Furniture Connector Bolts and Cross Dowel Barrel nuts?

Steve-atl

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 10, 2018
Messages
210
Reaction score
0
I am going to try a bolt-on neck for my first ukulele baritone scratch build. I am looking for Furniture Bolts with M Barrel Nuts (See attachment). I think that's what they are called anyway.

Where is a good place to order the hardware

thanks
 

Attachments

  • Screen Shot 2019-01-30 at 2.31.18 PM.jpg
    Screen Shot 2019-01-30 at 2.31.18 PM.jpg
    15.3 KB · Views: 83
Don't know where you live but Ace Hardware carries them. I'm doing a bolt on it for a different type and saw some while I was getting hanger bolts
 
I have only ever used lagbolts, I think they are easier.
 
Strange world we live in...I have an "engineering background" and I do complicated compound dovetail joints in wood, and the Guys with a "wood working background" use nuts and bolts. :confused:
 
Like Ken, I'm a dovetail person. Bolts are for banjos! If you want to use barrel nuts, why not make your own? Just a piece of steel rod drilled and tapped. Personally, I like the concept of "handmade" to be carried out as far as is reasonably possible. Won't cost you much, and if you have not worked with steel, it actually is kind of fun sometimes.
 
Like Ken, I'm a dovetail person. Bolts are for banjos! If you want to use barrel nuts, why not make your own? Just a piece of steel rod drilled and tapped. Personally, I like the concept of "handmade" to be carried out as far as is reasonably possible. Won't cost you much, and if you have not worked with steel, it actually is kind of fun sometimes.
Brass is a good materal for making your own cross barrel nuts.
 
Strange world we live in...I have an "engineering background" and I do complicated compound dovetail joints in wood, and the Guys with a "wood working background" use nuts and bolts. :confused:

Engineers have used woodworking joints before, so you are in good company.

"Before 1775 the only way to cross the Severn Gorge was by ferry. Abraham Darby III, an ironmaster working at Coalbrookdale in the gorge, was commissioned to cast and build a bridge (The Ironbridge).

The bridge comprises more than 800 castings of 12 basic types. The method chosen to create the structure was therefore based on carpentry. Each member of the frame was cast separately, and fastenings followed those used in woodworking, such as the mortise and tenon and blind dovetail joints. Bolts were used to fasten the half-ribs together at the crown of the arch.

The bridge was raised in the summer of 1779, and it was opened on New Year's Day 1781"

Max
 
Engineers have used woodworking joints before, so you are in good company.

"Before 1775 the only way to cross the Severn Gorge was by ferry. Abraham Darby III, an ironmaster working at Coalbrookdale in the gorge, was commissioned to cast and build a bridge (The Ironbridge).

The bridge comprises more than 800 castings of 12 basic types. The method chosen to create the structure was therefore based on carpentry. Each member of the frame was cast separately, and fastenings followed those used in woodworking, such as the mortise and tenon and blind dovetail joints. Bolts were used to fasten the half-ribs together at the crown of the arch.

The bridge was raised in the summer of 1779, and it was opened on New Year's Day 1781"

Max
And the worlds first motor cycle was also made of wood :)
 
I no longer use a barrel bolt

I used to use a barrel bolt approach for a bolt-on neck. However, I had two 'incidents' where the neck heel cracked. One was a severe shipping issue, and one was a ukulele on a stand that got kicked over on-stage and did a header. Kind of extreme cases, but they pointed to a weak point since the breakage was the same in both cases.

The issue is that with the barrel bolt one must drill out a hole in the neck heel for the barrel bolt, and then a cross-hole for the neck bolt. The neck heel has the grain running across the heel, so with the removal of the wood for the barrel bolt there is not really much wood left, and the grain is perfect for a crack/split. The issue is illustrated in the first picture.

I have since gone to gluing an oak cross dowel into the neck, and then using a brass threaded insert. I use "E-Z Lok 400-4 Threaded Insert, Brass, Knife Thread, 1/4"-20 Internal Threads, 0.500"" because they have really sharp wood threads. The dowel has a larger diameter than the threaded insert, which means that:
1) The threads of the threaded insert are biting into cross fibers of the oak dowel, not end grain as would be the case if the insert was threaded directly into the end of the neck. Much stronger.
2) Since the insert is a smaller diameter than the oak dowel there are oak dowel fibers that run all the way up and down the heel, meaning that it is very difficult to crack horizontally.
3) There are no voids in the neck heel, solid wood.
This is illustrated in the second picture.

As a test I built a test neck with this setup, bolted it to a block, and then dropped a 3 pound sledge hammer onto the outer end of the 'neck'. It just bounced, the neck was fine.
 

Attachments

  • heel_1.JPG
    heel_1.JPG
    25.1 KB · Views: 82
  • heel_2.JPG
    heel_2.JPG
    26.8 KB · Views: 81
I used to use a barrel bolt approach for a bolt-on neck. However, I had two 'incidents' where the neck heel cracked. One was a severe shipping issue, and one was a ukulele on a stand that got kicked over on-stage and did a header. Kind of extreme cases, but they pointed to a weak point since the breakage was the same in both cases.

The issue is that with the barrel bolt one must drill out a hole in the neck heel for the barrel bolt, and then a cross-hole for the neck bolt. The neck heel has the grain running across the heel, so with the removal of the wood for the barrel bolt there is not really much wood left, and the grain is perfect for a crack/split. The issue is illustrated in the first picture.

I have since gone to gluing an oak cross dowel into the neck, and then using a brass threaded insert. I use "E-Z Lok 400-4 Threaded Insert, Brass, Knife Thread, 1/4"-20 Internal Threads, 0.500"" because they have really sharp wood threads. The dowel has a larger diameter than the threaded insert, which means that:
1) The threads of the threaded insert are biting into cross fibers of the oak dowel, not end grain as would be the case if the insert was threaded directly into the end of the neck. Much stronger.
2) Since the insert is a smaller diameter than the oak dowel there are oak dowel fibers that run all the way up and down the heel, meaning that it is very difficult to crack horizontally.
3) There are no voids in the neck heel, solid wood.
This is illustrated in the second picture.

As a test I built a test neck with this setup, bolted it to a block, and then dropped a 3 pound sledge hammer onto the outer end of the 'neck'. It just bounced, the neck was fine.

While this is an interesting method, I still prefer simple lagbolts, I am amazed that more people don't use them.
 
Thanks Jupiteruke for such a detailed explanation on bolt on necks. Nice diagrams too.

As a test I built a test neck with this setup, bolted it to a block, and then dropped a 3 pound sledge hammer onto the outer end of the 'neck'. It just bounced, the neck was fine.

I like your testing methods. Relieves stress around the shop.
 
If you’re concern is about the threads holding in end grain, you'll have a more secure construction if you glue a wooden dowel where you're thinking of putting the barrel nut. I'd orient the rings of the dowel in line with the length of the neck.
 
A lag bolt is just a wood screw fitted with a spanner init ?

Simplicity itself. Wood screw one one end and a machine thread on the other. Works perfectly. Been used on banjos for ever. Never had a failure.
 
Top Bottom