Odd Dead Note Issue

I have a Romero Replica tenor that I recently purchased that has what I think is a odd issue. The B note on the A string will ring in a somewhat muted sound without much sustain. However, if the uke is held a certain way between my body and arm it is much better. It has significantly more sustain. Holding it this way has no effect on any other notes.

I really like this tenor and am willing to overlook this oddity but am curious if other folks have run across this kind of thing. Any information will be appreciated. Ray

I have found that on some instruments, the odd note doesn't ring as clearly and has that dull sound. Changing the string has sometimes helped, but usually I just put it down to a quirk of that particular instrument.

Sorry, can't help but I know what you're talking about!

That is a tough note to not be right. The position change is odd. You need to find out if it is the pressure on the soundboard or back that is influencing the note. If it is the soundboard you might be able to fix it with an arm rest that frees up the soundboard to vibrate.

It would be odd if the back would have that much influence. If that is the case and it bugs you enough it “might” be possible to slightly scallop a back brace(s) to free the back up a bit, but you really should take it to someone to have it done.

John

Check the height of the next fret. The string might be so very close to a high fret that it's vibration, thus the sound is affected. If that is the case, its and easy fix. Level your frets.

Most of my instruments, even really expensive ones, have a few minor wolf and/or dead tones. I can usually compensate while playing but the big deal is the degree of the unevenness of volume. When I bought a new Kremona Mari tenor it had some two nasty wolf notes: open E and F on the 1st fret of the second string were twice as loud as the surrounding notes. Oddly enough, they almost disappeared after a couple weeks of being up to pitch. Six months later are pretty much even with the surrounding notes. I suppose the soundboard needed to flex into shape and acclimate to Hawaii. On the other hand my RC Tiny Tenor 6 has one note—D-sharp on the 6th fret of the 1st string—that has about half the sustain of the notes around it. Volume and timbre are fine but it sounds clipped and, after 4 months, hasn't changed much. Normally I observe such short sustain above the 12th fret but everything above the 12th fret rings like a dad burn bell.

Briangriffinukuleles said:

Check the height of the next fret. The string might be so very close to a high fret that it's vibration, thus the sound is affected. If that is the case, its and easy fix. Level your frets.

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This is what I would think the problem is. Let us know if you get it resolved!

RLM3121 said:

However, if the uke is held a certain way between my body and arm it is much better. It has significantly more sustain.

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That's interesting. It sounds like holding it that way is causing the configuration of the uke to change slightly. Maybe there's slight movement between the neck and the body, or there's a bit more compression of the body or top of the uke. I hope someone has an answer for this. I think we need a luthier the chime in.

I think it really has something to do with the vibration of the back. The surrounding frets some to be the same. I just think that putting pressure on the back is changing something.

RLM3121 said:

I think it really has something to do with the vibration of the back. The surrounding frets some to be the same. I just think that putting pressure on the back is changing something.

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Can you figure out exactly where on the back?

I know that there is a product called Tone Gard that some people use on the back of mandolins to move the instrument away from the body. Not something I would do, but, as mentioned above, it might be possible for a luthier to slightly shave a back brace to get the back to vibrate more.

John

Actually the first step is to play a B note on the G string. You should get the same result if it is frequency related. If it has plenty of sustain and not muted, try the same note on the E string.

John

A fix for bonky notes

A Fix for Bonky Notes
I am a longtime guitar player with 50 + years on that instrument, and like most guitarists, I’m sort of a tone freak. Since picking up the ukulele in the last year or so, I have noticed that every one I’ve tried has a couple of notes which resonate so strongly that overtones and sustain are quashed, resulting in a “bonky” quality, for want of a better word. This occurs even on high end Kanileas, Koalohas and Kamakas, as well as mid-priced Kalas, Rebels and Flights. It is most noticeable when playing fingerstyle or with a plectrum. The offending notes tend to be on the second and/or third fret of the A string on sopranos, the E string on concerts, and the C string on tenors, and on the same notes at other positions on the neck.
I think it is generic to small-bodied instruments. Violinists and violists sometimes tackle the problem by having a luthier attach an ebony block at a chosen point on the underside of the soundboard, but this has the downside of being irreversible.
I’ve discovered that this problem can be ameliorated by attaching a pebble or round lapel button to the surface of the ukulele just beside the bridge, using Blu-Tack, which does not harm finishes, at least not if it is removed in an hour or two. The small damper can be easily moved to find the best spot, and can be removed when strumming. Those resonances do add some body to the strummed sound.
If bonky notes bug you, give it a try.

70sSanO said:

Actually the first step is to play a B note on the G string. You should get the same result if it is frequency related. If it has plenty of sustain and not muted, try the same note on the E string.

John

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Exactly John. And in my experience it is often frequency related. I did a fair amount of reading on the topic and was left both encouraged (that my uke was not defective per se), but also discouraged that many say it's just a quirk of small scale instruments. I've returned K brand instruments in the 2K range because of the issue. Seemed like the more overall resonance the instrument had the more likely there were some problematic notes..

