukulele today".)

My old Harmony baritone has a 18.75" scale and I have been told more than once that it is too small to be a Baritone and is "really" a Tenor Ukulele. (Are tenor ukes getting bigger too??)

I agree with Dirk about tuning being a red herring. I have got a Soprano strung with Southcoast Ukes cuatro strings and tuned DGBE - it is still a soprano ukulele. (Personally, I would be more comfortable thinking of it as a tiny cuatro rather than a tiny Baritone. The form of the tuning seems more relevant than the sound that rings out when you strum open strings.)

I wonder . . . with there being more and more "non standard", mix-and-match combinations of scale length, body size and depth, with a whole variety of naming conventions, will there be more of a tendency to focus on the spec details, in order to work out what cases might fit and what strings to use for particular tunings? And use of equivalences, like, "Brand X model Y is much the same size as Brand A model B"?

It is interesting what Dirk explained above about the naming/marketing history of the Pono Nui:

"The Pono Baritone Nui was originally called a Tenor Guitar (in one way or another, can't recall exactly). The body is as large as many Tenor Guitars, the scale length is the same. That body has a depth of resonance suitable for a C note, so it has the depth for a C g d' a' fifths tuning. The only reason it doesn't work as well as a traditional Tenor Guitar in that tuning is that the 1st string is delicate in steel. You'd replace it all the time with classical material.

They decided that since it was strung with classical strings, the name "Tenor Guitar" was confusing those who were used to a Tenor Guitar being strung with steel. So "Baritone Nui" was decided on as something that people might not get as confused about. I have no problems with a builder naming his instrument in whatever fashion he feels appropriate. And I have no problems with the name Baritone Nui. However "Nui" in Hawaiian signifies "Big". In effect, the name means "Big Baritone".

But based on significant increases in both body and scale, we'd say the Baritone Nui is not a Baritone Ukulele. The key is that it's a NUI. We use the term "Classical Tenor Guitar", but as I said, no problem with Baritone Nui; just remember the "Nui"."


Exercises in ukulele "instrument taxonomy", attempting to classify and categorise, are cross-cut with marketing strategies.

I have been looking at the Cordoba Mini recently - scale length 20" so falling into the "Baritone size" area. In discussions about the Mini there seems to be quite a difference depending on whether the comments are primarily from people who are first and foremost ukulele players or are from people who very obviously only have a guitar background.

"Ukulele players" seem to "get" the Cordoba Mini, understanding and welcoming it as a type of "guitarlele/guitalele/guilele etc." - and to a lesser extent as a "mini classical guitar" if you string it differently.

"Guitarists" often seem to be quite confused about it, because of the option of ADGCEA tuning and also because it is small but does not have steel strings, ie. like a Tenor Guitar or Parlour Guitar.

Cordoba seem to be targeting guitarists, by calling it a "Mini" (miniature guitar) but my impression is that they might have been better off targeting ukulele players and calling it something like a "wide necked Guitarlele". . . . or maybe not. Perhaps there are still so many more guitarists in the world than ukulele players that it makes way more sense to "sell" it as a miniature guitar? That does not stop retailers marketing it and ukulele players "adopting" it as a type of "Guitarlele", of course.

The Cordoba Mini also made me think about the disputed birth and subsequent history of the Baritone Ukulele. Whether or not the Baritone was first invented as a small, simplified guitar by Herk Favilla it is, at the moment, primarily thought of and marketed as the "big ukulele" that, perhaps, was instead envisioned by Arthur Godfrey and invented by Eddie Connors.

Give it another ten or twenty years and I bet the parameters and terminology of a discussion like this will have changed again :-)

Best wishes,
Liz

bird's eye view of my ukelele
08-02-2017, 06:19 PM
ah yes the Argentinian Bandersnatch, i have three of those!

what a great post, thank you!

with regard to the seasons, people do take guitarleles and tenor guitars there. uke-love obviously can take you down the road to owning many many many ukes, but it can also take you on a journey towards other, "similar"-in-some-way instruments, guitars, cbg's and the like.

as well as scale for my bari, i also am thinking about strings, at first i thought defo nylon strings, and then later, as it's gonna be a cigar box guitar style build, i thought maybe steel strings.............. the great thing about a simple cbg structure is, it'll happily take either. those gorgeous electric-guitar-style risa ukes have steel strings, and i have a jupiter creek solid body baritone electric uke that has steel strings.

