Uke Nuts, why was/is wood used?

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Graham Greenbag

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I’m in the habit of replacing plastic nuts with bone ones and it’s always been (or should that be seemed) a good move until the last time. With the bone nut the open strings sounded louder and had a longer sustain than the fretted ones and that made the played chords sound ‘wrong’. The plastic nut was reinstated, balance returned and all was well again, or as good as it’s going to be.

That episode set me thinking about Uke nut materials and I recalled that wood was used originally and still is on the Bruko’s. Why was/is wood used and are particular types of wood better to use than others?
 
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wood was used cuz it was cheap- every workshop has 1001 scraps of ebony that could be used as nuts. Violins and lutes all use ebony.
 
I've never quite understood why a zero fret isn't used on more instruments. Perfect balance tonally and great action.
 
I'll second MikeyB2's question. All strings vibrating off a metal fret should be more balanced.

My wife has a 1921 Martin OO-18 with an ebony nut.
 
mikeyb2 said:
I've never quite understood why a zero fret isn't used on more instruments. Perfect balance tonally and great action.
Click to expand...

A zero nut is what some factories (used to/still) do to minimize labor costs= hence it is associated as such.
This isn't to say that great instruments don't have a zero fret (some of the worlds best guitars have them), it's just historically associated with factories trying to save 30 mins labour.
 
Beau Hannam Ukuleles said:
wood was used cuz it was cheap- every workshop has 1001 scraps of ebony that could be used as nuts. Violins and lutes all use ebony.
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Thank you for the information Beau.

My thanks too to everyone else who has contributed to the thread so far. My belief now is that Ebony was used because it was both there in the workshop and hard enough to do the job, perhaps it was considered decorative or distinctive too. I believe that Bruko use(d) Rosewood for their nuts on their No 5 and 6 models, perhaps for similar reasons to above.

I used to think that zero frets were an ideal solution to problems with nuts, but I’m no longer sure about that being so. IMHO both options have their merits but there will be many good reasons why most Ukes come fitted with nuts.

I’m convinced that bone is the best material for saddles (well better than any man made material that I’ve tried) but I wonder how hard a material needs to be to make a good nut? What other (nut) woods or materials work well?
 
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When i use black horn for nuts and black Tusq Xl for saddles, it always looks great.

Bone and Tusq (my standard) are both excellent materials for both nuts and saddles.

You might be interested in this video
 
I made a brass nut once for an acoustic guitar. Didnt change the sound in the least, but it looked cool.
Tried a brass saddle on the same guitar and you could cut glass with the sound :)
 
I've used Ebony and Lignum - actually African Lignum which isn't quite the same as the more famous Lignum vitae. It's very hard and dense and is perfectly fine for nylon strung instruments. It's up there with some of the hardest woods known to man. I intend to use it on a very small 6 string guitar that I'm making - a little larger than a guitalele but not much. I've done a side by side comparison with a bone saddle (two mini saddles side by side, two strings at same pitch). I couldn't hear a difference.
This (big) guitar has a nut and saddle using the Africal lignum, otherwise known as knobthorn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s843AhAVTDE
 
ubulele said:
I have a custom uke with a Corian nut. Not sure what impact it has on the tone, but I don't think I have to worry about wear.
Click to expand...

I've never used corian but i hear it's a good material for nuts (and maybe saddles?)- Chuck Moore used to use it a bit but not anymore...or he just doesn't mention it anymore.
 
Michael N. said:
I've used Ebony and Lignum - actually African Lignum which isn't quite the same as the more famous Lignum vitae. It's very hard and dense and is perfectly fine for nylon strung instruments. It's up there with some of the hardest woods known to man. I intend to use it on a very small 6 string guitar that I'm making - a little larger than a guitalele but not much. I've done a side by side comparison with a bone saddle (two mini saddles side by side, two strings at same pitch). I couldn't hear a difference.
This (big) guitar has a nut and saddle using the Africal lignum, otherwise known as knobthorn.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s843AhAVTDE
Click to expand...

I find that an interesting insight on material and, IMHO, the instrument is beautiful both to behold and to listen to.

At some point, as an experiment and for interest, I think that I might try making a nut out of some ‘mahogany’ type hard wood that I have knocking about in my store/workshop. It will be a bit small and fiddly to make and I only use hand saws and planes too which will make it more difficult. I don’t do enough wood work to warrant the cost of power tools and the space required plus using them feels like cheating somehow; it’s also surprising what you can do with some sharp hand tools, careful use and a bit of effort.
 
