Baritone DGBE/GCEA Selection Process

KanzaKruzer

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I ordered my first ukulele and plan to try out both DGBE and low GCEA tuning to determine which I like best on my new baritone. I am a novice and could use any insight on the string changing process. As an example, can you put strings back on a ukulele after they have been removed? The scale length of my Pono ULN4 baritone is 21.4” which is slightly longer than a standard baritone. It is being shipped with the factory Ko'olau Alohi DGBE baritone strings. I ordered a set of baritone low G Tuning GCEA Living Water strings as well as Baritone Low GCEA from Guadalupe Custom Strings. What are the appropriate size strings and tension? Any other tips on how to change strings or how best to evaluate picking a preferred tuning? I have had one ukulele lesson and the instructor favors tenor ukuleles which have GCEA tuning which may influence my decision. What is the general consensus on baritone tuning? I have large hands, so I desired a longer fretboard, but long neck tenors were out of my price range. The Pono Baritone BN4 was also outside my price range as well as being larger than I needed.
 
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This is an interesting choice for your first ukulele, do you come from a guitar background????

There is a lot of ground to cover regarding your questions, are you experienced with stringed instruments
 
Congrats on ordering your first ukulele. I hope it gives you years of enjoyment. I have two baritones and I keep one in DGBE tuning and the other in GCEA tuning. I haven't yet tried to put strings back on a ukulele after removing them, so I can't offer any insight into that question.

On your question about what is the general consensus, I don't believe there is a consensus. Tuning is a very individual thing, as it comes down to your personal preference. I don't know what your background is with music or with stringed instruments, so pardon me if this next comment is something you already know, but there is a difference between the two sets of GCEA strings that you have ordered. The Living Water GCEA are the same notes as the GCEA strings on a tenor ukulele. The Guadalupe Custom strings are an octave-lower GCEA. So the baritone ukulele with thse Guadalupe Custom strings will have a lower, deeper sound, more like a guitar than a ukulele.

If your instructor is using GCEA tuning, there might be some value in you having the same tuning as he/she does, so you could use the Living Water strings for that. Whichever you choose, good luck and enjoy it!
 
This is an interesting choice for your first ukulele, do you come from a guitar background????

There is a lot of ground to cover regarding your questions, are you experienced with stringed instruments

I played an acoustic guitar for a year or two during high school and an electric guitar for a year or two when my son was in high school. I am still a complete novice at musical instruments. I'm retired and should be able to allocate 15-30 minutes per day for practice. I figure that 4 strings have to be easier than 6.
 
Congrats on ordering your first ukulele. I hope it gives you years of enjoyment. I have two baritones and I keep one in DGBE tuning and the other in GCEA tuning. I haven't yet tried to put strings back on a ukulele after removing them, so I can't offer any insight into that question.

On your question about what is the general consensus, I don't believe there is a consensus. Tuning is a very individual thing, as it comes down to your personal preference. I don't know what your background is with music or with stringed instruments, so pardon me if this next comment is something you already know, but there is a difference between the two sets of GCEA strings that you have ordered. The Living Water GCEA are the same notes as the GCEA strings on a tenor ukulele. The Guadalupe Custom strings are an octave-lower GCEA. So the baritone ukulele with thse Guadalupe Custom strings will have a lower, deeper sound, more like a guitar than a ukulele.

If your instructor is using GCEA tuning, there might be some value in you having the same tuning as he/she does, so you could use the Living Water strings for that. Whichever you choose, good luck and enjoy it!

If I am unable to swap strings back and forth until I decide, I will have to cover all the bases each time I try one of these three. I thought the Guadalupe strings were lower than the Living Water strings, but was not sure. I suspect the Guadalupe strings which are an octave lower may be a good fit for my guitar, while still having similar cord shapes to the tenor. How does the octave lower Guadalupe string set compare to the standard baritone DGBE, higher, lower, etc.? Can you use standard ukulele song books (tenor) with the Guadalupe string set?
 
I played an acoustic guitar for a year or two during high school and an electric guitar for a year or two when my son was in high school. I am still a complete novice at musical instruments. I'm retired and should be able to allocate 15-30 minutes per day for practice. I figure that 4 strings have to be easier than 6.

Ukuleles are stereo typically thought of as smaller instruments, soprano, concert and tenor all tuned GCEA. This is what everybody thinks of when talking about a ukulele. Your "baritone" is a different animal altogether, both in tuning DGBE and it is larger than a normal baritone. None of tbis is bad, just different.

Realize that with baritone DGBE tuning the chords are different then normal GCEA ukulele tuning. Most shapes are the same ie. forming G chord on a soprano is D on a baritone. Same shape different name and notes. So you have to commit to learn DGBE tuning or GCEA tuning......or your brain will explode:p

If you plan to attend uke jams and play with others it would be easier for you to follow along if it was tuned GCEA. You will need to change the strings to do this as you seem to know already. I have owned this same instrument but the steel string model. I also own baritones and all the other sizes of ukulele. If just playing at home and you like the deep resonant sound of your Mini 4 string nylon guitar keep it as is. Hope this helps
 
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If I am unable to swap strings back and forth until I decide, I will have to cover all the bases each time I try one of these three. I thought the Guadalupe strings were lower than the Living Water strings, but was not sure. I suspect the Guadalupe strings which are an octave lower may be a good fit for my guitar, while still having similar cord shapes to the tenor. How does the octave lower Guadalupe string set compare to the standard baritone DGBE, higher, lower, etc.? Can you use standard ukulele song books (tenor) with the Guadalupe string set?

