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View Full Version : On having an opinion - designing for disappointment revisited



Pete Howlett
10-05-2017, 10:40 PM
In the anticipation that you may have missed my provocative essay I am starting a new thread that I hope will encourage free discourse.

Forums are great places to debate, write essays, express opinion and exchange knowledge. I get masses of this here from all quarters - so thanks one and all for continuing to educate me.

They are also places where misery and spite hide behind the clipped narrative of the internet.

As a plea, can we continue to keep this place free from the latter. Thankfully, all but gone are the, "I want your help but only if you ratify my already made decisions" type postings and the topics that could be archived under a Beginner Luthier FAQ section are easily searchable. We are in rude good health!

I don't have much but what I do have and love in others, is strong opinion. Allow me that please as I allow it for you..

Responses below please while I go and put on my flame retardant suit :)

ukantor
10-05-2017, 11:05 PM
I am happy to read your opinions, Pete. I'm not short of salt, should a pinch be needed!:rolleyes:

Kevs-the-name
10-06-2017, 12:20 AM
FORUM:

*A meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged (*Oxford Dictionaries)

**A forum is a place, situation, or group in which people exchange ideas and discuss issues (**Collins English Dictionary)

Nothing states that ANYBODY'S view, opinion or issue is right (or wrong) It is for discussion

Croaky Keith
10-06-2017, 01:01 AM
Ha, ha, starting a new thread about the same thing won't change anyones opinions. :biglaugh::cheers:

stevepetergal
10-06-2017, 03:51 AM
I was going to agree with you, but you've changed my opinion. SCOUNDREL!!

Booli
10-06-2017, 04:19 AM
Remember, we seldom regret the things we don't say, but often regret the things we do say.

Graham Greenbag
10-06-2017, 04:59 AM
Remember, we seldom regret the things we don't say, but often regret the things we do say.

I certainly regret both at times. However it’s important to speak out, as best we can and in the right way, to protect freedom of thought and expression. We might not agree with others but engaging them in sensible discussion is one way for all to learn and when we fear learning then what sad things we must have become. It seems to me that Pete was unfairly criticised, when we stand by and let that happen we accept a decline in the courteous way people here treat each other and I think that that would be a very backward step.

sequoia
10-06-2017, 07:13 PM
Attack the idea, not the person. A good thing to keep in mind. To attack the person is called an "ad hominum" attack. The new idea threatens you and thus your view of reality is threatened and you transfer your fear and insecurity towards the person and not the idea. This is a very human thing. It is wrong.

If I may be allowed I will attack myself in an ad hominum attack example: I once believed that the back and side wood made little or no difference to how an instrument sounded. The top was everything.... You idiot! How could you be so stupid as to not see that the back and side make such a difference. What are you? A F~~~ moron??? Yup. It does make a difference and a pretty big difference I have learned.

I really believe that the concept of aloha should rule this forum as in your idea might be terrible but we love you anyhow. That is how we learn. There should be no fear of being wrong because that is how we eventually get it right. Right?

Booli
10-06-2017, 08:57 PM
Attack the idea, not the person. A good thing to keep in mind. To attack the person is called an "ad hominum" attack. The new idea threatens you and thus your view of reality is threatened and you transfer your fear and insecurity towards the person and not the idea. This is a very human thing. It is wrong.

If I may be allowed I will attack myself in an ad hominum attack example: I once believed that the back and side wood made little or no difference to how an instrument sounded. The top was everything.... You idiot! How could you be so stupid as to not see that the back and side make such a difference. What are you? A F~~~ moron??? Yup. It does make a difference and a pretty big difference I have learned.

I really believe that the concept of aloha should rule this forum as in your idea might be terrible but we love you anyhow. That is how we learn. There should be no fear of being wrong because that is how we eventually get it right. Right?

:agree:

...but sadly, over the past few months, it seems that many folks either never acquired, or have mostly lost their Aloha here on UU.

Timbuck
10-07-2017, 11:01 AM
:agree:

...but sadly, over the past few months, it seems that many folks either never acquired, or have mostly lost their Aloha here on UU.Ive lost my Aloha a few years back ..tried Viagra...Still no dice :o

DPO
10-07-2017, 11:13 AM
Ive lost my Aloha a few years back ..tried Viagra...Still no dice :o

Double the dose ken, but swallow them quickly lest you get a stiff neck!

kkimura
10-07-2017, 04:54 PM
Like most things aloha can be lost. Unlike most things aloha is easy to find and regain if you try

Pete Howlett
10-07-2017, 08:49 PM
Aloha, to those who believe in it, is real... I think it is a great 'ideal/idea'. I've been to Hawaii but wasn't epsecially tuned into it - too much mainland noise in my head. Also, IMHO - you don't see this warning too often thee days do we so I'll repeat in in long hand - IN MY HUMBLE (not meant to be so - this is ironic) OPINION, posters who do not use their real name but use a pseudonym don't always get my attention. I think the internet has moved on from anonymity to full disclosure. Names accompanied by ideas often seem to be to be projecting an idea/ideal that we want others to believe. On the other hand, it's cute when we use the names others invented for us - mine were~:
squirt
half-pint
oi!
you!
pee-wee
the list goes on for this vertically challenged giant of a dwarf...

