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cpatch
05-26-2009, 10:24 AM
How about forcing new members to read the FAQ before posting for the first time? With particular emphasis on searching the forums before posting, where to find the iamhawaii.com videos, and checking the list of tabs before requesting help with a song!

seeso
05-26-2009, 10:32 AM
That would be like heaven on earth.

UkuEroll
05-26-2009, 10:45 AM
How about forcing new members to read the FAQ before posting for the first time? With particular emphasis on searching the forums before posting, where to find the iamhawaii.com videos, and checking the list of tabs before requesting help with a song!

I wouldn't force anyone to do anything. But I understand what you mean. I bet we've all been culprits at some time. I know i have:D

Jimmy
05-26-2009, 10:46 AM
Just have a page with a video on how to play "I'm Yours" and put the confirm registration button at the end of the video :P

Nephidoc
05-26-2009, 11:03 AM
Why not institute requisite water boarding to see if they REALLY read it all?
Better yet a test and if you can't pass no "password"?

Stan

UkuLeLesReggAe
05-27-2009, 01:53 AM
why not ask them to sign some court papers?

Renaissance-Man
05-27-2009, 02:06 AM
They should have a note from their mother before they can post. :rolleyes:

UKISOCIETY
05-27-2009, 03:18 AM
Interesting thread.

BTW, what are the best type of strings that I should put on my uke? :p

dominicfoundthemooon
05-27-2009, 03:21 AM
umm i think we should just shoot them.. i mean.. this message board stuff is SERIOUS BIZ! so the next time i see it.. i will.. ready aim fire.. ooop.. i just had to shoot myself.. okay someone is going to have to take the next shot.

Thumper
05-27-2009, 03:37 AM
Hey, I'm a good sport. I'll read the FAQ, sign the waiver, learn the secret handshake, and endure some basic newbie hazing - you know, the traditional stuff with pingpong paddles, live goats, etc.

But if anybody pulls on a rubber glove and tells me to bend over, I'm outa here.

:eek:

dominicfoundthemooon
05-27-2009, 03:52 AM
Hey, I'm a good sport. I'll read the FAQ, sign the waiver, learn the secret handshake, and endure some basic newbie hazing - you know, the traditional stuff with pingpong paddles, live goats, etc.

But if anybody pulls on a rubber glove and tells me to bend over, I'm outa here.

:eek:

well then look out for a guy name UKI.. he can be shifty.. he will tell you the white glove is standard operating procedure.. it is not!

seeso
05-27-2009, 08:11 AM
Hardy har har.

Captain Google
05-27-2009, 08:36 AM
Interesting thread.

BTW, what are the best type of strings that I should put on my uke? :p

Use Worthz.

Joe H
05-27-2009, 08:57 AM
Hey, I'm a good sport. I'll read the FAQ, sign the waiver, learn the secret handshake, and endure some basic newbie hazing - you know, the traditional stuff with pingpong paddles, live goats, etc.

But if anybody pulls on a rubber glove and tells me to bend over, I'm outa here.

:eek:

There's a handshake! Cool!:D

cpatch
05-27-2009, 09:01 AM
My original point was that since UU already "forces" someone to join before posting there's no reason why they couldn't be taken to a basic version of the FAQ (or an abbreviated posting guidelines page) immediately after signing up as a member. Other forums I belong to do it and while it's obviously not going to eliminate people making redundant posts it might at least cut down the number who do. (Anyone who disagrees automatically volunteers to answer such posts!)

sukie
05-27-2009, 09:36 AM
All right, I will play the bad guy here -- even though I am a girl --

I politely remind all you "oldies" that you don't have to read the thread. It is not mandatory to read them all. If the newbs are like me, sometimes just posting is all the skill they have. I know, I use Worth clears and they are the only stringz I need, but sometimes new players just need a bit of massaging. Be nice to them and soon they will be posting the same complaint.

I am done now...:D

deach
05-27-2009, 09:40 AM
Because I've realized the search feature isn't very accurate, I've learned to ignore the redundant questions. It's the vague questions that irk me.

sukie
05-27-2009, 09:53 AM
It's the vague questions that irk me.

Such as?




.

deach
05-27-2009, 09:53 AM
Such as?