I’ve been swapping used strings back and fro with no issues at all.
 
A little string theory 101. A DGBE baritone is tuned 5 steps down from GCEA, so placing a capo on the fifth fret gets you to GCEA. Because DGBE is so much lower in tone the strings have less tension under finger and need to be larger in diameter. When replacing strings to tune it up to GCEA the strings will be smaller in diameter or the tension would be much too high. Do not attempt to tune up to GCEA with the stock strings, you seem to know this already. You can use concert gauge strings on this instrument if you want to tune it up to GCEA, I have done this many times. Problem is your long scale length, standard set might be to short. You will need to buy Worth strings as they are double length.
 
KanzaKruzer, yes you can use the same standard tenor uke song books when you're using octave-lower Guadalupe string set. The chord fingering patterns are the same; you'll just be playing them an octave lower. The Guadalupe strings span a lower set of notes than standard baritone DGBE. The lowest sting on the Guadalupe set (G) is lower than the D in the standard baritone set. The highest Guadalupe string (A) fits right in between the G and the B on a standard baritone set. Hope that helps, though I know this can all get confusing.
 
Congrats on ordering your first ukulele. I hope it gives you years of enjoyment. I have two baritones and I keep one in DGBE tuning and the other in GCEA tuning. I haven't yet tried to put strings back on a ukulele after removing them, so I can't offer any insight into that question.

On your question about what is the general consensus, I don't believe there is a consensus. Tuning is a very individual thing, as it comes down to your personal preference. I don't know what your background is with music or with stringed instruments, so pardon me if this next comment is something you already know, but there is a difference between the two sets of GCEA strings that you have ordered. The Living Water GCEA are the same notes as the GCEA strings on a tenor ukulele. The Guadalupe Custom strings are an octave-lower GCEA. So the baritone ukulele with thse Guadalupe Custom strings will have a lower, deeper sound, more like a guitar than a ukulele.

If your instructor is using GCEA tuning, there might be some value in you having the same tuning as he/she does, so you could use the Living Water strings for that. Whichever you choose, good luck and enjoy it!

Guadaupe also have standard re-entrant strings for baritone.
 
My understanding is that Tenors used to be normally tuned the same as a Baritone DGBE.

But that changed and the vast majority of them are now tuned GCEA or gCEA (Low-G).

I play tenors. Early on I bought a book called Understanding Ukulele Chords by Robert van Renesse. Throughout the book he separated Sopranos & Concerts and Tenors & Baritones. Into the two tunings. It got very confusing. Even when I knew what he was doing. I had to cross out the tenor references to get my mind around what he was saying.

There is a beginners section on the forum where you can ask questions. And I highly recommend Barry Maz' website blog gotaululele.com that is primarily aimed at new ukulele players. It and his two books are loaded with excellent tips and suggestions for new players. Plus he has a series of excellent ukulele reviews that are highly regarded and followed. Tons of YouTube videos and Ukulele Underground offers a lot of tips and has a paid tutorial series as well.

Best of luck with your quest to learn. It's great that you have an instructor. (I live in a small town and I can't find one for ukulele unless I drive 100 miles.) It's a lot of fun. Let us know how you are progressing.
 
Ukuleles are stereo typically thought of as smaller instruments, soprano, concert and tenor all tuned GCEA. This is what everybody thinks of when talking about a ukulele. Your "baritone" is a different animal altogether, both in tuning DGBE and it is larger than a normal baritone. None of tbis is bad, just different.

Realize that with baritone DGBE tuning the chords are different then normal GCEA ukulele tuning. Most shapes are the same ie. forming G chord on a soprano is D on a baritone. Same shape different name and notes. So you have to commit to learn DGBE tuning or GCEA tuning......or your brain will explode:p

If you plan to attend uke jams and play with others it would be easier for you to follow along if it was tuned GCEA. You will need to change the strings to do this as you seem to know already. I have owned this same instrument but the steel string model. I also own baritones and all the other sizes of ukulele. If just playing at home and you like the deep resonant sound of your Mini 4 string nylon guitar keep it as is. Hope this helps

Dave,

Thanks for the insight. I have never changed strings on a guitar or ukulele, but suspect I can check out YouTube for instructions. There is a fairly active local ukulele group called Kansas City Ukesters that I plan to check out. I'd like to pick one option for tuning and stick with it.

David
 
KanzaKruzer, yes you can use the same standard tenor uke song books when you're using octave-lower Guadalupe string set. The chord fingering patterns are the same; you'll just be playing them an octave lower. The Guadalupe strings span a lower set of notes than standard baritone DGBE. The lowest sting on the Guadalupe set (G) is lower than the D in the standard baritone set. The highest Guadalupe string (A) fits right in between the G and the B on a standard baritone set. Hope that helps, though I know this can all get confusing.