kkimura
10-08-2017, 03:20 AM
Aloha, to those who believe in it, is real... I think it is a great 'ideal/idea'. I've been to Hawaii but wasn't epsecially tuned into it - too much mainland noise in my head. Also, IMHO - you don't see this warning too often thee days do we so I'll repeat in in long hand - IN MY HUMBLE (not meant to be so - this is ironic) OPINION, posters who do not use their real name but use a pseudonym don't always get my attention. I think the internet has moved on from anonymity to full disclosure. Names accompanied by ideas often seem to be to be projecting an idea/ideal that we want others to believe. On the other hand, it's cute when we use the names others invented for us - mine were~:
squirt
half-pint
oi!
you!
pee-wee
the list goes on for this vertically challenged giant of a dwarf...

A famous islander once wrote, "what's in a name?". (Atlantis islander that is) So many of us have common names like Smith, Mohammad and Kimura that it's hard to know who you're talking to but after a while, most can tell if they want to continue the conversation. Last time I looked there were three plus pages of Kimuras in the Honolulu phone book.

Hang in there Pete!

Rllink
10-16-2017, 07:21 AM
Ha, ha, starting a new thread about the same thing won't change anyones opinions. :biglaugh::cheers:I was thinking the same thing. But I like drama, so look forward to tuning in.


:agree:

...but sadly, over the past few months, it seems that many folks either never acquired, or have mostly lost their Aloha here on UU.Booli my friend, I'm not even sure what exactly Aloha is, but I'm thinking that the more rum I drink, the more Aloha I get. :D


Anyway, on the topic of opinion, there is a difference between having an opinion and being opinionated.

Croaky Keith
10-16-2017, 09:04 AM
Aloha
Aloha is the Hawaiian word for love, affection, peace, compassion and mercy, that is commonly used as a simple greeting.

People generally mean the latter, when used on here. :)

Pete Howlett
10-16-2017, 09:55 AM
Bit of bear poking going on here I think :)

robedney
10-16-2017, 10:28 AM
:agree:

...but sadly, over the past few months, it seems that many folks either never acquired, or have mostly lost their Aloha here on UU.

I don't know. Given the tension of the times we live in just now this place seems like a nice respite. When I engage in a thread here I sort of feel like a bunch of ukulele folk have come for a shop visit and we're all sitting around discussing ukulele things. The uke represents a place where we come together -- and that's a lovely thing. Aloha is a greeting, but to me it means greeting graciously and with love of life -- both yours and mine.

Booli
10-16-2017, 10:42 AM
...Booli my friend, I'm not even sure what exactly Aloha is, but I'm thinking that the more rum I drink, the more Aloha I get. :D...

My brother, whatever works for you to take away the pain and stress is good medicine.


People generally mean the latter, when used on here. :)

IMHO, for ALOHA, the perception and definition in use or in application is possibly more granular and cultural and geo-centric and demo-graphically understood based upon both/and context or local social norms, and possibly extends beyond this UU forum.

Some folks dont believe in it, some folks dont think of it at all, and for other folks still, Aloha is a part of every day life in various forms. Remember, nobody has to be wrong, in order for everyone to be correct in their use or understanding of Aloha.

Even folks that care nothing for Aloha, are also fully justified if it has no place in their life as such, and may often use other words to relate similar concepts or constructs based upon their own environment and/or social circumstances.

There is no 'wrong answer', and that is why Aloha is recursively defined and exists despite the lack of belief or practice of it.

It's like the air you breathe or daylight, it's 'there' anyway. :) In fact, even for folks that have an option different from mine, this is normal and perfectly fine and I can still consider them a friend.

There is no mandate that requires all of us to attend the same 'school of thought' in order to have a meaningful conversation. :)

If we did, then there would be nothing to talk about other than the mindless repeating of mantras and dogma, and this forum would be really boring.

lfoo6952
10-16-2017, 11:39 AM
Pete:

I've been following your post since I became a member of UU. I find your posts to be informative and sometimes thought-provoking, but your opinions are never written in an insidious or hurtful manner. I believe you've always had the best of intentions. I find it puzzling how some have misinterpreted your postings and have tried to shout you down.

Keep on keeping on, my brother.

Aloha.

Pete Howlett
10-16-2017, 12:17 PM
Aloha? From my travels there I can honestly say you have to be Hawaiian to fully understand it. I'm not, I don't, so I don't pretend to and be fake by signing off with it.

What I like about this forum is we can have an adult conversation and agree to disagree. On the occassion when someone takes a swipe I think they soon realise their mistake. Heck, I've made plenty and immediately apologized.

As for people taking a pop at me - "Beware the green eyed monster. It doth mock the meat it feeds on" (Othello) would best describe it... This profession is not a competition. Sadly, there are some who think it is. I'd like them to know I am not in their race or anybody elses. In fact, I'm not in the game at all :)

sequoia
10-16-2017, 08:25 PM
Aloha is universal. That is the beauty of the concept. Think about it.