PDA

View Full Version : Jointless Rosettes



Timbuck
09-01-2017, 08:37 AM
I used to make these on the lathe by laminating a tube...but that was a bit hit and miss..I now do them another way..I did a post on this method last year, but thanks to Photobucket all that info has now gone forever :( So now it will have to be a trade secret.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4382/36964054495_3eaea0f1c6.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/YjorAp)PICT0021 (https://flic.kr/p/YjorAp) by Ken Timms (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150702140@N02/), on Flickr

Michael N.
09-01-2017, 10:24 AM
There are only three possibilities: butt, mitre and scarf. Even if you spiral them it's effectively a scarf.
BTW. I call them a closed ring rosette.

mikeyb2
09-01-2017, 11:25 AM
I remember the post, but I'll keep your secret Ken!

Michael N.
09-02-2017, 12:30 AM
They are difficult to get perfect (or near perfect). Then again it's something that few players would notice, unless the joints are very poor. It's more a pride thing for the maker. Of course if you cover that part with the fretboard you're home and dry. Much easier.


102755

Timbuck
09-02-2017, 12:36 AM
I remember the post, but I'll keep your secret Ken!
OK I'll share I hate secrets ;) ...Yes! it's scarf joints Michael...I have a jig to cut the strips to the correct length and angle for the scarf (and i do spiral them).. but then I glue them up first in a Teflon block with a rosette channel cut into it the same size as the uke channel, this way I can adjust any minor errors at an early stage...when i'm satisfied that no joins are visible and the glue is cured, I remove it in one piece and fit it to the uke top...sounds like lot of fiddling about but it dosn't take long to do..and it's very satisfying, as I once had a uke returned co's a joint was showing on a white ring the complainant(Nitpicker) said "that once it was noticed his eye was drawn to it every time he opened the case". :uhoh:

mikeyb2
09-02-2017, 02:52 AM
Actually Ken, that's not what I was thinking about. I seem to remember the use of a suitable diameter drain pipe, sliced up. Or have I read that elsewhere?

stevepetergal
09-02-2017, 03:02 AM
Could this be done in bulk, similar to the way classical guitar rosettes are made? Make a long WBW tube and slice off rosettes?

Timbuck
09-02-2017, 04:13 AM
Could this be done in bulk, similar to the way classical guitar rosettes are made? Make a long WBW tube and slice off rosettes? I used to do em that way..but this way gives me what I'm after..the joints still show with the tube method.

Michael N.
09-02-2017, 04:14 AM
OK I'll share I hate secrets ;) ...Yes! it's scarf joints Michael...I have a jig to cut the strips to the correct length and angle for the scarf (and i do spiral them).. but then I glue them up first in a Teflon block with a rosette channel cut into it the same size as the uke channel, this way I can adjust any minor errors at an early stage...when i'm satisfied that no joins are visible and the glue is cured, I remove it in one piece and fit it to the uke top...sounds like lot of fiddling about but it dosn't take long to do..and it's very satisfying, as I once had a uke returned co's a joint was showing on a white ring the complainant(Nitpicker) said "that once it was noticed his eye was drawn to it every time he opened the case". :uhoh:

I've seen many examples on relatively expensive guitars where the joints are easily visible. It's not an easy thing to do. . . unless you know how to do it. In my experience there's an awful lot that don't.
They can be done in bulk and sliced off. The one that I showed was done that way. I think I got six out of the glue up.

sequoia
09-02-2017, 06:27 PM
Since I don't build sopranos, I don't have to worry about gaps since the fretboard is going to cover up that area. I once thought about trying a perfect join at that spot and then I thought: Why? Because perfection is perfection even if it can't be seen. Then I thought that is seriously obsessive. The nice part about this area is that it is one of the few areas on an uke that imperfection doesn't matter. I like that. (By the way note the pencil register line I forgot to erase on the back center. Doh! That I will remove.

102762

Michael N.
09-02-2017, 09:25 PM
It is obsessive. In some ways we are driven to that obsessiveness, after all how is one going to stand out from the rest in a world that is full of makers? The bar just keeps getting set higher. I've seen it happen in my own lifetime. It kind of ends up with instruments that look as though they've been made by machine, with finishes so highly polished that they could be used to observe Pluto. The only makers who seem to buck the trend are the violin lot and that's only because the golden age of violin making was 350+ years ago. They are much more concerned with style over any rigid perfectionism, at least in a woodworking sense. Of course it's not just any old style though, there's a type of perfectionism to that too.

Timbuck
09-02-2017, 11:13 PM
I've seen many examples on relatively expensive guitars where the joints are easily visible. It's not an easy thing to do. . . unless you know how to do it. In my experience there's an awful lot that don't.
They can be done in bulk and sliced off. The one that I showed was done that way. I think I got six out of the glue up.
That's excellent work Michael i'd like to see the process.

Michael N.
09-02-2017, 11:29 PM
It was done a long time ago Ken, more than 10 years ago and I haven't made that style of rosette since. I know I made it on a former. I've made similar one off types, which were joined in the rosette channel of the soundboard, rather than made separate and then inlaid.
The technique that I used was to overlap the veneer and cut through that overlap with a scalpel, scarf cut. it's virtually the same idea as the wallpaper joint.
That's the only way that I could reliably get near invisible joints. I've also done them by nibbling away until it fits. That can work too but it's a bit hit and miss, might take a few attempts until it's 'good enough'.

Timbuck
09-02-2017, 11:46 PM
It was done a long time ago Ken, more than 10 years ago and I haven't made that style of rosette since. I know I made it on a former. I've made similar one off types, which were joined in the rosette channel of the soundboard, rather than made separate and then inlaid.
The technique that I used was to overlap the veneer and cut through that overlap with a scalpel, scarf cut. it's virtually the same idea as the wallpaper joint.
That's the only way that I could reliably get near invisible joints. I've also done them by nibbling away until it fits. That can work too but it's a bit hit and miss, might take a few attempts until it's 'good enough'.
Yes! I do the nibbling as well....take a fraction too much off and youve got a gap. so then you make another strip and start again ;)