.

you know..........

sukie
05-27-2009, 09:55 AM
you know..........



lolzzzzzzz

UKISOCIETY
05-27-2009, 10:00 AM
What hand position should i Have on my uke?

Oh, and is my uke any good? it's got the clear strings on it and they loop around the tuning things.

Thanks!

Fred Miu
05-27-2009, 11:05 AM
That would be like heaven on earth.

wouldnt that be the day...


What hand position should i Have on my uke?

Oh, and is my uke any good? it's got the clear strings on it and they loop around the tuning things.

Thanks!

any questions, please see the uke beginners (http://www.ukuleleunderground.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=29) board for further discussions ;) .......and yes its fine.

Ukulele JJ
05-27-2009, 12:34 PM
I think a quiz would be more effective at the goal of indoctrinating newbies than simply throwing a FAQ (that they may or may not read) in front of them. It'd be like a UU citizenship test. They'd have to get a 70% or higher, or something. :p

That said, I'm not so sure the whole idea is one I'd get behind.

JJ

cpatch
05-27-2009, 12:48 PM
I think a quiz would be more effective at the goal of indoctrinating newbies than simply throwing a FAQ (that they may or may not read) in front of them.
Another option would be to pop up a dialog box the first times they click on "New Thread" that reminds them to use the search function and/or check the song tab section before posting.

swervy jervy
05-27-2009, 01:43 PM
http://images.tribe.net/tribe/upload/photo/be7/54b/be754bfd-c823-4f3a-b7ec-64020f90de7a

cpatch
05-27-2009, 02:00 PM
http://images.tribe.net/tribe/upload/photo/be7/54b/be754bfd-c823-4f3a-b7ec-64020f90de7a
Flying monkeys would be good too.

Thumper
05-27-2009, 02:30 PM
Not to interrupt the more creative suggestions (flying monkeys are the best so far), but I would like to offer this newbie insight:

I'm a longtime veteran of forums focused on other topics, and one thing that immediately stood out to me when I found UU was the fact that it even HAS a section for beginners. That's brilliant. Such a simple idea, yet I've never seen another forum that had one. And as a newbie, it's great to have a section where it's okay to ask a potentially stupid question or two - AFTER checking out the sticky posts that have been set up in the newbie section, of course.

This is a well-designed forum, moderated by knowledgeable folks who obviously care a great deal about this place. That's good stuff, and it makes me really glad I found UU.

Okay, that's enough out of this newbie. I'll assume the position, and you can resume your beatings.

Thank you sir! May I have another?

sukie
05-27-2009, 04:57 PM
Okay, that's enough out of this newbie. I'll assume the position, and you can resume your beatings.




Don't worry. Just buy Worth clearz -- don't even bother asking, just buy them -- and get a top end ukulele immediately and you should be good to go.:D

Seriously though, newbies should feel free to ask away. Nobody is forcing us to read the threads for Uke Beginners.



22

allinfun
05-27-2009, 06:26 PM
I run a few boards and while it may seem like a nice idea the reality of it is, new people may not always know the right thing to search for. And for that you have to be tolerant or you chase off new people and their joy. Be glad they are enthusiastic and understand that the search functions of most boards are rudimentary at best. One has to get the exact wording/lingo of the group you are asking, then sift through 30 pages of unrelated crap hoping to find that one little gem of knowledge you are searching for. Then consider, that maybe someone read a similar thread about how great Aquilas are on Kala ukes, but he's got an Oscar Schmidt with Hilo strings on it and wants to know if Aquilas will work on his uke. To him the question hasn't been answered for his specific scenario, though to all of us we have answered this ad nauseum.

It's all good brother. I have read some of your posts and can appreciate your enthusiasm for structure. Read the title, and make a choice to open. It all comes down to choices. Read the OP and make a choice to respond. Read the second post, and you are a sick soul with a penchant for self-abuse. For me, there are far bigger things in life than worrying about posting protocols and how many times people ask for the tab for I'm yours, I prefer to leave that fun job for the moderators.