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Dansimpson said:
I made a brass nut once for an acoustic guitar. Didnt change the sound in the least, but it looked cool.
Tried a brass saddle on the same guitar and you could cut glass with the sound :)
Click to expand...

The other day I used a cheap Chinese plastic nut as a place holder to set the action before I made a proper bone nut for a new uke. Well guess what, I forgot to change it out until much later. Those plastic nuts look pretty good. I replaced it with a bone nut and guess what? It sounded exactly the same! As I said before, the nut is highly overrated in influencing sound....Ancient, fossilized mammoth tusk nuts anyone? Low, low prices. Act now! Before it is too late!
 
Graham Greenbag said:
I find that an interesting insight on material and, IMHO, the instrument is beautiful both to behold and to listen to.

At some point, as an experiment and for interest, I think that I might try making a nut out of some ‘mahogany’ type hard wood that I have knocking about in my store/workshop. It will be a bit small and fiddly to make and I only use hand saws and planes too which will make it more difficult. I don’t do enough wood work to warrant the cost of power tools and the space required plus using them feels like cheating somehow; it’s also surprising what you can do with some sharp hand tools, careful use and a bit of effort.
Click to expand...

Don't worry, that's how they did it for 400 years. I still use hand tools for top nuts and saddles. Your 'mahogany type' will probably be OK although I suspect it will compress a bit and will wear faster. Better still will be any of ebony, rosewood, oak or beech.
 
Michael N. said:
Don't worry, that's how they did it for 400 years. I still use hand tools for top nuts and saddles. Your 'mahogany type' will probably be OK although I suspect it will compress a bit and will wear faster. Better still will be any of ebony, rosewood, oak or beech.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that and the confidence boost :) . Now all I need to do is research wood type recognition.

Once I start looking through the store I’m sure to come across some other real hard stuff too, stuff that’s been there ‘seasoning’ for many years - being a tight northerner I throw nothing away.
 
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One other reason I can think of for not using a zero fret has to do with compensation. Just as the saddle can be compensated for more accurate intonation so can the nut. For those using a template system for slotting their frets, the nut slot that would be for a zero fret is just about wide enough to move the nut forward for in-the-ballpark nut compensation and more can be had somewhat easily. I suppose you could move the nut slot forward by hand that same .012" and get the same result. Easy on a CNC machine I guess. Some instrument makers such as Greg Byers compensate the nut individually for each string. That would be difficult with a zero fret.

Those getting a different sound from a different material could be due to the way the nut is slotted. Good nut slotting technique can affect the sound quite a bit.

I agree with Dansimpson that the saddle material will make more of a difference in tone than the nut material.
 
Compensating nuts ?...Bone nuts ? Ebony nuts ? Zero frets ? only applies with open strings Am7...all out of the game as soon you fret a note.
 
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Timbuck said:
Compensating nuts ?...Bone nuts ? Ebony nuts ? Zero frets ? only applies with open strings Am7...all out of the game as soon you fret a note.
Click to expand...

I can’t dispute that - though others might - and thanks for joining in the discussion. When fingerpicking I guess that the only vibration paths for a fretted string are through the fret board and the saddle, but when playing chords then a lot of the time some strings are open so then nut material would be a factor to consider (well that’s my amateur experience as noted in the original post). By way of open string chord examples the A and the F chords fret two stings and the C chord frets just one, but you know that already and I don’t want to seem ungrateful for your comment (‘cause I’m actually very pleased that you decided to comment at all :) ).
 
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Graham Greenbag said:
I can’t dispute that - though others might - and thanks for joining in the discussion. When fingerpicking I guess that the only vibration paths for a fretted string are through the fret board and the saddle, but when playing chords then a lot of the time some strings are open so then nut material would be a factor to consider (well that’s my amateur experience as noted in the original post). By way of open string chord examples the A and the F chords fret two stings and the C chord frets just one, but you know that already and I don’t want to seem ungrateful for your comment (‘cause I’m actually very pleased that you decided to comment at all :) ).
Click to expand...
Nowadays I use ebony all the time with no problems...in the past I've tried alsorts of materials on nuts and saddles including brass and aluminium ...couldnt hear any difference with blind testing..but something that can make a big difference is string choice.
 
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