Booli was right. Intonation frustration relief...

strat4me

strat4me

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So my wife wants different stings on her little green soprano Outdoor Uke. She mostly plays fingerstyle. Strumming covers up a lot of intonation issues but melodies bring out the worst offenders. On to strings:

1. Aquillas New Nylguts: After waiting almost two weeks for them to stretch-out naturally with her playing daily, I gave in and gently stretched them as I have on my many guitars for many years. C and E strings 4-5 cents off in 1st and 2nd fret! WHAT!!!???

2. Martin 600 Fluoros: Barely used off a uke we bought from another UU player and ALSO 4-5 cents off on same strings. WHAT!!!???

Decided I would talk to Outdoor folks on Monday. Don't want to change nut slot orientation to solve because will revoke warranty. Have done this on other guitars without any problems but here...

On a whim decided to give it one more try.

3. Oasis Warms: Installed brand new ones with NO STRETCHING whatsoever. Problem solved. WHAT!!!???

Booli was right! DON'T STRETCH THEM. While I see no problems doing this with any of my Martin, Larrivee, Furch, etc. steel stringed guitars, it seemingly DOES make a big difference with nylon and flourocarbon strings.

Lesson learned. Outdoor Uke sounds beautiful now.

Mark and Dee Dee

P.S. Booli was right.
 
Oh I don't know. Certainly not to stretch strings like with guitar steel strings, but I think to tune strings a half tone up. It will compensate on nylons and nylguts the tuner windings some and make faster adjustment that way.
Fluorocarbons I have not yet to try, so no opinion to them.
 
Pulling on the strings may cause the strings to stretch unevenly or worse damage the Uke.
I use flourocarbons almost exclusively. When I put a new set on I tune the uke up a full step and let them settle back to where they are supposed to be.
 
I can be patient. I don't stretch my strings. I don't tune above pitch. I have a week or so when I tune a lot. Everything settles down and intonation remains good.
 
I'm glad I read this, and that Booli had chimed in.
My uke was "tuned" recently by a very good luthier. New strings were added. Its intonation was still off, but barely.
Now, after 2.5 months of playing, the intonation is lousy again, after fret 5.
I have changed one thing, I went from a very nice strobe tuner to a cheapie one....
I do tend to be pretty hard on strings, but I didn't stretch these like I usually do.....maybe the luthier did???
Time for a new set already?
 
I never stretch my strings, and I gave up trying to measure intonation since I find it depressibg how inconsequent results I get.
But how are strings stretched, if you do that?
If you just stretch them by hand, wont the tension be far less that when you tune them?
Dont I risk stretching them more while tigthening a knot than I would if I tried to stretch them?
 
strat4me said:
Booli was right! DON'T STRETCH THEM. While I see no problems doing this with any of my Martin, Larrivee, Furch, etc. steel stringed guitars, it seemingly DOES make a big difference with nylon and flourocarbon strings.

Lesson learned. Outdoor Uke sounds beautiful now.

Mark and Dee Dee

P.S. Booli was right.
Click to expand...

I’m assuming that you're referring to Booli’s comments here: http://forum.ukuleleunderground.com...ila-carbonblack-strings&p=1936545#post1936545. Well them or something similar from him.

“ ..... I let them stretch by playing and constantly retuning, and not by pulling on the strings, which for me always causes intonation problems.

Some folks love to do that, but it is not the method I use. I prefer to 'let it happen' from string vibration, which takes anywhere from 8-12 hrs of actual PLAYING time and can be done in about 10-14 days, which is fine by me.

Multiply this effort across a set each of soprano, concert and tenor strings, on three different ukuleles, one of each scale lengths, all restrung at the same time, with the new Aquila CarbonBlack strings, and it's lots of playing and retuning, all of it therapy for me which I do not mind in the least, and it forces me to practice more any way.

To me, pulling on the strings is akin to yelling at the yeast in your freshly mixed bread dough, demanding the bread to rise FASTER, and it does so begrudgingly and with resentment. Not a nice start to a relationship.

Patience is a virtue. ”

One more vote for Booli from here.

I have found ‘waiting’ for strings to settle a bit of a frustration but am learning to just accept the delay - it allows a greater certainty of positive results and when you change strings you’re looking for positive results.
 
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I've found string stretching goes uneven or worse if done improperly. What I do is evenly bend string like a note 3 times up and 3 times down every string. Repeat as many times needed, and next day.
 
strat4me said:
...P.S. Booli was right.
Click to expand...

Aloha fellow UU brothers and sisters...

I am flattered and humbled that folks were actually paying attention to something I posted, and that it is working for you.