:shaka:

wfwhitson
05-27-2009, 08:08 PM
I run a few boards and while it may seem like a nice idea the reality of it is, new people may not always know the right thing to search for. And for that you have to be tolerant or you chase off new people and their joy. Be glad they are enthusiastic and understand that the search functions of most boards are rudimentary at best. One has to get the exact wording/lingo of the group you are asking, then sift through 30 pages of unrelated crap hoping to find that one little gem of knowledge you are searching for. Then consider, that maybe someone read a similar thread about how great Aquilas are on Kala ukes, but he's got an Oscar Schmidt with Hilo strings on it and wants to know if Aquilas will work on his uke. To him the question hasn't been answered for his specific scenario, though to all of us we have answered this ad nauseum.

It's all good brother. I have read some of your posts and can appreciate your enthusiasm for structure. Read the title, and make a choice to open. It all comes down to choices. Read the OP and make a choice to respond. Read the second post, and you are a sick soul with a penchant for self-abuse. For me, there are far bigger things in life than worrying about posting protocols and how many times people ask for the tab for I'm yours, I prefer to leave that fun job for the moderators.

:shaka:

Well said, I am a newbe, I have tryed the search and get page after page to look at and still no answer. This thread makes me wounder if I should even ask a question. God fobid that I break any rules.

seeso
05-27-2009, 08:18 PM
Well said, I am a newbe, I have tryed the search and get page after page to look at and still no answer. This thread makes me wounder if I should even ask a question. God fobid that I break any rules.

Please don't be afraid to ask a question. We're just blowing off a little steam.

You, and everyone else, noob or veteran, should feel comfortable asking a question here. I hope we haven't given you the wrong impression. Take some time and read through some threads, I'm sure you'll see that we're a welcoming bunch.

cpatch
05-27-2009, 08:20 PM
Well said, I am a newbe, I have tryed the search and get page after page to look at and still no answer. This thread makes me wounder if I should even ask a question. God fobid that I break any rules.
Nobody's picking on noobs in general...this board is generally very noob-friendly. My original post was mainly complaining about people who ask a question in their first post that be found very easily using search (or which gets asked a lot and could be better answered in a FAQ). I understand search doesn't always turn up results...I can't always find what I want either. But when I can't and I think I may be asking an obvious question I usually start out with "Hey, I tried search but..." It's people who obviously haven't bothered to search (or who want something tabbed out and emailed to them) that were the intended focus of this thread.

seeso
05-27-2009, 08:50 PM
Cpatch, would you be willing to write an addendum to our present FAQ?

sukie
05-28-2009, 02:46 AM
God fobid that I break any rules.

But that's what rules are for!




19

deach
05-28-2009, 02:52 AM
Well said, I am a newbe, I have tryed the search and get page after page to look at and still no answer. This thread makes me wounder if I should even ask a question. God fobid that I break any rules.

Always ask. Search first but always ask. Someone will answer your question although you might get occasional sarcastic remarks from me or someone like me but that's how it works off the internet too. It's not personal.

cpatch
05-28-2009, 03:54 AM
Cpatch, would you be willing to write an addendum to our present FAQ?
Sure. .

seeso
05-28-2009, 07:30 AM
Sure. .

Sweet. Write something up and we'll work it out. :shaka:

freedive135
05-28-2009, 09:02 AM
I'm with Cpatch on this one and I think this is kinda where he is aiming at this...

http://www.tikiroom.com/tikicentral/bb/newtopic.php?forum=1

This is the screen that comes up till you have 10 posts at tikiroom.com

cpatch
05-28-2009, 09:10 AM
I'm with Cpatch on this one and I think this is kinda where he is aiming at this...

http://www.tikiroom.com/tikicentral/bb/newtopic.php?forum=1

This is the screen that comes up till you have 10 posts at tikiroom.com
Exactly! (Although it says it comes up until you have 25 posts, which seems excessive...by 10 posts you should get the point.)

swervy jervy
05-28-2009, 10:02 AM
Exactly! (Although it says it comes up until you have 25 posts, which seems excessive...by 10 posts you should get the point.)


cpatch, is it possible that you've become a little over-involved with this internet forum?

You have in the past labled posts as appropriate or inappropriate and now you want to raise the drawbridge until by some matrix more posts are appropriate by your standards.

Where is your support for this? Read carefully how seeso is responding in this thread.

