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View Full Version : Size 0 or 00 with slightly wider string spacing?



bellgamin
12-08-2018, 08:02 PM
I am seeking a size 0 or 00 guitar, $700 or less, that has wider-than-average string spacing. Anybody know of one?

BY THE WAY -- when I look at guitar specifications, they never give string spacing, but they do give nut width. Is the size of the nut a good clue as to string spacing?

NOTE: I have 4 steel-string guitars & three of them have 1.75" nut size. I like & play those 3 but, when I flatpick, I would like slightly wider string spacing than they offer -- hence, this posting.

The 1 that does NOT have a 1.75" nut is my Breedlove Stage Concert A/E. Its nut is 1 11/16". The string spacing on that guitar bums me out when I flatpick, so I'm going to give it to 1 of my grandsons who loves playing it. He's a finger-picker.

Jim Hanks
12-09-2018, 04:33 AM
Nut width is a guideline to string spacing but not definitive. You may be able to have a new nut made that would give you a slightly wider string spacing. This could affect things like bends on the outer strings if the string is too close to the edge of the fretboard.

Swamp Yankee
12-09-2018, 05:38 AM
plenty of makers list string spacing at the saddle in their product descriptions but not many of those offer guitars for <$700

bellgamin
12-09-2018, 09:33 PM
plenty of makers list string spacing at the saddle in their product descriptions but not many of those offer guitars for <$700For right around $700, I have bought some used, all-solid wood guitars that were pretty nice. No offense but what's the difference beteen a $700 guitar and (for example) an $1100 guitar -- other than the $400, of course

Swamp Yankee
12-10-2018, 03:15 AM
I wasn't trying to convey the notion that <$700 guitars were inferior... but the makers of those guitars don't list specs like string spacing at the saddle in their product description as often as makers ( like Martin, for example) do.

Thus, researching that spec puts you in a position of relying on the feedback from people that own the cheaper guitars and are willing to get their rulers out to check for you.

DownUpDave
12-10-2018, 07:18 AM
A nut width of 1-3/4" or wider in a small bodied guitar at $700 is few and far between. There is the Blueridge BR 341 it is an 0 size, solid spruce top solid mahogany back and sides with a 1-7/8" nut width.

Google Maury Music they are a great shop and sell it for $760, cheap price for that grade of guitar. It does not state string spacing at the saddle but you can ask them. I own a Blueridge tenor guitar that is excellent in everyway.

bellgamin
12-10-2018, 09:47 AM
Thanks to all. This is an interesting thread.

I am still very curious as to what you folks feel are the main distinguishing advantages of an expensive guitar -- say $5,000 -- versus a $700 (used) Breedlove (for instance) with the same solid wood & same design as a much more expensive guitar (per reading the specifications & eyeballing the exterior which, of course, cannot see everything).
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@ DownUpDave -- I put the Blueridge BR 341 on my short list. Thanks! Have you ever played one of these? If so, how did the wider string spacing feel to you?

DownUpDave
12-10-2018, 10:50 AM
Thanks to all. This is an interesting thread.

I am still very curious as to what you folks feel are the main distinguishing advantages of an expensive guitar -- say $5,000 -- versus a $700 (used) Breedlove (for instance) with the same solid wood & same design as a much more expensive guitar (per reading the specifications & eyeballing the exterior which, of course, cannot see everything).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@ DownUpDave -- I put the Blueridge BR 341 on my short list. Thanks! Have you ever played one of these? If so, how did the wider string spacing feel to you?

Yes I have played that exact same model. Very good guitar with a nice sound but I don't do well with a wide nut, all mine are 1-11/16" or 1-3/4"

Swamp Yankee
12-11-2018, 01:44 AM
Bellgamin, in your opening post you spoke about difficulties flatpicking. To my mind, the string spacing at the saddle would have a bigger impact on your ability to flatpick comfortably while the nut width will have a greater impact on your fretting hand.