One thing about the Romero Replica tenor design is it has "reverse fan bracing" on the back, thereby causing the back to act as a secondary soundboard. If you hold the back against your belly, you lose considerable volume. Take the back off your belly mid-notes and you can hear the volume and sustain increase instantly. I found using a strap, tilting the instrument and placing a small cloth pad between the back and chest greatly reduces sound lost due to back contact.

I’ve been lucky, six tenor and only one has muted notes. They were on C string. I tried all the above. Check farts height. Try a zillion string changes! Checked the nut slots cut correctly. I got blue tac and put nickel , dime or quart all over the underside of soundboard. NOTHING helped. I sent the instrument back and got a replacement of a different brand. Having a good dealer and or buying from a manufacturer with good support and service is important. After all, ukuleles are not inexpensive.

In the end, it’s what you can put up with or NOT. In my case, it drove me nuts and I had to move on. Some can live with it.

I believe it has to do with frequency in my case. When I tuned down, the noted notes would move.

YMMV, good luck

It likely is the result of the ukulele's resonant frequency. Every acoustic instrument has a resonant frequency (unless the instrument is built like a tank and, thus, sounds dead). You can find your uke's resonant frequency by singing into the sound hole. Move the vocal around until you sing a note that makes the whole uke vibrate. There you go - that is the resonant frequency of your uke. In your case, I am willing to bet it exactly matches the dead note on your uke. Sometimes its most obvious when you sing a note one octave lower. In any case, most pros just play around that note - compensate in other ways. It is not so much that the note is dead or that there is a problem with the uke. It is just that you have a lively uke and its dealing with the laws of physics. I once asked Corey Fujimoto how he deals with this and he replied that he really doesn't notice it much (because every uke has this "issue") and when he does notice it, he adjusts (playing quiet notes louder, playing louder notes quieter, etc).

bearbike137 said:

It likely is the result of the ukulele's resonant frequency. Every acoustic instrument has a resonant frequency (unless the instrument is built like a tank and, thus, sounds dead). You can find your uke's resonant frequency by singing into the sound hole. Move the vocal around until you sing a note that makes the whole uke vibrate. There you go - that is the resonant frequency of your uke. In your case, I am willing to bet it exactly matches the dead note on your uke. Sometimes its most obvious when you sing a note one octave lower. In any case, most pros just play around that note - compensate in other ways. It is not so much that the note is dead or that there is a problem with the uke. It is just that you have a lively uke and its dealing with the laws of physics. I once asked Corey Fujimoto how he deals with this and he replied that he really doesn't notice it much (because every uke has this "issue") and when he does notice it, he adjusts (playing quiet notes louder, playing louder notes quieter, etc).

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I asked Tobias Elof and got a similar response. He said he just doesn't think about it and I think he intuitively works around it. I found it hard to ignore, I'm overly obsessed with tone and ultimately 'the issue' pushed me deeper into the world of my own alternate tunings. Sometimes just tuning one or two strings a few half steps put me in whole new county, if not country of music.

bearbike137 said:

It likely is the result of the ukulele's resonant frequency. Every acoustic instrument has a resonant frequency (unless the instrument is built like a tank and, thus, sounds dead). You can find your uke's resonant frequency by singing into the sound hole. Move the vocal around until you sing a note that makes the whole uke vibrate. There you go - that is the resonant frequency of your uke. In your case, I am willing to bet it exactly matches the dead note on your uke. Sometimes its most obvious when you sing a note one octave lower. In any case, most pros just play around that note - compensate in other ways. It is not so much that the note is dead or that there is a problem with the uke. It is just that you have a lively uke and its dealing with the laws of physics. I once asked Corey Fujimoto how he deals with this and he replied that he really doesn't notice it much (because every uke has this "issue") and when he does notice it, he adjusts (playing quiet notes louder, playing louder notes quieter, etc).

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I finally got around to trying this. Started with a mass of blu-tack about the size of a pea near the bridge (A string side). No change. Tried a little more.. nothing. Feeling like I wasn't getting anywhere, tried a mass about the size of a marble and wow. I'm impressed. A little sacrifice in overall resonance but it seems to have unlocked a tonal quality I hadn't heard. Now just need to do something more permanent inside.

One of my ukuleles, with otherwise excellent (and loud) tone, had a dead spot on the C string, 5th fret...

Changing strings to Aquila Reds made it a bit better - and then I switched the high G string to a Fremont low G one, which has completely eliminated it!

Guess that is an obligatory low G instrument then

UkeyT said:

A Fix for Bonky Notes

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This is gold I tell you! I have never heard about this, but it makes so much sense. Thank you.

Neil_O said:

This is gold I tell you! I have never heard about this, but it makes so much sense. Thank you.

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Agreed! It takes some patience but it works. Fascinating!