This place has it's own welcoming vibe. Everybody on here has posted out of naivity at some time. Yet it grows and grows into the top uke site in the world.

kailua
05-28-2009, 12:36 PM
sukie
Senior Member
I politely remind all you "oldies" that you don't have to read the thread.
I'm a noob, too. I have to agree with sukie. There are hundreds of post that don't interest me and I don't read. And yes, many are redundant. But, I don't think we should discourage involvement in the Forum by making anything mandatory. I would like to suggest that we "suggest" new members read the Rules, FAQ's, etc. and to use the search function to find information. Just MHO.

sukie
05-28-2009, 03:07 PM
"Force" is such a strong word.

smgold101
05-28-2009, 05:45 PM
By force you mean go to each new members houses when they sign up and physically make them click the FAQ thread and hold their eye lids open for them to read it? Correct?

smgold101
05-28-2009, 05:49 PM
Not really. It's just the first word of the thread title.

Im confused lol how else can we FORCE a new person to read the FAQ page lol

sukie
05-28-2009, 05:50 PM
I deleted that post. The word force just doesn't sit well with me.

smgold101
05-28-2009, 05:52 PM
I deleted that post. The word force just doesn't sit well with me.

Agreed =) force is a very strong word and not to mention impossible to enforce. Maybe encourage?

allinfun
05-28-2009, 06:43 PM
I disagree about the potential effectiveness of such an annoying feature on a board. Things like forced click here if you read this, really make a community loose its personality. First of all, the people who don't try and use the search function are not going to read a page of seemingly random letters which form words, that ultimately form a sentence that might to relate to them. They will scroll down to Agree, click, then ask a question that was addressed on the page you made them click to accept. All the “feature” does is irritate or frustrate the engaged people who want to be a part of the community. For sites with a general topic like ukes, or sailing, or even whiffle hamster, beginners and regulars will mix and you will have thread deja' vu.

If something bothers you, then you have many ways to deal with it and 2 obvious ones come to mind 1.don’t open or respond if you don’t want to contribute, or 2. if it violates the TOS let a moderator know. This is Ukulele Underground. First of all I hate to let out the secret but with a title like “underground” odds are good that a little freedom/anarchy is to be expected. Second, uke people are pretty easy going folks. Whether it's the island philosophy or ukes just make people easy to get along with, it doesn't matter, it's all cool. Just go with the flow and hang loose. As long as what we do does not impinge on the freedom of others, it's all good. Not using the search function does not impinge on anyone’s freedom to use UU. S'all good man... now let's all go play some music. :smileybounce:

cpatch
05-28-2009, 08:00 PM
"Force" is such a strong word.
"Force" was a definite mistake on my part..."Have" or "Encourage" would have been better and more along the terms of what I had in mind. Oh well.

UkuEroll
05-28-2009, 08:11 PM
"Force" was a definite mistake on my part..."Have" or "Encourage" would have been better and more along the terms of what I had in mind. Oh well.

Thats what I like to see, someone who can admit there mistakes, pity our politician's don't' think the same. Force was never going to cut it here.:)

cpatch
05-28-2009, 08:14 PM
You have in the past labled posts as appropriate or inappropriate and now you want to raise the drawbridge until by some matrix more posts are appropriate by your standards.
You'll notice that the title of this forum is "Site Suggestions." I'm making a suggestion, not raising a drawbridge. And yes, in the past I've suggested on two or three occasions (out of almost 900 posts) that a post or thread topic may be inappropriate given the wide age range of UU's members. The welcoming vibe you reference is partially due to the fact that no matter how old you are you can feel comfortable reading the threads as well as posting here...you're not going to get flamed (usually, anyway) and you're not going to have to weed through age-inappropriate material to find what you want.

Finally, while it's true that most people have posted out of naivete at one time or another, putting a mechanism in place that might help make sure people don't post out of naivete due to ignorance about how the forums work and are structured is a reasonable suggestion (whether you agree with it or not).

penelo
05-29-2009, 01:05 AM
There are about 12,000 users. Only about 3000 of these users are considered active, and I'm guessing that only a very small fraction of those users actually posts things.