clearly the uke has evolved and developed beyond its soprano origins, it's been adapted into different forms by big manufacturers and it would seem increasingly adapted by uke-lovers and amateur builders, who can, as with the famous squillum, take what they love best about a uke, and what they most would like in a uke, and blend it all into one real life instrument

Croaky Keith
08-02-2017, 10:27 PM
Yeah, the uke is not just one thing - different scale lengths, different body styles & sizes, different string types, different woods, different body materials, & most important, different people like to play them. :D

Booli
08-03-2017, 01:49 AM
when I die, I want to have


Booli Deano
lover and player of the
Argentinian Bandersnatch Squillum
and anything remotely related
to UKULELE


written on my headstone. :)

MolegripVonMousetrouser
08-03-2017, 03:41 AM
when I die, I want to have


Booli Deano
lover and player of the
Argentinian Bandersnatch Squillum
and anything remotely related
to UKULELE


written on my headstone. :)

Ha ha!!!! :-D

MolegripVonMousetrouser
08-03-2017, 07:45 AM
ah yes the Argentinian Bandersnatch, i have three of those!

Damned collectors cornering the market!!!


what a great post, thank you!

Thank you, Birdseye! I don't know what came over me. I think the Chemist must had muddled up the prescriptions and given me the wrong tablets!


clearly the uke has evolved and developed beyond its soprano origins, it's been adapted into different forms by big manufacturers and it would seem increasingly adapted by uke-lovers and amateur builders, who can, as with the famous squillum, take what they love best about a uke, and what they most would like in a uke, and blend it all into one real life instrument

It is all rather wonderful, isn't it, Birdseye!!! I love the way that just by changing the string set-up and tuning that you can get what is effectively a completely different instrument in terms of the sound!

Now, I am going to veer away slightly (!) from the specifics of Baritone uke scale length again for a bit but . . . something struck me reading what you said there, Birdseye, put alongside earlier comments by Booli. In particular the first and last statements in this quote, which I have high-lighted in red:




Maybe PART of what makes it an ukulele or not is the TUNING and the music played on it, no?

I think if you tune it like a uke, it is a uke.

OTOH...

I have several ukes that were made and sold as ukes that I have in 5ths tunings, GDAE on a soprano, like a mandolin, and CGDA on a tenor, like a mandola or 'tenor guitar', what should they be called now?

They are NOT tuned GCEA nor gCEA, but the GDAE soprano is using the Aquila 30-U strings specially made for soprano ukes in this tuning, and I am using the D'Addario EJ99-TLG strings for CGDA, with the #3 & #4 strings from the set switched, which gives me a re-entrant 5ths tuning, and I just have the E string tuned only up to a D, thus C4-G3-D4-A4...

I will be 'calling' them 'ukes in fifths tunings' . . .

I am not seeking to stir up any controversy by what follows. Instead, I think it is interesting to explore these ideas and some parallels with other instruments.

So, if we can agree that:


we are NOT delving into formal, academic systems of instrument classification;
that we can call "uke-like things" whatever we like;
that some "grey areas" eventually shade into something that has already been identified and named as a different instrument, characterised by the way that it is traditionally made, tuned, played and used ("used" meaning the "sort of" of the music traditionally created and its "purpose" - dance, worship, battle, etc.)


One of the parallels that struck me is that with a number of instruments that have "Jarana" and/or "Jarocha" in their names.

Kevin Parsons, who built my "Squillum", is a very inquisitive luthier, with more time to experiment and explore other instruments since he retired, ie. stopped taking commissions and making instead whatever takes his fancy. He mentioned the other day that he was intrigued by the various "Jarana Jarochas", not how they are made so much as how they are played, how they are strung and tuned and how they are used. (He likes to learn how to play traditional instruments in the traditional way when he gets his hands on them, to better understand how they "work".)

He could not find any "Jarana Jarocha" videos so I sent him a bunch of links (https://www.revolvy.com/topic/Jarana%20jarocha&stype=videos) that I had found.