As to differences in pricing, they are the result of many factors such as country of manufacture, quality of woods chosen, type of woods chosen, level of craftsmanship, the extent to which the guitar is hand made, the quality of fit and finish, amount of bling (inlays, bindings...etc.)

While there are any number of decent guitars at lower prices, especially on the second hand market, it's still often a matter of getting what you pay for.

bellgamin
12-11-2018, 09:52 AM
... ...While there are any number of decent guitars at lower prices, especially on the second hand market, it's still often a matter of getting what you pay for.More so, my goal is to pay the "right amount" for the quality I am actually getting.

When it comes to pricing of guitars, I often wonder how much the price tag is affected by custormer biases or superstitions or legends with respect to:

Country of origin
Name recognition of the guitar's maker, or the guitar's seller
Pricing snobbery (If it costs $5000, it's got to be better than that $3000 piece of junk hanging next to it, right?)
Wow, this is the same model that's played by Joe Bananas, the world famous rock star!

Swamp Yankee
12-13-2018, 09:23 AM
More so, my goal is to pay the "right amount" for the quality I am actually getting.

When it comes to pricing of guitars, I often wonder how much the price tag is affected by custormer biases or superstitions or legends with respect to:

Country of origin
Name recognition of the guitar's maker, or the guitar's seller
Pricing snobbery (If it costs $5000, it's got to be better than that $3000 piece of junk hanging next to it, right?)
Wow, this is the same model that's played by Joe Bananas, the world famous rock star!


To some extent, perhaps - but I think that customer biases come into play more in the second-hand market than in the new guitar market. What I mean is that a maker prices their wares to be more or less competitive, with some inflation perhaps, for their name recognition. But I have a hunch that where the name recognition really factors in is on the second-hand market in the form of value retention where well-regarded makes (well-regarded for whatever reason including some you've listed) tend to retain value more than the products of their less well-regarded counterparts.

Having said all that - If value for $$ is your motivation, have you looked into Larrivees? They seem to offer some very wonderful guitars that, for whatever reason, seem often to take a bit of a beating on the second-hand market.

bellgamin
12-13-2018, 07:55 PM
...What I mean is that a maker prices their wares to be more or less competitive...I like your comments. They make a lot of sense.

Here's another weird thought that sometimes crosses my mind --- take the following *hypothetical example* -- a Martyn Model XYZ guitar has the maker's suggested retail price of $2,500. He puts several hundred of them on the market nation-wide & overseas. The Model XYZ gets very VERY favorable reviews by all guitar magazines & blogs.

My first wondering is this: were the instruments that were provided to those well-known reviewers 100% typical of the Model XYZ guitars that I might find at my local music store? Or did the Martyn Company cherry-pick the instrument that each reviewer received to try out?

Further, when I read guitar forums, I often read a thread that goes something like this *hypothetical example*: The OP reports how he went to a store that had 5 Model XYZ guitars in stock. He played all 5 of them & bought the one that he said was waaay better than the other 4. The thing is, of the remaining 4, won't 1 of them be better (to the skilled ear of a skilled musician) than the other 3? Sure it will, right? Then, of the remaining 3, 1 of them will be better than the other 2, right?

And so forth, until only 1 Model XYZ remains, and it is the Model XYZ that 4 or more other folks have judged to be the runt of the litter. So in walks Joe Bananas, an average so-so player, who has been playing a $100 plywood banger and has decided that he wants to move up to a real nice guitar. He buys that last Model XYZ -- the runt of the litter -- at the same price as the first 4 players paid. Why? Because -- gee whiz! it's a Martyn XYZ!

So.... what's wrong with this story?

DownUpDave
12-14-2018, 01:15 AM
I like your comments. They make a lot of sense.