A lot of times, I see unanswered questions, or threads posted in "Song help" with no replies. I can't help some members, but with 3000 users, even if it's merely 300 users, someone's bound to help. But many topics are replied with "Next time, use the search tool", followed by a link with the search tool's result (often not answering the question). If the only help I recieved was effortless and was tersely reprimanded on top of that, I would assume that this forum isn't very helpful at all. This is probably one of the reasons why 75% of our members are inactive (along with other unknown reasons).

My point is, it's not entirely the new member's fault. And if I have to go through the process of reading a longified begginer's thread and still have my question answered tritely, then I wouldn't feel welcome to ask a question anymore.

Ukulele JJ
05-29-2009, 01:42 AM
I see your point, Penelo. But at the same time, sometimes the most helpful thing is to tell a poster to search. Teach a man to fish and all that.

Granted, this should ideally be done nicely. It's important to encourage beginning ukers.

It's not so much frustrating to me as it is puzzling when I see threads like "I've looked everywhere for the chords for [fill in the song]. Help!", and then I type "[fill in the song] chords" into Google and get an entire page of results. :confused:

JJ

Witters
05-29-2009, 02:01 AM
Firstly, I don’t think you will ever stop anyone from asking the most basic of questions no matter how you try and encourage them to read certain things first.

There is also another take on this anyway.
Not everything written explains things in a manner that everyone can understand.
There may be something written about changing strings for example, but the reader still might not understand it.

UkuEroll
05-29-2009, 02:13 AM
Firstly, I don’t think you will ever stop anyone from asking the most basic of questions no matter how you try and encourage them to read certain things first.

There is also another take on this anyway.
Not everything written explains things in a manner that everyone can understand.
There may be something written about changing strings for example, but the reader still might not understand it.

I agree Witters, I've been posting since Christmas and I've only just started to get the hang of the forum, I like many asked basic questions, just because I was excited to have found such a great group. Give noobees a chance to settle in and then if they persist, maybe then point them to the search.

wfwhitson
05-29-2009, 04:03 AM
Will I would like to look at this in a totaly diffrent way.

Let's say that I want to learn the ukulele, and I hear that there is a bunch of guys/gals that meet weekly to just jam. Now they have a web site that says no matter what your ability come join us . When they come to our jam they can’t play a note or chord, and we are all advanced players. If they started asking questions, and we think that it should have been answered in the beginners book that they are carrying with them, are we going to tell them to go to the corner and read there book. Now most of you know that we all have a learning curve so that the same question can be answered in many different ways.

I for one might ask the same question over again until I get a answer that I understand. I have followed this thread with great interest. Some of the answers have been rather rude, some rather funny, but there is not one person that has made me mad enough to quit asking questions. There is not one person that I would not call a friend if we should meet some day.

No matter your back ground we are all here to continue are love of the ukulele, I learned early in life that.

( I have no one on this earth to impress, but my self. )

Renaissance-Man
05-29-2009, 04:54 AM
Bravo, wfwhitson. Well stated. :)

Link
05-29-2009, 11:04 AM
All I can add is that I really don't want this place to become like ultimate-guitar.com forums. Over there, if you ask a question and it has already been answered in a topic in the sites 10 year history, you get warned. Second time you get banned. There's exceptions, but that's pretty much how it is. And no matter your question, the first 10 replies are always telling you how stupid you are for asking the question, then someone finally answers.

Obviously I don't think cpatch is suggesting we make it that way, but this would kinda be a step in the general direction, at least in my opinion. I'm more than happy to answer the same question a million times, or discuss the same thing a few times. Take away topics about strings, how to do x chord, etc.. and UU becomes lame. Again, that's just my opinion.

cpatch
05-29-2009, 12:37 PM
Obviously I don't think cpatch is suggesting we make it that way
Definitely not!

RON<>VA
05-29-2009, 05:58 PM
Is it possible we are way overthinking all this? Just asking?:confused:

wfwhitson
05-29-2009, 06:35 PM
Is it possible we are way overthinking all this? Just asking?:confused:

I think so

UkuLeLesReggAe
05-29-2009, 07:13 PM
big thread haha, any decisions made?