His reply included the following observations:

"I've only looked at a few of the videos but they have answered some of the questions I had, like:

"How many strings do they have?"
Answer: "How many would you like?"

"How are they arranged?"
Answer: "That's up to you"

"What size are they?"
Answer: "That depends on the tree we cut down."



Sound familiar? :)

(There are also "standardised" Jarana Jarochas made by professional luthiers, eg. Candelas (http://www.candelas.com/jaranas.php).)

That does not cover "how they are played and how they are used", however. I think that Venezuelan Cuatros and Ukuleles are a good example of two instruments that are, traditionally, at the same time very similar but quite distinct - and an opportunity to get back a bit closer the the original topic!

Traditional "ukulele playing" and "cuatro playing" are similar but there are some big differences too. For example, I remember seeing a UU instructional video on the "down chunk/chuck" and in the comments someone asked if it was possible to do an "up chunk/chuck". The answer given was, "No". Of course it is possible, eg. the cuatro-style "ascending frenado" can be played on a ukulele, although the usual arrangement of the strings on a ukulele means that it is less well suited to this stroke.

In terms of purpose, the cuatro is, I think, traditionally played as part of a "dance band" and the style of music is traditional "dance music". (If I am wrong, I have no problem being corrected on this or any other matter!) Ukuleles can be played that way too of course, although the dances and the music are usually very different - Del Rey is very good on this subject (https://youtu.be/u-UlyJ3uOHg?t=1m55s)!

Venezuelan Cuatro sizes are usually given in terms of number of frets rather than scale length. The 14 fret cuatro is about the same size as a Baritone Ukulele. Cuatros strings are usually tuned to D (A-D-F#-B), with a low A and a low B.

However, there is absolutely no reason why you cannot set up cuatro with strings suitable for any variant of ukulele tuning, eg. GCEA or DGBE or whatever else you fancy, re-entrant with a high 4th string or linear.

So, a 14 fret Cuatro makes a very nice Baritone ukulele, about 19"-20" scale length. I think Dirk would confirm that a cuatro would also very likely be made in a way that is "truer" to traditional methods of making the smaller ukuleles, ie. rather than to "guitar maker" methods of making Baritone ukuleles?

The question in my head after all this, and I would be very interested in picking Dirk's brains on this matter, is how are the cuatros larger than 14 fret designed?

I have only seen one 17 fret cuatro: the neck was longer than a traditional 14 fret cuatro and the body was bigger too. However, in these illustrations on Alfonso Sandoval's blog (Google translation to English) (https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fbandolalina.blogspot.co.uk%2Fp%2Fe l-cuatro-venezolano.html&edit-text=) the cuatros up to 23 fret all look as if the longer necks are not matched by an obvious increase in body size.

What say you, Dirk? Are these larger cuatros rather like "long necked Baritones"? Or not?

(I can't work out if it is possible to "tag" people in comments so I am trying linking to Dirk's profile to see if that sends some sort of notification: southcoastukes (http://forum.ukuleleunderground.com/member.php?27014-southcoastukes) )

I found this info about the Venezuelan Cuatro in the Trinidad Guardian. I don't know if it is accurate though so comments confirming or correcting would be much welcomed!

History of the cuatro

The cuatro has very remote origins. Some argue that it already existed in 3,000 BC, because there have been similar pieces found in Egypt.

The Cuatro came to Venezuela with the first Spanish conquerors and has been around for the last 500 years. It represents the authentic guitar from the Renaissance. This piece is the closest relative to the guitar, which hasnít only evolved to produce this instrument, but has also evolved into other similar pieces.

The cuatro of Venezuela is a feather-light, four-string, tiny guitar, particularly designed for strumming. This instrument is deeply and lovingly ingrained into the folkloric traditions of its people. Indeed, it often is strummed in a way that recalls the flamenco style of Spanish guitar playing.


http://legacy.guardian.co.tt/archives/2005-05-21/features4.html


I think I had better go and have a lie down now! :)

Liz

quiltingshirley
08-03-2017, 08:06 AM
Interesting topic. Now for my question. Where are you measuring from: the nut to the top of the bridge, where that saddle thingy sticks up, the knot or bead? My small custom guitar is smaller in size than some of my baritones but the strings are longer. (From Thomas) But my little Pepe Romero is bigger than the baritones and of course none of the baritones are the same. So is the string length the important factor? Confusing.