I am pleased that I am able to pay-forward my knowledge and experience to help others here, and that this information is appreciated and useful for you, since often it seems like I am typing into the abyss...for future historians to find these cryptic writings...

It's not about me, but instead it's about you and your own journey to discover the best way to get joy from your music with ukulele, so my ohana, go forth and PLAY! :)

Mahalo to all,

Booli :music:
 
Booli said:
Aloha fellow UU brothers and sisters...

I am flattered and humbled that folks were actually paying attention to something I posted, and that it is working for you.

I am pleased that I am able to pay-forward my knowledge and experience to help others here, and that this information is appreciated and useful for you, since often it seems like I am typing into the abyss...for future historians to find these cryptic writings...

It's not about me, but instead it's about you and your own journey to discover the best way to get joy from your music with ukulele, so my ohana, go forth and PLAY! :)

Mahalo to all,

Booli :music:
Click to expand...

Mahalo, Booli, and thank you! :D
 
Well...

Different brands of strings exert different amounts of tension/pull on your uke, due to differences in density, materials and diameter. That, alone, can cause differences in intonation.

The only way to prove that stretching is the culprit is to try the same brand of strings - on the same uke - both with and without stretching them - and measure the intonation in both cases.

Just saying. :)
 
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bearbike137 said:
...The only way to prove that stretching is the culprit is to try the same brand of strings - on the same uke - both with and without stretching them - and measure the intonation in both cases.

Just saying. :)
Click to expand...

After having tested over 100 different sets of ukulele strings over the past 4 yrs, I can confidently say, yes 'been there, done that' (testing identical sets with pulling to stretch and NOT pulling to stretch, on the same instrument) and yes it makes a detrimental difference and can cause 'dead spots', uneven wear, thinning areas on the string, and intonation to be fuster-clucked even from when the strings are brand new and first installed.

One can be a maverick at their own risk and the results are likely to be less than optimal.

But hey, what do I know? I am nobody.

To each his own. :)
 
I certainly agree of not stretching the string by pulling it with fingers at the middle. This is way too aggressive to strings and causes the damage that has been mentioned.

But it is to me a bit too slow and wary approach, especially with non wound strings, to just tune them to a standard pitch. And then to always detune again when the pitch drops. Playing helps fasten the process of getting the strings hold stable pitch, because each time the string vibrates and when it is plucked with a finger, also the winded parts of the string get some dynamic pull.

By far the fastest approach is after playing to tune the strings somewhat higher, like maybe a semitone. Until the standard G, C, E and A or whatever string pitches no more drop down. Strings don't have memory, but the way windings work it is seemable, Compensating the significant initial creeping that way. This approach is very efficient and takes just a few days.
 
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Booli said:
After having tested over 100 different sets of ukulele strings over the past 4 yrs, I can confidently say, yes 'been there, done that' (testing identical sets with pulling to stretch and NOT pulling to stretch, on the same instrument) and yes it makes a detrimental difference and can cause 'dead spots', uneven wear, thinning areas on the string, and intonation to be fuster-clucked even from when the strings are brand new and first installed.

One can be a maverick at their own risk and the results are likely to be less than optimal.

But hey, what do I know? I am nobody.

To each his own. :)
Click to expand...

Booli -I am not at all disputing your advice. It is just that in the OP's case - the Oasis Warms might have been exactly the right strings for the OP's uke, versus the Aquilas and Martins that he first tried. It may or may not have had anything to do with stretching (or not stretching) the strings IN THIS CASE.

Every time I buy a ukulele, I spend a good deal of time trying different sets of strings - even mixing sets of strings - until I find a combination that works best both in terms of tone and intonation. I am often stunned by the difference in a string's intonation by changing the brand of string, even when the strings are both fluorocarbon of nearly the same diameter. Every single bit of change in tension can change intonation, due to the effect that the tension has on the neck and top.
 
bearbike137 said:
Booli -I am not at all disputing your advice. It is just that in the OP's case - the Oasis Warms might have been exactly the right strings for the OP's uke, versus the Aquilas and Martins that he first tried. It may or may not have had anything to do with stretching (or not stretching) the strings IN THIS CASE.

Every time I buy a ukulele, I spend a good deal of time trying different sets of strings - even mixing sets of strings - until I find a combination that works best both in terms of tone and intonation. I am often stunned by the difference in a string's intonation by changing the brand of string, even when the strings are both fluorocarbon of nearly the same diameter. Every single bit of change in tension can change intonation, due to the effect that the tension has on the neck and top.
Click to expand...

Ok.

No Worries. :)
 
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