Rosewood fretboards vs Walnut fretboards.

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This subject is being talked about in another thread, but I think it deserves its own. I noticed that Kala is saying on their site that they discontinued importing ukuleles with rosewood fretboards as of July 1st, and that they are instead importing ukuleles with walnut fretboards. Why is rosewood such a popular material for fretboard? I wonder if there is any difference between rosewood fretboards and walnut fretboards, other than the wood is a bit different in color?
 
Rosewood is hard, and looks good. It now restricted for shipment overseas due to the CITIES treaty, as it is considered endangered. Lots of manufacturers are now using alternate tonewoods for the fretboard. I've seen Kiwaya using walnut, while Martin is using sipo and morado. Maybe some ears could hear a difference, but I probably couldn't. Walnut often appears lighter in color. Probably most important is hardness, to prevent wear from fingers and nails.
 
I don't like either wood for a fretboard. Too light in color, and both often have unsightly pores. I like dark (for maximum contrast) and dense (for durability), so I'm naturally a sucker for ebony fretboards. I'm surprised that so many expensive ukes have rosewood.

bratsche
 
I just bought a new Caramel Pocket Uke and Choirboy asked me if it had a walnut fret board. According to Caramel's ad it is rose wood but... It is a lot lighter in color than my other rosewood fret boards and could be walnut? Of course for only a $29 Uke it might be most anything. I did oil it but it soaked the oil right up and didn't change color much. It may take a couple of more coats to do that.

I've seen Ukes with Maple fret boards and they should be plenty hard enough to resist fingernails.
 
rosewood has a hardness in the 1200's
walnut has a hardness in the 900-1000's

i think it's a matter of durability more than tone. I don't think the fretboard does much for tone, as the neck is mostly determined by the actual neck wood, and not the fretboard veneer.

On the one hand... you might think.. the frets take most of the wear and they're metal. But if you look at old instruments... the fretboard actually does wear and can go concave between the frets. I think it's more an issue when you do things like bend where you're really pushing on the string, and subsequently it's rubbing the wood between the frets.
 
rosewood has a hardness in the 1200's
walnut has a hardness in the 900-1000's

i think it's a matter of durability more than tone. I don't think the fretboard does much for tone, as the neck is mostly determined by the actual neck wood, and not the fretboard veneer.

On the one hand... you might think.. the frets take most of the wear and they're metal. But if you look at old instruments... the fretboard actually does wear and can go concave between the frets. I think it's more an issue when you do things like bend where you're really pushing on the string, and subsequently it's rubbing the wood between the frets.

Durability it is, and walnut -- to me -- doesn't make the grade, it's just too soft. We did make a violin with a walnut fingerboard because the customer wanted it to match his mandolin. I addressed the hardness concern by saturating with epoxy under pressure and then a top coat to resist abrasion. We'll know how well it worked in a decade or two.

And, I'm just finishing up a series of uke prototypes. Some of these had hollow necks with a sound port at the head-stock, some had hollow necks sealed-off from the main body and some had necks filled with epoxy mixed with phenolic micro-balloons (to simulate the density of wood). From my experience having done this I can say that the density of the neck makes quite a noticeable difference in the instrument's voice. The winner, to my ear, was clearly the filled neck.

I would imagine that a lot of uke importers consider the fact the most of the instruments they sell will never be played much. Lots of stuff we consumers buy never sees a lot of use. How many here have some sort of exercise equipment that mostly acts as a dust magnet? From a marketing/sales perspective it makes more sense to put the money into appearance as opposed to sound quality and durability. A study of those who purchased violins revealed that people bought primarily on the basis of three criteria, in decreasing order of importance: The maker's name, appearance and -- lastly -- the sound.
 
I just bought a new Caramel Pocket Uke and Choirboy asked me if it had a walnut fret board. According to Caramel's ad it is rose wood but... It is a lot lighter in color than my other rosewood fret boards and could be walnut? Of course for only a $29 Uke it might be most anything. I did oil it but it soaked the oil right up and didn't change color much. It may take a couple of more coats to do that.

I've seen Ukes with Maple fret boards and they should be plenty hard enough to resist fingernails.

Lots of "rosewood" varieties around, some entirely unrelated to Brazilian rosewood, which most consider the real thing. Brazilian is on the most restrictive CITES list. Cocobolo is probably the closest real thing that doesn't seem to be listed by CITES but is still hard to find and pricey. The harder varieties of maple really are quite good -- hard, dense, easy to finish and holds frets well.
 
I can understand the durability issue on an unfretted instrument like a violin, cello, fretless bass, etc. That said....I'd say if a person is wearing out a fretboard on a fretted instrument, their technique is wrong. A person should press just hard enough to make clean contact between the string and the fret for clean notes. I certainly don't have that mastered myself, but it's what I go for. It sure helps intonation out a lot too, especially on a ukulele.
I guess the exception to that would be if a person actually wants to bend a note sharp for some reason, so they press harder.....but usually people that want to do that get a scalloped fretboard....or bend the normal way.