Croaky Keith
08-03-2017, 08:18 AM
The scale length of a stringed instrument is the distance between the nut & the saddle.

quiltingshirley
08-03-2017, 08:20 AM
Thanks, I'll need the tape measure.

bratsche
08-03-2017, 09:49 AM
I always thought this instrument was very uke-ish (except for number of strings). It has a 14.75" scale and double re-entrant tuning. And no, I can't begin to play the darn thing, which was a souvenir that I somehow can't bring myself to part with. It's just too small for me! (Bragging rights to the first one who correctly identifies it.)

bratsche

Booli
08-03-2017, 10:01 AM
I always thought this instrument was very uke-ish (except for number of strings). It has a 14.75" scale and double re-entrant tuning. And no, I can't begin to play the darn thing, which was a souvenir that I somehow can't bring myself to part with. It's just too small for me! (Bragging rights to the first one who correctly identifies it.)

bratsche

looks like a cavaquinho, or bruguesa to me, possibly tuned D-G-b-d-F?

edited to add - why note tune it in fifths like a mando? Good luck finding a nylon string for that E5 note :(

MolegripVonMousetrouser
08-03-2017, 10:47 AM
I always thought this instrument was very uke-ish (except for number of strings). It has a 14.75" scale and double re-entrant tuning. And no, I can't begin to play the darn thing, which was a souvenir that I somehow can't bring myself to part with. It's just too small for me! (Bragging rights to the first one who correctly identifies it.)

bratsche

Timple - The sort from the Canary Isles.

My favourite Timple video :-)


https://youtu.be/AcRCDPBCQA4

MolegripVonMousetrouser
08-03-2017, 10:49 AM
Interesting topic. Now for my question. Where are you measuring from: the nut to the top of the bridge, where that saddle thingy sticks up, the knot or bead? My small custom guitar is smaller in size than some of my baritones but the strings are longer. (From Thomas) But my little Pepe Romero is bigger than the baritones and of course none of the baritones are the same. So is the string length the important factor? Confusing.

From the nut to the 12th fret x 2 :-)

bird's eye view of my ukelele
08-03-2017, 05:55 PM
this thread is getting so interesting!!!!!!!

for a long time i was fascinated by this vid and the instrument in it


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUcTsFe1PVs

of course having just watched it again i am once more totally obsessed!!!

i have just done some maths and i think the general equation for this discussion is

one or more strings + some kind of box = an insane amount of fun + some form of instrument acquisition syndrome diagnosis

Booli
08-03-2017, 06:19 PM
this thread is getting so interesting!!!!!!!

for a long time i was fascinated by this vid and the instrument in it


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUcTsFe1PVs

of course having just watched it again i am once more totally obsessed!!!

i have just done some maths and i think the general equation for this discussion is

one or more strings + some kind of box = an insane amount of fun + some form of instrument acquisition syndrome diagnosis

That video is mesmerizing!

The instrument sounds kinda like a Japanese Shamisen, but an octave lower and looks kinda like a McNally Strumstick...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamisen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWJrMA3zJ5o

https://strumstick.com/

As per your wonderful and expert maths, I think that as musicians we are all prone to this fretted and fretless noisemaking addiction to the point that it becomes an incurable (but not usually fatal) disease - a disease of obsession...

and one that I welcome to consume me and take over my life, sacrificing all else :music: :rock: :nana:

bratsche
08-03-2017, 06:37 PM
Timple - The sort from the Canary Isles.

Ding ding ding! We have a winner! And thanks for the video. When the singer started, I got goosebumps. Brought back such memories. When I lived there in my twenties, even though I played in the symphony orchestras, I liked to go to the folklore events and take in the local music, which I found fascinating.. When I left, I lamented not having many good recordings, but then much later, YouTube happened. Yay!

