Scale length - 21.4" big baritone -- which string set?

bellgamin

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The topic title says it all. I have a Pono Baritone UL4N-10. Its scale length is 21.4". For a "standard" baritone, the usual scale length is ~20.125”.

Because of the greater scale length, the string tension on my oversize barry will be a bit higher than on a regular barry, right? I am NOT a fan of higher tension. So I need lighter gauge strings, right?

I would very much appreciate your comments & recommendations relative to strings for my oversize barry.
 
Generally speaking, yes, tension will be a bit higher and you could use lighter gauge strings to compensate. Or you could use a lower tuning to compensate. But also generally speaking, you probably won't notice that much difference.

If you're willing to try Bb tuning, the Southcoast LML-NW strings I have for sale would make a moderate tension Bb or possibly lower tension A tuning, but would be too high at C tuning (for you anyway).

If you want to stick with G tuning, my recommendation is to try classical guitar sets, strings 2-5 until you find one you like. You might start with something like these: https://www.stringsbymail.com/class...arte-polished-865/ej45lp-polished-normal-155/
 
D'addario Pro-Arte have a "light tension" classical guitar set.
If you used the 5th-2nd strings from that set, you would, in effect, have a low tension DGBE set of baritone strings.

*edit* Sorry, this logic applies to normal sized baritones. For a "big" baritone like this one, read my post further down below
 
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First off congratulations on a wonderful new instrument, as you know I had the steel string version, they are both great, it's a Pono!!
If you want lower tension strings you need to go thinner in diameter. Kissing is very knowledgeable but his recommendation will not give you the low tension you want. You can take the set he recommended and use the 1st and 2nd strings on those positions, they are thinner then the second and third string. Then use the fourth and fifth string on positions 3 and 4 of your instrument.

If You wanna make it easy just use the Martin M630 baritone set. The two florocarbon trebles are the thinnest of any set and I like the tone a lot. Your longer the normal scale length will increase tension so going smaller diameter will lessen tension.
 
Argh had a whole long post, but I posted some links to D'addario's website that shows the string gauges, and UU's auto-spam-blocking mechanism treated me like a spammer and now my post is gone.


Long story short, upon reading DownUpDave's post and reviewing bellgamin's original post, I forgot to factor in that this Pono UL4N-10 model has a scale length nearly as long as my 3/4 Size classical guitar (measured just now to be between 22-23"). On my classical guitar, I actually just use Normal tension classical guitar strings, as I prefer a light gauge.

How about just using 4th to 1st strings on it, treating it like a small classical guitar?
If Light and Normal sets are too loose, you could even consider using Hard tension sets.

Stringing up an Hard or Extra tension classical guitar set's 4th-1st exactly how you would on classical guitar (DGBE) would probably translate to Light to Normal tension on this particular baritone ukulele. In theory anyway ;)
 
My Jumbo Baritone is just finishing up. It has a tenor guitar sized body with a 22.8" scale 1 3/8ths wide neck. Basically a nylon strung tenor guitar. I was concerned about string tension also so brought him a sets of the South Coast LHL-WB, HL-WB and a set T-Infeld CF35, CF30 and Savarez Alliance treble reds to choose from. I wanted a higher tension; he ended up using the HL-WB. I imagine the Ti-Infeld would have a lighter tension as they are a tad thinner than the Southcoast.

Once I've used up the few sets I have left of SouthCoast; I'll be using the Ti-Infelds. I have them on my 20" CHennel baritone and they work very well.
 
Thanks to all for the excellent advice. I'm embarassed to say that I forgot to mention -- I always use A tuning for my baritones, not G tuning. Will that make a difference in your suggestions?

@ DownUpDave -- your comments in a post elsewhere are the reason I drove up to North Shore to visit HMS in search of this big baritone. They had one so I tried it, loved it, & bought it -- at a Black Friday special price. Shazam!
 
A tuning will make the strings tension higher over a G tuning. If you don't care the 3&4 are unwound, I'd go for Jim's suggestion of buying a set of his LHL-NW. Other wise would go for the T-Infelds due to there are only so many sets left of Southcoast.

Those UL4's are nice. Because of Dave and Rakelel, I bought the steels strunf version. That led me to missing the bottom two steel strings of a guitar. Found a local luthier who specialized in ergonomic parlor guitars. That led me to realizing I wanted a bigger sound from my baritone ukes. Which leads me to Kaona; the new jumbo bariton that should be ready later on today. Just needs to shape the pickguard and file a few sharp frets I found last week.

You're gonna love that UL4N Bellinggame.
 
A tuning does change things. You're just gonna have to try a few sets. Most likely candidates would be light tension classical with strings 2-5, hard tension classical with strings 1-4, or my LML-NWs (only 2 left! Don't wait! ;-) )
 
Wow -- much thanks to everyone for being patient with my gross inexperience as to string technicalities. Hopefully, I now know enough to ask a more appropriate question.

Since I have always been a fan of D'Addario Pro-Arte, I am going to base my question on their classical guitar strings -- unless someone has reasons not to do so.

Looking at D'Addario's Nylon Classical Guitar Strings, here are their gauges for light, normal, & hard tensions:

Light String Gauges: Trebles .0275, .0317, .0397 Basses .028, .033, .042
Normal String Gauges: Trebles .0280, .0322, .0403, Basses .029, .35, .043
Hard String Gauges: Trebles .0285, .0327, .0410 Basses .030, .036, .044

QUESTION: Without being too "loose", which strings from which tension set might be good for "A" tuning my oversize barry?
 