That is what I was hoping for. That will give me three options for tuning, two of which are GCEA.
 
My understanding is that Tenors used to be normally tuned the same as a Baritone DGBE.

But that changed and the vast majority of them are now tuned GCEA or gCEA (Low-G).

I play tenors. Early on I bought a book called Understanding Ukulele Chords by Robert van Renesse. Throughout the book he separated Sopranos & Concerts and Tenors & Baritones. Into the two tunings. It got very confusing. Even when I knew what he was doing. I had to cross out the tenor references to get my mind around what he was saying.

There is a beginners section on the forum where you can ask questions. And I highly recommend Barry Maz' website blog gotaululele.com that is primarily aimed at new ukulele players. It and his two books are loaded with excellent tips and suggestions for new players. Plus he has a series of excellent ukulele reviews that are highly regarded and followed. Tons of YouTube videos and Ukulele Underground offers a lot of tips and has a paid tutorial series as well.

Best of luck with your quest to learn. It's great that you have an instructor. (I live in a small town and I can't find one for ukulele unless I drive 100 miles.) It's a lot of fun. Let us know how you are progressing.

I found an instructor and had a lesson before I bought my ukulele. He let me play his baritone and tenor. I found the longer fret board easier to handle with my large hands. During that lesson, I found out GCEA may make it easier to communicate with the local ukulele club. The lower G Guadalupe strings may match well with my larger than normal baritone and at least be somewhat more common chord nomenclature.
 
When you are in the learning stage, forget about what you like the best and focus on what the teacher wants you to do. If the teacher uses GCEA, then use GCEA. If the teacher wants you to learn a tune you don't like, learn the tune and stick to the program. The learning phase is not about what you like, its about learning enough stuff so you can start to play what you like.
Ask the teacher these questions. The teacher will probably ignore some of them because they have little relevance to the learning process. The teacher will help you with the questions that are relevant.
Its nice to read the beginner websites and all about laminates and strings and curly wood, but the ukulele is a musical instrument. The teacher should be teaching you how to play a musical instrument, beginner websites and laminates and curly wood don't have a lot to do with learning how to play a musical instrument. Don't get distracted by these details while you are learning how to play a musical instrument.


Good advice. I plan to talk about tuning at the next lesson after I have the ukulele. The first lesson was to compare the size of the tenor and baritone. The baritone was much more comfortable for me. Since I am starting from scratch, I'll probably head in whatever direction the instructor suggests.
 
If you used the octave lower GCEA but used high G, would the G be the same G that is in the standard DGBE? Would the octave lower gCEA have a lower overall tone than the standard baritone DGBE? Is this combo ever used? How can you get the same or lower overall tone than the standard baritone DGBE but not have the really low G?

Can this be accomplished without wound strings that squeak and avoid higher tension than the standard baritone setup?
 
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A little string theory 101. A DGBE baritone is tuned 5 steps down from GCEA, so placing a capo on the fifth fret gets you to GCEA. Because DGBE is so much lower in tone the strings have less tension under finger and need to be larger in diameter. When replacing strings to tune it up to GCEA the strings will be smaller in diameter or the tension would be much too high. Do not attempt to tune up to GCEA with the stock strings, you seem to know this already. You can use concert gauge strings on this instrument if you want to tune it up to GCEA, I have done this many times. Problem is your long scale length, standard set might be to short. You will need to buy Worth strings as they are double length.

When the OP said he'd ordered "Baritone Low GCEA" strings, I was assuming that meant 4 steps below DGBE, due to the extra long scale length of the instrument, as I have that particular low G on my regular-20" scale, fifths-tuned GDAE baritone. But I'm not familiar with the Guadalupe strings in question, so I don't know whether they're intended to be lower or higher than the traditional DGBE baritone tuning.

To my fifths-oriented brain, a 21.4" scale baritone would even be wonderfully suited to Ondrej's Ukecello CGDA tuning.

In any case, with the extra length, I have a hard time wrapping my brain around it being tuned to GCEA at 5 steps higher than a DGBE baritone, but maybe that's just me.

bratsche
 
That's a lot of questions! But I'll give it a go.
If you used the octave lower GCEA but used high G, would the G be the same G that is in the standard DGBE?
Yes. Both would be a G3 note.

Would the octave lower gCEA have a lower overall tone than the standard baritone DGBE?
Yes, since the range would be C3 to A3 whereas DGBE would be D3 to E4.

Is this combo ever used?
Never heard of it, but no reason you can't be the first.

How can you get the same or lower overall tone than the standard baritone DGBE but not have the really low G?

You just found one way. You could also go in-between with the right strings: CFAD, BEG#C#, ADF#B

Can this be accomplished without wound strings that squeak and avoid higher tension than the standard baritone setup?
You'll need wound strings but there are flatwounds like Thomastik Infeld that squeak a lot less. It would depend on the scale length and tuning which gauges you could use to achieve a certain tuning.
 
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