CoffeeJunkee
05-29-2009, 11:13 PM
So, what kind of stringz should I use? I got these Worth Cleerz , are they good?... Thanks!

upskydowncloud
05-30-2009, 04:36 AM
I am a big fan of the search button, but I have to say there is something better about getting someone's opinion right there and then and not having to search for ages on it. For a start it's much more personal, how on earth will anyone here ever make friends if all they do is search?

There are newbies constantly asking about iamhawaii for example, I could just say SEARCH but I find it more pleasant to help them, write a line and say welcome. Sure it can be annoying if you have to do it a few times a day but it's a better way to make friends I think.

GrumpyCoyote
05-30-2009, 06:49 AM
All right, I will play the bad guy here -- even though I am a girl --

I politely remind all you "oldies" that you don't have to read the thread. It is not mandatory to read them all. If the newbs are like me, sometimes just posting is all the skill they have. I know, I use Worth clears and they are the only stringz I need, but sometimes new players just need a bit of massaging. Be nice to them and soon they will be posting the same complaint.

I am done now...:D

I'm with you - and I'm usually the surly one.

Few things piss me off more than the "use the search button, up there" replies to a new member.

N00bs can be annoying sure, but c'mon, how hard is it to be polite and answer the question BEFORE suggesting the search button.

It's like inviting someone into your home and then mocking them when they ask where the bathroom is. Just rude.

I'm all for teaching someone to fish for themselves, but I'm also for making this joint welcoming. If that means I have to answer one or two repetitive questions a day, I consider it a tax well spent.

Every time we answer the "E-chord" question for example, there are other new folks who jump on and say "me too", or "thanks!" - that means the repetitive answer helped... despite being a PITA for us and having to be answered twice a week.

As for forcing a FAQ read - I like the concept, but think it just throws another "not welcome" sign at the door.

If n00b questions and non-search users bug you, just stay out of the thread. As annoying as repetitive questions are - they serve a valid purpose and are just part of the community process.

Ukulele JJ
05-30-2009, 07:09 AM
Netiquette goes both ways. Yes, it is impolite to rudely tell someone to use the search function. But let's not forget that it is also impolite to post a question on a forum without having searched for it first.

This has been the case for ages, going back to the pre-Web, USENET days, where you were expected to read the regularly-posted FAQ, newbie or not. It's a sign of respect for the community when you try to find out things on your own before you take up the time of the members.

Bottom line: Asking a question that has been asked a thousand times is rude. But, on the net as in the real world, there's a right and a wrong way to call someone's attention to their breach of etiquette. It should come in the spirit of friendliness and helpfulness, not nastiness.

JJ

pithaya9
05-30-2009, 12:26 PM
Just remember that everyone was a noob at one time. If you don't want to read a thread don't it's you choice. Hang loose and be happy everybody it's UU. :confused:

Link
05-30-2009, 01:04 PM
Amen grumps!

ukulele2544
05-31-2009, 10:49 PM
I don't think to force is a good idea but if they don't read the FAQ then thats there fault.

Witters
06-01-2009, 03:48 AM
I just started a thread that had been done just a week ago....and I even posted in the original one, so mistakes do happen, or maybe senile is creeping in:(

What day of the week is it?, where am I?:eek:

sukie
06-01-2009, 06:45 AM
It's Monday around noon here, but probably not for you!

Questions get asked. It's really not that big a deal unless somebody makes it that way.

Bissrok
06-01-2009, 07:08 AM
A lot of other forums have tried this before. Never seen it cut down on the number of clone threads, though (even when there's a quiz involved).

If it drives you crazy, just ignore the post. Either someone else will answer the guy's question or the poster will give up and use the Search button.

smgold101
06-01-2009, 07:09 AM
I just started a thread that had been done just a week ago....and I even posted in the original one, so mistakes do happen, or maybe senile is creeping in:(

What day of the week is it?, where am I?:eek:


Grandpa what are you doing up at this hour...go back to sleep :p

Russ Sonny Kemner
06-01-2009, 01:49 PM
What's a ukulele?

HoldinCoffee
06-01-2009, 01:56 PM
:biglaugh:
What's a ukulele?

:rotfl:

cpatch
06-01-2009, 01:57 PM
What's a ukulele?
Beats me. Something that lives underground, apparently.