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Got it, Jim. Just wanted to be sure. So I shall order the light & the hard sets. Per your guidelines, I would have 2 options as follows:

light 2-5=>0317, 0397 Bass 028, 033
Hard 1-4=> 0285, 0327,0410 Bass 030


It's interesting that the light set would have somewhat heavier strings, with both 3 & 4 being wound. I will probably try the light combo first. Amazon gave me a "guaranteed delivery date" of Nov 30, which happens to be the anniversary of my 88th year of pilgrimage on this lovely planet.
 
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A tuning does change things. You're just gonna have to try a few sets. Most likely candidates would be light tension classical with strings 2-5, hard tension classical with strings 1-4, or my LML-NWs (only 2 left! Don't wait! ;-) )

100% agree!
 
Generally speaking, yes, tension will be a bit higher and you could use lighter gauge strings to compensate. Or you could use a lower tuning to compensate. But also generally speaking, you probably won't notice that much difference.

If you're willing to try Bb tuning, the Southcoast LML-NW strings I have for sale would make a moderate tension Bb or possibly lower tension A tuning, but would be too high at C tuning (for you anyway).

If you want to stick with G tuning, my recommendation is to try classical guitar sets, strings 2-5 until you find one you like. You might start with something like these: https://www.stringsbymail.com/class...arte-polished-865/ej45lp-polished-normal-155/

This has always confused me. We mostly use the same tuning for soprano, concert and tenor, but as the scale length increases, the string gauges generally get larger not smaller. Can anyone explain this?
 
This has always confused me. We mostly use the same tuning for soprano, concert and tenor, but as the scale length increases, the string gauges generally get larger not smaller. Can anyone explain this?

It has the do with the fact that the OP bought a baritone with a longer than standard scale length. This creates higher than usual tension compared to a shorter scaled baritone. By going with smaller/thinner diameter strings the tension under finger will decrease.

Baritone is a different beast in the ukulele world because it is more like a short scale 4 string classical guitar. Tuned DGBE like strings #4-1 on a guitar but with only an approx. 20" scale length compared to an approx 25" scale length of a guitar. This creates issues where the tension with normal baritone string sets can be too low and floppy. Many people go thicker strings to increase tension. But the OP is trying for lower tension because he has a longer=21.4" scale which makes the tension feel high to him. It's all personal preference .
 
It has the do with the fact that the OP bought a baritone with a longer than standard scale length. This creates higher than usual tension compared to a shorter scaled baritone. By going with smaller/thinner diameter strings the tension under finger will decrease.

Baritone is a different beast in the ukulele world because it is more like a short scale 4 string classical guitar. Tuned DGBE like strings #4-1 on a guitar but with only an approx. 20" scale length compared to an approx 25" scale length of a guitar. This creates issues where the tension with normal baritone string sets can be too low and floppy. Many people go thicker strings to increase tension. But the OP is trying for lower tension because he has a longer=21.4" scale which makes the tension feel high to him. It's all personal preference .

Here, for example, are the diameters and tensions for regular Aquila A strings at different scale lengths:

Soprano: .60 mm. and 3.7 kg.
Concert: .62 mm. and 4.1 kg.
Tenor: .67 mm. and 6.7 kg.

It appears to be desirable to have higher tension (and greater diameter) as scale length increases. If the goal were to maintain the same tension with increasing scale length, the A string diameters would actually have to decrease not increase.
 
Thanks to all for the excellent advice. I'm embarassed to say that I forgot to mention -- I always use A tuning for my baritones, not G tuning. Will that make a difference in your suggestions?

@ DownUpDave -- your comments in a post elsewhere are the reason I drove up to North Shore to visit HMS in search of this big baritone. They had one so I tried it, loved it, & bought it -- at a Black Friday special price. Shazam!

I'm wondering, why do you use that tuning?
 
I'm wondering, why do you use that tuning?
On shorter scales, especially 19", it can make a lot of sense. I've done that with the Living Water low G tenor set and it worked very well. On the longer scales, I think there is less call for it - go deep, man!
 
On shorter scales, especially 19", it can make a lot of sense. I've done that with the Living Water low G tenor set and it worked very well. On the longer scales, I think there is less call for it - go deep, man!

In these forums, I have noticed that you often recommend nonstandard tunings. Is this because you think certain instruments sound better in different tunings? From your instrument list I can see that you use a multitude of tunings on various instruments. Is it easy for you to play the same song in the same key on all of your instruments? Personally, it would be hopeless for me to try to do that.

Also, I'm still stuck on the question I had in my previous post regarding scale length, string diameter and tension. Any thoughts?
 
Here, for example, are the diameters and tensions for regular Aquila A strings at different scale lengths:

Soprano: .60 mm. and 3.7 kg.
Concert: .62 mm. and 4.1 kg.
Tenor: .67 mm. and 6.7 kg.

It appears to be desirable to have higher tension (and greater diameter) as scale length increases. If the goal were to maintain the same tension with increasing scale length, the A string diameters would actually have to decrease not increase.

That is correct and that is what I said. You decrease diameter to decrease tension. Remember we are talking about a tuning of DGBE, on a baritone which on a scale length of 20" usually feels low.
 
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