Now there is this amazing guy, who wasn't even born yet when I was over there, who is putting an updated and virtuosic life into the timple and the canciones tipicas canarias. (I'll just put some links so as to avoid further thread hijacking.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEw44Zb3h2I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtqthqdBG6A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56bBYZ2s94A

Maybe the timple is so uke-ish because the Canaries are like Spain's Hawaii? I wonder! ;)

bratsche

MolegripVonMousetrouser
08-04-2017, 04:49 AM
for a long time i was fascinated by this vid and the instrument in it


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUcTsFe1PVs

of course having just watched it again i am once more totally obsessed!!!

i have just done some maths and i think the general equation for this discussion is

one or more strings + some kind of box = an insane amount of fun + some form of instrument acquisition syndrome diagnosis

THAT VIDEO IS AMAZING!!!! Thank you SO much for sharing it, BEV!

I agree with your equation too! :)





That video is mesmerizing!

The instrument sounds kinda like a Japanese Shamisen, but an octave lower and looks kinda like a McNally Strumstick...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamisen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWJrMA3zJ5o

https://strumstick.com/

As per your wonderful and expert maths, I think that as musicians we are all prone to this fretted and fretless noisemaking addiction to the point that it becomes an incurable (but not usually fatal) disease - a disease of obsession...

and one that I welcome to consume me and take over my life, sacrificing all else

MORE instruments to check out!! Thank you, Booli!!


Ding ding ding! We have a winner! And thanks for the video. When the singer started, I got goosebumps. Brought back such memories. When I lived there in my twenties, even though I played in the symphony orchestras, I liked to go to the folklore events and take in the local music, which I found fascinating.. When I left, I lamented not having many good recordings, but then much later, YouTube happened. Yay!

Now there is this amazing guy, who wasn't even born yet when I was over there, who is putting an updated and virtuosic life into the timple and the canciones tipicas canarias. (I'll just put some links so as to avoid further thread hijacking.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEw44Zb3h2I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtqthqdBG6A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56bBYZ2s94A

Maybe the timple is so uke-ish because the Canaries are like Spain's Hawaii? I wonder! ;)

bratsche

Hi Bratsche! Do I get a prize?

I knew it was a Timple because, by a weird coincidence, my friend who made the "Argentinian Bandersnatch Squillum" (!) got a Timple recently and when I popped around yesterday to talk about converting a U-Tar to a 6 string ukulele - there he was practicing his Timple strokes! When I came back and checked in to UU, I saw your teaser!

I like the idea that the Canaries are like "Spain's Hawaii"! However . . . maybe the link is more between Madeira, where the "parents" of the ukulele emigrated from to Hawaii? Not so far from the Canary Isles :-)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macaronesia
101965

Liz

Booli
08-04-2017, 05:32 AM
I am learning so MUCH from this thread now.

@MvM and bratsche - thank you for contributing all of the great, new info...

I have lots of homework and study to do for learning about these new instruments, as it seems my understanding of how the ukulele came to Hawaii via the Ravenscrag from Portugal, has been incomplete in terms of the other divergent paths of a shorter-scale (than guitar) similar instruments...

Literally, it is a WHOLE new WORLD to explore!

Life seems even shorter now, for I want to be able to try, and to play them all...and fear that I'll not have enough time.

/sigh/

bratsche
08-04-2017, 07:06 AM
Hi Bratsche! Do I get a prize?

Yes! You have won "bragging rights"! :)


I knew it was a Timple because, by a weird coincidence, my friend who made the "Argentinian Bandersnatch Squillum" (!) got a Timple recently and when I popped around yesterday to talk about converting a U-Tar to a 6 string ukulele - there he was practicing his Timple strokes! When I came back and checked in to UU, I saw your teaser!

And here I thought you had been in the Canaries too! There were a lot of British tourists and expatriates when I was there, where I lived and in the orchestras I played in.


I like the idea that the Canaries are like "Spain's Hawaii"! However . . . maybe the link is more between Madeira, where the "parents" of the ukulele emigrated from to Hawaii? Not so far from the Canary Isles :-)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macaronesia
101965


Well, Madeira can certainly be Portugal's Hawaii, then! ;) The Canaries as Spain's Hawaii analogy hit me because they're more southern and tropical. Also the volcanoes, black sand beaches, rich cultural traditions, and the people's fiercely independent pride and distinction from the mainlanders. I don't know how much of that describes Madeira as well (never having visited), and I never knew it was also an archipelago. I also never heard of Macaronesia as a sort of "umbrella archipelago" encompassing all those different ones. This is certainly an educational forum!

bratsche