I know walnut is plenty hard enough to hold frets as it has been used on various instruments. I doubt anyone could truly tell a tone difference in a walnut fretboard vs. rosewood or ebony mated to a mahogany neck...or maple. I'm sure somebody out there claims they can though. :p
 
I would think more and more builders might move to composites, such as the Richlite that Gibson uses - and Enya for that matter - on their fretboards. My main electric right now is a 2002 Gibson CS-356, with a beautiful ebony fretboard. But the new 2018 version of the CS-356 (for $4400!) comes with a Richlite fretboard, and I would be very hard pressed to tell them apart.
 
Lots of "rosewood" varieties around, some entirely unrelated to Brazilian rosewood, which most consider the real thing. Brazilian is on the most restrictive CITES list. Cocobolo is probably the closest real thing that doesn't seem to be listed by CITES but is still hard to find and pricey. The harder varieties of maple really are quite good -- hard, dense, easy to finish and holds frets well.

Hello Robert,

Sounds like you're doing a very thorough prototype process. Good luck.

I agree that walnut is too soft for a fretboard. There are plenty of (well played) vintage Ukuleles around with deep "pozos" (puddles) in the fretboards. I'd definitely go harder than walnut.

But building in Central America keeps us on our toes when it comes to tropical American hardwoods. Cocobolo is a dalbergia and as of the first of this year all are now restricted. Not in Appendix I like Brazilian, but any listing is problematic, apart from being an indication you should look elsewhere just as a matter of good conservation. But no worries, there are tons of other beautiful woods out there, as hard or harder than rosewood, in any color or figure you might need.
 
I'm wondering why Walnut as a replacement for Rosewood rather than some other wood, beside some perceived durability perhaps it's a mix of economics, availability and appearance but I just don't know. I don't see walnut used to make other things but perhaps I just don't notice, I'd though of it as expensive and rare already.

I can't see much of a percentage of players wearing a fretboard down and hope that I can manage to do so before 'I pop my clogs' - lots of playing for me, and after that it's someone else's small concern. For abrasion resistance might it be possible to 'lacquer' or otherwise surface 'treat' a fretboard and for worse wear, should it get that bad, build in such a way - I believe it's a feature of Flukes - as to facilitate fretboard replacement/renewal ?

I'm not sure how applicable the Janka test is to being indicative of the durability of fretboards but results I see on the web indicate a lot of hard woods and variation within species https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janka_hardness_test . Heck I've come across scrap wood, fallen trees and other stuff, that's so hard that I wouldn't want to have to make anything from it. I believe that some woods, Oak and Apple come to mind, have to be worked before they've seasoned much because they grow much harder as they age.

As a further 'aside' Bruko make Ukes with maple necks and integral fretboards, as far as I know there isn't a durability issue there. I think that the light colour wouldn't give enough visual contrast with white or clear strings for me - worth Browns are a poupular alternative - but if Wilfried Welti is happy to play a Bruko with a Maple fretboard then then the rest of us could rightly question our own reservations.
 
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The problem with maple:

That's rather a mess, never seen anything like that before. Abusive use? Wonder how and if it will clean up. My comment on Maple was only a 'aside' and I wouldn't want the OP to feel that I was diverting his thread.
 
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The problem with maple:

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Interesting, in that I bought a Maple fretboard for my cigar box uke. I doubt that it will ever get enough use to make any difference. But is that example the norm, or is it the exception? It appears to me that fretboard has seen a lot of playing. I mean, a lot of playing. Would your average ukulele player ever even get close to playing their ukulele enough to wear it down like that?
 
The worn maple necks on Fender guitars were mainly due to the thin nitrocellulous finish they used back in the 50s. Believe it or not, Fender sells new guitars, with faux worn fingerboards like that, calling them "Relics", and folks pay big bucks for them, as it looks like they have a cool old vintage guitar. Finishes have come a long way since then (poly, UV, etc), and they won't get worn like that. Not sure what Bruko uses on their maple board necks, but bet it is very durable, and would never look like that guitar neck.
 
I have some with no fretboards, just Maple necks, such as my Brueko and Zither Heavens. They look like new.

Others look like I eat greasy potato chips and then play, such as the Morado fretboard on the OXK.
 
That's rather a mess, never seen anything like that before. Abusive use? Wonder how and if it will clean up. My comment on Maple was only a 'aside' and I wouldn't want the OP to feel that I was diverting his thread.

It's from playing.. so I'm not sure Id call it abusive. They just get like that after a while.
The thing is.. any kind of finish/seal is going to wear.
Once the wood fibers are exposed, it will absorb crud.

Even on my rosewood, there's crud. I clean it with lemon oil each time I change the strings, and the cloth comes away with grunge.
You just tend to not see it so much because the grunge is similarly colored to the wood.

But with maple... it's not the same color as the wood.

As far as is that uncommon.. I don't think it really is. I've seen lots of fender necks like that.
 
To be fair.. electric guitar strings are all metal, which is going to be more abrasive than plastic.

But... I've become partial to low G with wound 3rd and 4th, so its a concern even on a uke.
 
Even ebony fret boards can wear with enough play. Here's a Martin tenor (60's?).
I got it like this. I don't feel it at all when playing, and although I would prefer the wear not to be there, it is a sign that the uke has been played a lot - probably because it sounds so sweet and someone couldn't put it down.
I can't keep my hands off it either!

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