Here's another weird thought that sometimes crosses my mind --- take the following *hypothetical example* -- a Martyn Model XYZ guitar has the maker's suggested retail price of $2,500. He puts several hundred of them on the market nation-wide & overseas. The Model XYZ gets very VERY favorable reviews by all guitar magazines & blogs.

My first wondering is this: were the instruments that were provided to those well-known reviewers 100% typical of the Model XYZ guitars that I might find at my local music store? Or did the Martyn Company cherry-pick the instrument that each reviewer received to try out?

Further, when I read guitar forums, I often read a thread that goes something like this *hypothetical example*: The OP reports how he went to a store that had 5 Model XYZ guitars in stock. He played all 5 of them & bought the one that he said was waaay better than the other 4. The thing is, of the remaining 4, won't 1 of them be better (to the skilled ear of a skilled musician) than the other 3? Sure it will, right? Then, of the remaining 3, 1 of them will be better than the other 2, right?

And so forth, until only 1 Model XYZ remains, and it is the Model XYZ that 4 or more other folks have judged to be the runt of the litter. So in walks Joe Bananas, an average so-so player, who has been playing a $100 plywood banger and has decided that he wants to move up to a real nice guitar. He buys that last Model XYZ -- the runt of the litter -- at the same price as the first 4 players paid. Why? Because -- gee whiz! it's a Martyn XYZ!

So.... what's wrong with this story?

Beauty is in the ear of the beholder...........and sometimes the eye!!!

Brand recognition, no matter the product, TV, toaster, tennis racket, basketball shoes will always influence consumers. If your budget is up to $5000 then you have a lot of choices, if it is $500 then not as many.

To carry your scenario of 5 identical guitars farther. If 5 people came in at the same time and played all 5 guitars............ person A might like #1 guitar best, person B might like #3 guitar best, person C might might like guitar #2 best, etc. etc.

A top quality product usually won't have a complete dog in a sample of 5. But the sound can be a bit different and each one appealing to a different person. Do you want bright or warm, soft or loud, lots of sustain or quick note decay. At the end of the day you pick what you like to hear. It's just as with ukuleles a real cheap instrument stands little chance of sounding as good as an expensive instrument. This is due to the quality of materials used and the skill of the builder. It might get somewhat close and for some people that's good enough.

I'll end with this.....kinda takes your side. I bought a used Eastman E100 LTD, 00 size 12 fret solid spruce and sapelle, new price $900. Bought a used Taylor 512e 12 fret solid cedar and mahogany, new price $2800. They sound different of course but both sound great and I love listening to and playing the Eastman as much as the Taylor. But I have played some $900 Taylor's, Martins, Guilds etc That I didn't like the sound of. It's all personal preference

Swamp Yankee
12-14-2018, 06:45 AM
I like your comments. They make a lot of sense.



Wow! Really? Coz I was kinda pulling it outta my butt ;)


I have come across a lot of variability from one example of any given acoustic guitar to another. I guess it's mostly due to the inherent variability between each piece of wood - but makers that strive for consistency can overcome quite a bit of the variation we, as buyers, might find when we take 3 different Model XYZs off the rack. Perhaps it's a bit sad that this consistency of product is likely most easily attained by mechanizing much of the process, as programmed robotic machines are much more precise in reproducing the many parts that go into an acoustic guitar. Maybe this is one of the reasons I find that Taylor's guitars seem more consistent "off the rack" than Martin's guitars ...as Taylor has invested heavily in robotics.

bellgamin
12-14-2018, 08:56 AM
Wow! Really? Coz I was kinda pulling it outta my butt ;) ... ...Some politicians have gone far doing exactly that -- for instances: Hillarity & The Donald. Maybe you should run for President or Governor or Senator or something. Play your uke or guitar on your political ads & you would win in a landslide (everybody loooves a picker). :music:

@ DownUpDave -- That's what I'm always hunting for -- the $900 guitar that sounds as good as a $2800 guitar. That's a rare find, but it's what makes the hunt so enjoyable. :iwant: