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ukantor
07-20-2009, 11:37 AM
I'm a fairly recent contributor to this forum, having been a regular on Ukulele Cosmos & its predecessor; Uketalk; and Fourth Peg. I'm unfamiliar with the use of moderators, and it seems to me that just when things are getting interesting, i.e. controversial, they often get nipped in the bud. Are we afraid of controversy, or the robust exchange of ideas and opinions? I can understand that many people may find it boring, or unpleasant, but why not just move a thread, if it develops that way, to a "sin bin", and let the adversaries slug it out? It would be a bit like cage fighting. Most entertaining.

On the other hand, it must be great to have the power to think, "Oh, what fools these mortals be", and just pull the plug.

I guess I'll just have to try to be a nicer person.

John Colter (Ukantor)

Thumper
07-20-2009, 11:48 AM
I'm a fairly recent contributor to this forum, having been a regular on Ukulele Cosmos & its predecessor; Uketalk; and Fourth Peg. I'm unfamiliar with the use of moderators, and it seems to me that just when things are getting interesting, i.e. controversial, they often get nipped in the bud. Are we afraid of controversy, or the robust exchange of ideas and opinions? I can understand that many people may find it boring, or unpleasant, but why not just move a thread, if it develops that way, to a "sin bin", and let the adversaries slug it out? It would be a bit like cage fighting. Most entertaining.

On the other hand, it must be great to have the power to think, "Oh, what fools these mortals be", and just pull the plug.

I guess I'll just have to try to be a nicer person.

John Colter (Ukantor)



Think about two things.

1) A forum is somebody else's house. They took the time to build it, they do the work to keep it up, and then they're nice enough to open the doors and let other people come hang out in it, without requiring them to do anything other than show up and behave respectfully. If you invited people to a party at your house, would you want them to think it was okay to "slug it out," or would you assume they had enough maturity and class to know that your house is not the place for such behavior (unless cage matches are a regular thing at your house).

2) Every day is somebody's first day here. You may have been here a month or a year, but it's a sure bet that somebody just found this place today. Is a vitriolic slugfest the first thing you want them to see - at a forum that is supposed to be about ukuleles? Think about that - whatever you're posting at any given time may be the first thing a newcomer sees. You can't undo a first impression.

Finally, there really is absolutely NO shortage of places where you can get ugly with other people on the web. Does UU really need to be one of them? I sure don't think so, and I don't think our moderators do, either.

Moderating is a thankless task. But it's an utterly necessary task for a forum with as good a heart as this one has. I think the moderators here do an amazing job, and I offer them my thanks and my congratulations. :shaka:

haole
07-20-2009, 11:48 AM
99% of the time a topic is cut off due to controversy, it's because it's drifted so far off topic and gotten to the point of condescending attacks rather than because someone has the nerve to express an unpopular opinion. Disagreement is healthy until it gets personal and irrelevant to the original subject.

The mods here aren't fascists who want to suppress free thought, and the members generally don't whine to have topics closed at the drop of a hat. Some folks just need to remember that regardless of the subforum, you're still at an ukulele forum. In the grand scheme of things, is it really worth ripping into someone on an ukulele forum? :confused: The goal of the moderators is to keep the atmosphere friendly and the threads pretty much on topic, and when something's out of line, it's up to them to fix it. Most internet forums are in fact not democracies, and you're subject to the rules and the mods. By signing up, you're essentially acknowledging that there isn't a whole lot you can do about that.

If you'd like to see a place where perpetual duelists duke it out, check elsewhere on the internet. This here's Ukulele Underground. :eek:

RevWill
07-20-2009, 11:58 AM
Finally, there really is absolutely NO shortage of places where you can get ugly with other people on the web. Does UU really need to be one of them? I sure don't think so, and I don't think our moderators do, either.

Moderating is a thankless task. But it's an utterly necessary task for a forum with as good a heart as this one has. I think the moderators here do an amazing job, and I offer them my thanks and my congratulations. :shaka:

Quoted for truth

mealfrog41
07-20-2009, 12:11 PM
I find it quite refreshing how positive and supportive everyone is around here, and do not wish to see or take part in much controversy.. we're talking about ukuleles for crying out loud. I think the mods do an incredible job of keeping this place peaceful and amicable. I am a member of only one other internet board, and let me tell you, the negative energy there and outright disrespect for other members is just mindblowing. I won't say what the site is, but it's crazy how ugly things can get in a hurry. So, thanks mods for keeping this place a safe haven from negative vibes and providing such a welcoming environment.

Citrus
07-20-2009, 12:11 PM
don't forget that if you really need to continue on with a person about something you think might get deleted, then just do it in private messages.

buddhuu
07-20-2009, 12:13 PM
[...]A forum is somebody else's house[...]

This says it all for me.

If the house you are visiting allows wrestling then wrestle to your heart's content. If, on the other hand, the family you are visiting prefers conversation, then it is polite to respect that preference, and to refrain from brawling on the carpet.

AnnaUK
07-20-2009, 12:16 PM
I haven't been here that long, but I think the mods do a great job. I'm glad we don't have to see people being nasty to each other, not that the UU peeps are really like that anyway.

I've also visited that other UK-based forum, and I must say, truthfully I did think some of the posts were a little rude, and one thread in particular was very condescending about beginners. I rarely go over there now. (I just spend every waking hour on here :D)

In my very humble opinion, I've found UU much friendlier and more welcoming.

sukie
07-20-2009, 12:18 PM
Dear AnnaUK,

You speak the truth. It's great here with very little nastiness. I also spend way too much time here, but it's because almost everyone is super-duper.:)

WhenDogsSing
07-20-2009, 12:20 PM
It's all about positive energy and UU has it...We don't need negative energy around here...That's all I have to say about it...:D

seeso
07-20-2009, 12:21 PM
I can't really add anything that hasn't already been said, and rather eloquently, I might add.

We moderators aren't perfect, though, so if you have a specific issue with how we conduct ourselves, feel free to send any one of us a PM.

BrotherUke
07-20-2009, 12:23 PM
It's all about positive energy and UU has it...We don't need negative energy around here...That's all I have to say about it...:D

Totally agree. I think the Mods have it just right. I love hanging out here for the positive vibe. It's so consistent with the music and the Hawaiian spirit. Please keep doin' what your doin'!

Denno
07-20-2009, 12:24 PM
I'm a fairly recent contributor to this forum, having been a regular on Ukulele Cosmos & its predecessor; Uketalk; and Fourth Peg. I'm unfamiliar with the use of moderators, and it seems to me that just when things are getting interesting, i.e. controversial, they often get nipped in the bud. Are we afraid of controversy, or the robust exchange of ideas and opinions? I can understand that many people may find it boring, or unpleasant, but why not just move a thread, if it develops that way, to a "sin bin", and let the adversaries slug it out? It would be a bit like cage fighting. Most entertaining.

On the other hand, it must be great to have the power to think, "Oh, what fools these mortals be", and just pull the plug.

I guess I'll just have to try to be a nicer person.

John Colter (Ukantor)

These 2 lines kind of sums it up.

PattyD
07-20-2009, 12:27 PM
Just when I thought it was safe to come out of Lake Lurk, I see a mod slinging mud. Think I'll tread water a little more and try again some other time.

Oscar baby, come to mama, we need some quality time!

seeso
07-20-2009, 12:32 PM
Just when I thought it was safe to come out of Lake Lurk, I see a mod slinging mud. Think I'll tread water a little more and try again some other time.

Oscar baby, come to mama, we need some quality time!

Was I slinging mud? :confused:

sukie
07-20-2009, 12:34 PM
Was I slinging mud? :confused:

I think so and I loved it. Also I think it was quite deserved.

kailua
07-20-2009, 12:35 PM
PattyD: ...I see a mod slinging mud.... HUHH? :confused:

seeso
07-20-2009, 12:35 PM
I think so and I loved it. Also I think it was quite deserved.

If PattyD was talking about my post in the Tanizaki thread, I feel bad about it. I apologized.

lisaxy424
07-20-2009, 12:42 PM
Wow...I'm so confused.

So I'll do what I always do when I'm confused...



:smileybounce:YAY!:smileybounce:

ukantor
07-20-2009, 12:56 PM
I read what people are saying, and I understand and respect your views. I'm happy with the status quo. I guess I'm just naturally a bit combative, but I can curb my natural tendencies.

To quote the great Richard Starkey, "Peace & Love - Peace & Love"

John Colter (Ukantor).

Melissa82
07-20-2009, 12:58 PM
Every forum seems to have its drama.

whetu
07-20-2009, 01:30 PM
You can either get nazi-strict communities (very hard to pull off well, SomethingAwful is the ONLY forum I can think of where strict rules haven't killed it), or you can get very relaxed-rules communities that typically wind up in threads upon threads of arguments, or full of posters who think "lol lmao roflgargle" is a meaningful post and "omgwtfbbq" is an appropriate response.

It's the moderator's thankless job to strike the best balance between the two extremes and give the community some direction. The best communities though are ones like this that are relatively self-moderating, usually with a layer of senior members doing pseudo-moderating.

I've moderated (and administrated) quite a few forums and I know first hand that it can be a very difficult balancing act to juggle the egos and keep everybody generally happy. You can't win 'em all though and sometimes you just have to put your foot down. The problem is the shield of anonymity* that the internet provides: people forget that they're in a public arena, they forget that they're adults, and people generally don't like being told "no". I've been called all manner of things and even had a (psycho!) guy harrass me via phone and then drive a couple of hours to pick a fight. He wasted his gas.

So take some time out of your day to thank your friendly, tolerant and patient moderators. You never know what kind of PM's they're sighing at, or where they're seeing that the drama (http://images.google.com/images?q=drama%20llama) llama (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v614/Bealzabuth/DramaLlama.jpg) has walked into a thread and pooped everywhere, or some disagreement has broken out that needs the waahmbulance (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3082/2569928929_1cc33d6207.jpg?v=0) to be called in. Maybe someone could write a "thankyou, moderators" song? :)

* I couldn't find the original Penny Arcade image in a timely manner, but here you go:
http://www.cydeweys.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/internet-theory.jpg

And a version for people who get upset at the F-bomb:
http://www.penny-arcade.com/docs/internetdickwad.jpg

UkuEroll
07-20-2009, 01:49 PM
Think about two things.

1) A forum is somebody else's house.
Couldn't have said it better myself:D

specific issue with how we conduct ourselves, feel free to send any one of us a PM.

I think you conduct yourselves admirably, I want to be a MOD when I grow up:)

hoosierhiver
07-20-2009, 01:54 PM
The world has way too many places that accept rude and mean behavior.

I love UU and really respect how it has been operated in an open dignified manner with good core values.

Link
07-20-2009, 02:13 PM
The world has way too many places that accept rude and mean behavior.

I love UU and really respect how it has been operated in an open dignified manner with good core values.
Word! .

Raygf
07-20-2009, 02:19 PM
:shaka: Thank you to all of our moderators! :shaka:

Regards,
Ray

leftovermagic84
07-20-2009, 02:36 PM
As one of the beginners on the board I really appreciate the mods here. Its a tough job to keep such a clean house, even in such a friendly community as this one. I've never seen a forum anywhere that is so diverse as far as skill level, and I think that's primarily because of the moderators' hard work. Nobody has to be afraid of getting chewed out for asking a beginner question, even in the presence of giants. Thank you for all your work in the community!:shaka:

Dominator
07-20-2009, 03:21 PM
I'm a fairly recent contributor to this forum, having been a regular on Ukulele Cosmos & its predecessor;

Hi John, I too was a somewhat regular participant at Ukulele Cosmos but have not visited there for a very long time. One of the threads got so far out of line that I decided it wasn't the kind of place for me. I'm perfectly happy with the job the mods are doing here at UU. Definatley not a job I would want to have to do. I don't think a "sin bin" would fit in the neighborhood.

I know you like a spirited debate and you are good at it. I don't recall a single time where you ever crossed the line in the process. Like I said, you are good at it and I enjoy reading all your posts.

BTW, do you still have your Skype account?

pithaya9
07-20-2009, 05:44 PM
Thank you Mods. Great job!

uke552
07-20-2009, 06:05 PM
Thank you Mods. Great job!


Amen! This is a great website and I'm proud to belong with all you good folks!

Ukulele JJ
07-20-2009, 06:10 PM
I couldn't find the original Penny Arcade image in a timely manner, but here you go:

Yay! I <heart> Penny Arcade!

JJ

P.S. Yes, the mods here rock!

bbycrts
07-20-2009, 06:23 PM
Yay for our mods!

haolejohn
07-20-2009, 06:26 PM
One of my first threads on here was locked out by the mods protecting their sheep. I doidn't bother me. B/c I understood where rthey were coming from. The thread tat just got locked needed to be shut down. I was surprised it took so long. It was completely off topic and it turned into a four way debate. Funny thing is ny last thread to get locked contained some of. The same arguers taking thread off topic. I do enjoy reading these discussions though as long as they stay clean. I like the job our mods do. However shouldn't this thread be in the general section? Unless......

What kind oif uke should I get next?

wearymicrobe
07-20-2009, 06:50 PM
Hi John, I too was a somewhat regular participant at Ukulele Cosmos but have not visited there for a very long time.

+1 here. I admit UU has been extremely well moderated. Ukulele's attract a "unusual" group of people its to be expected that you will find conflict.

Personally I try, though not always successfully, to stay out of the political threads as I am a ragging evil republican and need to be righned back.
It also urks me for ukes to disappear off of FMM that I want and then show up here for 150-200% more, which I fight in my own funny way off the board.

Cosmos lived then died on its moderation. And the UU has been much much better. I expect a long long life my experiance going back to the dialup BBS from way back in the day.

itsme
07-20-2009, 07:31 PM
I got publicly slammed by seeso for saying I thought someome sounded like a spoiled brat. He later sent a PM saying sorry for coming down so hard on me.

Hey, whatever. If this has to be the land of happy-happy joy-joy where we can only think happy thoughts and say nice things, then I'll just shut my mouth. I don't want to get wished into the cornfield.

I've actually been enjoying the camaraderie immensely. I won my uke in a drawing, it was like a lark at first. But UU has really made it something I want to pursue. I feel at home here.

And for the record, I admin a forum that is much larger than UU. Probably the hardest part of the job is what I call "herding cats" or trying to keep the moderators in step with the forum rules.

"Are you a pompous ass by choice, or should I blame your parents?"

In my book, statements like that just don't fly coming from a moderator or even a regular member. Sorry, seeso, but I think you need to learn to bite your tongue a bit when it comes to your mod duties. You quoted me some rule about not being a jerk. Well, that post made you look like a total jerk.

Overall, though, I think UU is well managed and moderated. :)

petah
07-20-2009, 07:38 PM
"GOLDEN RULE: DON'T BE A JERK
...

No member bashing
No artist bashing
...
Try not to post offensive things
Help your fellow underground members grow in their musical journeys.
...

Big one. If you are already a seasoned pro on the ukulele. Check your Ego at the door. This is a community for beginners to have fun learning and for Uke Pros to "pay it forward" and pass on their knowledge. Lets not forget that we were all beginners once and how grateful we were when someone who teach us a few chords or a song."

When things get heated they get out of control and on some level violate the above rules. Plus I'm tired of watching peoples E-PEENs grow.

lefty dan
07-20-2009, 07:43 PM
Why dont you get your own site and be a moderator so you can run it as you like. People can join or not.
As for this site, I love it just the way it is. Thanks to all that work so hard on it.

Bratset
07-20-2009, 09:11 PM
Yay for our mods!

Hear hear



"Are you a pompous ass by choice, or should I blame your parents?"

In my book, statements like that just don't fly coming from a moderator or even a regular member. Sorry, seeso, but I think you need to learn to bite your tongue a bit when it comes to your mod duties. You quoted me some rule about not being a jerk. Well, that post made you look like a total jerk.


Someone had to say it... Everyone says something sometimes that may seem harsh, no one is perfect (no not even the mods)

itsme
07-20-2009, 09:51 PM
Someone had to say it... Everyone says something sometimes that may seem harsh, no one is perfect no not even the mods
Maybe on your forum it would be acceptable for a mod to call a member a "pompous ass" but not on mine.

But this is not my forum, so whatever.

nukealaily
07-20-2009, 10:23 PM
i love that film " the stepford wives"

casetone2514
07-20-2009, 10:26 PM
I love the Ukulele Underground Forum because it is almost exclusively inhabited by really nice people.

I think the moderators do an admirable job.

The internet - NO, the world - would be a much better place if we all followed one commandment:

Be Nice!

Now, can we get back to what we were talking about?

Ahnko Honu
07-20-2009, 10:46 PM
I can't really add anything that hasn't already been said, and rather eloquently, I might add.

We moderators aren't perfect, though, so if you have a specific issue with how we conduct ourselves, feel free to send any one of us a PM.

Except Rayan, his mailbox is full. :D

buddhuu
07-20-2009, 10:46 PM
Maybe on your forum it would be acceptable for a mod to call a member a "pompous ass" but not on mine.

But this is not my forum, so whatever.

Go easy. :shaka:

Seeso is a gentleman. He decided for himself that his quip was inappropriate (even if some didn't agree) and he posted an apology, which was accepted.

Done. Finished. History.

jkevinwolfe
07-20-2009, 11:51 PM
There is good reason why this site has over 11,000 members. It's a fun playground and very seldom does someone go home with a bloody nose. It seem like on at least one other uke forums I have been on where there's no moderation, there are bullies and initiation rites for newbies. Bitterness should not be a prerequisite to join the mob. UU on the other hand is welcoming to all, extremely helpful and a fun place to be. After having met dozens of fellow posters here at the Ukulele World Congress I can honestly tell you that the typical poster here is someone you'd want to be friends with if you met them in person.

Mods are less like playground monitors than you think. When they scold or shut someone down it's not so much to follow strict rules, it's just to make sure everyone is having fun. The mods donate many hours to keeping this a happy place and should be commended. They have to make a lot of judgement calls which I think come more from the spirit of the rules. Sure there's an occasional bad call, but even the mods moderate themselves on those. I like this playground.

dominicfoundthemooon
07-21-2009, 12:35 AM
ummm the mods are all my BFF's! i love them! but for real.. they put in tons of work.. work for free.. they give out tips and do way more good than any harm. i am not sure who would not like seeso, ryan, AG, or any of the mods...

i think the best MOD of all is DEACH...

hold on.. he is not a MOD is he... jk jk

love for the mods form me!!

d

Bratset
07-21-2009, 12:37 AM
ummm the mods are all my BFF's! i love them! but for real.. they put in tons of work.. work for free.. they give out tips and do way more good than any harm. i am not sure who would not like seeso, ryan, AG, or any of the mods...


Indeed! :shaka:

mrUKETOBER
07-21-2009, 12:39 AM
ummm the mods are all my BFF's! i love them! but for real.. they put in tons of work.. work for free.. they give out tips and do way more good than any harm. i am not sure who would not like seeso, ryan, AG, or any of the mods...

i think the best MOD of all is DEACH...

hold on.. he is not a MOD is he... jk jk

love for the mods form me!!

d


i agree completely ! its not easy being an admin ! i am on a different kind of site and its hard work for free.. they are doing their jobs and are excellent people ! i love uu ! and i love the mods ! thank you for being here mods !

ukantor
07-21-2009, 01:38 AM
I'm glad I started this thread. It has brought an overwhelming vote of confidence for the way this forum is managed. Giving people what they want, and having your efforts appreciated, is a good thing.

:shaka:

Ukantor.

ukeshale
07-21-2009, 01:48 AM
I'm glad I started this thread. It has brought an overwhelming vote of confidence for the way this forum is managed. Giving people what they want, and having your efforts appreciated, is a good thing.

:shaka:

Ukantor.

Indeed. We all really appreciate the mod's efforts here and this has brought that to light :shaka: :cheers:

whetu
07-21-2009, 02:02 AM
It seem like on at least one other uke forums I have been on where there's no moderation, there are bullies and initiation rites for newbies. Bitterness should not be a prerequisite to join the mob. UU on the other hand is welcoming to all, extremely helpful and a fun place to be. After having met dozens of fellow posters here at the Ukulele World Congress I can honestly tell you that the typical poster here is someone you'd want to be friends with if you met them in person.

QFT. In fact, this is a QFT that makes me feel patriotic, of all things! :shaka:

*wipes a tear and tells himself that these uke colours do NOT run*

Melissa82
07-21-2009, 02:09 AM
The thing about the internet is that you can express your thoughts and opinions much easier. A lot of people say "Oh, I'd totally say that to the person in real life" but is that really so true? Are you telling me that if you were in a social group out in a public place and you didn't like something said, you'd call them out in front of everyone? If so, you must be one of those people who like to start fist fights or something. I don't like a lot of things that I hear but I keep it to myself. Why start useless drama? If you don't have anything else better to do, maybe you need to be practicing your uke a bit more or get some other hobby to occupy your time.

The internet is a hard place to distinguish how someone is going to react to your comments. Sure, they say that if you are going to be online, you need to have a thick skin, you need to be able to take criticism and rude comments. But really, why? Why can't we just have a nice, peaceful place?

As the old saying goes: "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it all."

Bratset
07-21-2009, 02:20 AM
The internet is a hard place to distinguish how someone is going to react to your comments. Sure, they say that if you are going to be alone, you need to have a thick skin, you need to be able to take criticism and rude comments. But really, why? Why can't we just have a nice, peaceful place?


Yeah!
and the worst thing about some of the rude comments and insult around the web are that many of them arn't insults at all!
Like on Youtube, how man tie have I not seen someone type; "oooo you're so gay". How is that an insult realy? it's nothing more of an insult than what someone make of it..
It realy annoys me that "nerd" and "gay" etc have become insult on the web..
well well.. that's my thoughs,

whetu
07-21-2009, 02:35 AM
Yay! I <heart> Penny Arcade!

JJ

P.S. Yes, the mods here rock!

I've hearted penny arcade, xkcd and cyanide and happiness (http://www.explosm.net/comics/1739/) (amongst others) for some time now. The thing that had me in tears from my post was the second drama llama link (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v614/Bealzabuth/DramaLlama.jpg) though. Seeing a few forum threads dissolve into really personal, passionate yet nonsensical decrees like that... you can't help but crack up :D Maybe it's more of a sarcastic somethingawful response... I dunno...


i love that film " the stepford wives"

lol lmfao roflgargle :D seriously though mate, great aussie wit :D

Melissa82
07-21-2009, 02:39 AM
I've hearted penny arcade, xkcd and cyanide and happiness (http://www.explosm.net/comics/1739/) (amongst others) for some time now. The thing that had me in tears from my post was the second drama llama link (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v614/Bealzabuth/DramaLlama.jpg) though. Seeing a few forum threads dissolve into really personal, passionate yet nonsensical decrees like that... you can't help but crack up :D Maybe it's more of a sarcastic somethingawful response... I dunno...Hahahaha, omg this fits an inside joke I have with someone so much.

http://www.explosm.net/db/files/Comics/guest4/Dropkulture.jpg

seeso
07-21-2009, 03:08 AM
"Are you a pompous ass by choice, or should I blame your parents?"

In my book, statements like that just don't fly coming from a moderator or even a regular member. Sorry, seeso, but I think you need to learn to bite your tongue a bit when it comes to your mod duties. You quoted me some rule about not being a jerk. Well, that post made you look like a total jerk.)

You're absolutely right. I admit, I can be a jerk sometimes.

RevWill
07-21-2009, 03:30 AM
You're absolutely right. I admit, I can be a jerk sometimes.

We all can.

Your public apology is there for all to see. Kudos for stepping up.

I made a big jerk of myself several years ago while I was moderating a very different forum. I also made a public apology to the fellow with whom I was bickering, and we even emailed each other during difficult times to offer support and prayers.

We're all human, even moderators. A certain level of grace should be expected of us all.

buddhuu
07-21-2009, 03:31 AM
Moderator = human = can be a jerk sometimes.

Board member = human = can be a jerk sometimes.

Everyone = human = can be a jerk sometimes.

buddhuu
07-21-2009, 03:32 AM
Wow, RevWill... Near telepathic cross posting! :D

ukantor
07-21-2009, 04:52 AM
Spooky!

JC.

BrotherUke
07-21-2009, 05:53 AM
You're absolutely right. I admit, I can be a jerk sometimes.

All good souls have a wart or two.... your's is no different... which is good my friend

Lori
07-21-2009, 06:07 AM
This site only works for me as long as it stays fun. All it takes is someone making an attack on another member to ruin it for everyone who was following that thread. Tone is everything when you are posting. And things can come off harsher than you realize. For all of those who think they can convince someone that they are "wrong" about something in a forum post... I would suggest they read the famous book "How to Win Friends and Influence People" first. If more people read that book, I think it would be a better world. I enjoy intelligent discussion, and I like to learn new things, but I don't like slug-fests.

–Lori

rossjr
07-21-2009, 06:47 AM
I am an adminstrator (Moderator) at a site for plastic models so I've seen a lot of things. From my perspective the Mods here do a fantastic job. We have had contraversy here and I think the line that is drawn is to keep civil and to the point, when it becomes a personal attack it's gone too far.

I think a great example is the thread about someone that had bought a second hand instrument and was not satisfied with it. We had a lot of banter about who is responsible for what, but in the end the manufacturer stepped in and took care of it.

The someone's house analogy is perfect, you don't have to agree with everything everyone comments about here, but be an adult and be civil and there's no reason we can't work through anything!

Remember good fences make for good neighbors...

Great job Mods!!!

mrUKETOBER
07-21-2009, 06:56 AM
i actually find the mods here are wayyyy cooler and mellow and patient than anywhere else.. i know if it were at the site i mod at .. lol im a harsh mod hahah if you break the rules and i see it its game time ! lol but the mods here are very fair and layed back and i love it ! i love UU ! this community rocks my freakin socks !!!

bbycrts
07-21-2009, 09:05 AM
Remember that our mods are volunteers who also have an interest in the ukulele as well. I would far prefer see their human mistakes in the interest of allowing them to participate fully in the fun and folly of this fantastic community. If the mods had to check their personalities at the door in favor of moderating, we would all be the poorer for it.

pink flamingo
07-21-2009, 09:48 AM
but...but this is an ukulele forum. How could anybody ever be mean on a ukulele forum?They are so cuddle, wee and cute.
They are the kittens of musical instruments. Sure you can strangle someone with a harp or misuse a trombone but an ukulele...I think a concert delux kamaka once was nominated for a Nobel peace prize.

Dirka
07-21-2009, 09:52 AM
but...but this is an ukulele forum. How could anybody ever be mean on a ukulele forum?They are so cuddle, wee and cute.
They are the kittens of musical instruments. Sure you can strangle someone with a harp or misuse a trombone but an ukulele...I think a concert delux kamaka once was nominated for a Nobel peace prize.

Methinks the appropriate response to that would be :smileybounce:

Ahnko Honu
07-21-2009, 10:22 AM
I was one of the founding members to a forum I belonged to for over 6 years. The original owners of forum were the moderators and in the early days personal attacks were not tolerated, and offending members were booted after 3 warnings and not allowed to return under any other names. After 4 years the original owners then started selecting others to moderate and these new moderators were such total weenies that when abusive nOObs started showing up and attacking others while at the same time offering absolutely nothing positive these new moderators would do NOTHING to stop these personal attacks not even a warning so a once informative forum turned into a hate-fest and most of the original members myself included left the forum. I would much rather have a moderator leaning towards strict policing than being totally lax and this forum turn into a unpleasant mess my last forum wound up becoming. Yes people are imperfect and make mistakes, and it takes a real man (or woman ;)) to fess up to a mistake especially in public. I feel the moderators here are very balanced and fair, though not prefect, but who is.

"Let the one of YOU that is sinless be the first to throw a stone" John 8:7

AnnaUK
07-21-2009, 10:51 AM
All the mods here are fantastic, and this is probably my fav website now.

I'm getting an idea for a "Ukulele Underground Is Great" song ha ha ha :D

whetu
07-21-2009, 11:43 AM
I would suggest they read the famous book "How to Win Friends and Influence People" first. If more people read that book, I think it would be a better world.

Or, if you don't want to read that book I can save you some time and summarise it:

Treat others how you want to be treated yourself.

Oh, and engage in some low level social engineering to get karma rolling your way.

:)

iamdanielle
07-21-2009, 02:20 PM
I think the mods to a wonderful job here. I have never felt comfortable joining a forum before I discovered UU because most of the ones I had checked out had so many nasty people and it really did not feel like a community at all. I feel really "at home" here at UU and I know I mostly have the mods to thank for that.. The fact that most ukulele players are extremely kind and supportive doesn't hurt either. :)

I LOVE YOU GUYS.

Boozelele
07-21-2009, 03:36 PM
All the mods here are fantastic :D

Except for Seeso and GrumpyCoyote, those guys are total jerks (TCASI).....oh wait sorry...I take that back......I was just kidding!!!!

All together now!!!!! Kumbaya Ma Lord....Kumbaya......:cool:

Ukuleleblues
07-21-2009, 03:49 PM
The mods do a great job here. I "found" Uke Cosmos a while back and folks were calling each other C**kS**kers and stuff. I posted a question there and this one guy starts giving me a bunch of crap. I hardly evey even look there anymore. In fact it looks like a lot of folks have dropped contributing. No moderation. This forum is really nice, fits the type of personality that I've seen that the uke folks I've met have.

You know if I want to get insulted or listen to a buch of crap I'll just go visit my inlaw or relatives :D

DeG
07-21-2009, 03:55 PM
The mods do a great job here. I "found" Uke Cosmos a while back and folks were calling each other C**kS**kers...

What's wrong with that? I have often sought out someone who could whip me up something tasty for dinner.. so I guess I have been a cook seeker myself...:confused:


:D

UkeNinja
07-21-2009, 05:11 PM
This should teach you not to use the Windows Speech option to read websites out loud. It was probably about wine making (http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/180744/). And heaven knows we are talking about an important aspect of the wine-making process here.

nukealaily
07-21-2009, 06:21 PM
the guys from Uke Cosmos know eachother on a personal level to be able to call eachother the worst names imaginable without causing offence . on a site like that , it is normal and expected that people will just behave as they would in any normal situation when they are with friends . In the UK , it is normal to act that way - cultural info .

Uke cosmos is ran by , and frequented mainly by british folk , so one would have to expect to behave like you are in a british persons house , which means making yourself at home by drinking tea , putting your feet up onto the table whilst you call the owner a dikhead - lol

Bratset
07-21-2009, 07:10 PM
Except for Seeso and GrumpyCoyote, those guys are total jerks (TCASI).....oh wait sorry...I take that back......I was just kidding!!!!

All together now!!!!! Kumbaya Ma Lord....Kumbaya......:cool:

hehe :rotfl:

seeso
07-21-2009, 09:39 PM
That's enough about the Cosmos, guys. Thanks.

NukeDOC
07-22-2009, 06:45 AM
*takes moderator super power ring off*

get the eff outa here. you gotta be kidding me... did member 1 really bash member 2 because member 1 got butthurt about member 2 calling them names? after member 1 called someone else names? even after member 2 apologized?

member 1 stated that member 2 apologized. but member 1 still gave member 2 a public bashing after the fact? and then did it again?

look i dont know who you are or where you are from or anything about you really. but that was a total d*ck move. and for the record, im not being a jerk here. and im not even trying to defend anyone here. member 2 is a big boy that can handle his own. im just calling it like i see it.

*puts moderator super power ring back on*
as far as my duties as being a moderator, this isnt the first forum ive moderated. and to be honest, i dont care what anyone thinks about how badly i do my job. not saying anyone has. and im not saying that i think i do a bad job, because i think i do a pretty damn good one. no one is perfect though. and its not even like its a job that any of us get paid for... nope not even perks. so theres no reason for any of us mods to power trip either (how stupid does that make you look when you think you actually have some sort of power over people on an internet forum???). when/if i need to make a move, ill make it. plain and simple. not because i want to silence you. but because I WOULD RATHER NOT HAVE TO DO THE EXTRA WORK KEEPING A FORUM IN LINE WHEN YOU ALL SHOULD BE ADULT ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO DO IT YOURSELVES WITHOUT PULLING ME OUT OF MY ALREADY BUSY DAY. i would rather channel that energy toward deleting spam messages on the boards.

for the record: i am not here to be a moderator. i am here because of the ukulele. i was asked to be a moderator. i did not pursue it. i did it because of how much i believed in this site. but in the end... im still just another member just like any of you. nothing special.
*removes moderator super power ring again and reverts back to mild mannered arvin the ukulele player*

salukulady
07-22-2009, 07:08 AM
If PattyD was talking about my post in the Tanizaki thread, I feel bad about it. I apologized.You are a better man than I, seeso.

lisaxy424
07-22-2009, 08:51 AM
*removes moderator super power ring again and reverts back to mild mannered arvin the ukulele player*

I heard if you look straight into the ring, you can see your ukulele's future...

sukie
07-22-2009, 08:52 AM
I heard if you look straight into the ring, you can see your ukulele's future...

Too funny, LisaXY!:rofl:

salukulady
07-22-2009, 11:16 AM
I heard if you look straight into the ring, you can see your ukulele's future...but it may completely throw the time continuum out of whack.....avert your eyes!

ichadwick
07-22-2009, 11:58 AM
I run a forum myself and I can attest to how easily and how quickly an initially polite conversation can digress into an ugly flamefest, even among previously friendly and cooperative members. Hell, I'm guilty of jumping into a pissing match here myself. It's easy to do when your only method of communication is by text alone.

Some other things to consider (from my perspective):

We communicate as a species through a wide range of social, cultural and physical clues that are as important and as relevant to a conversation as the words themselves. A shrug, a smile, a lift of the eyebrow can say as much if not more than a sentence. Subtle body language clues, pheromones, closeness, gestures, the perceived age and wisdom of the speaker, and the environment all contribute to how we react and respond in the real world. We have none of those in a forum. Just words. Smilies (emoticons) don't substitute.

Without those other clues, words and language take on an exacerbated importance. A tongue-in-cheek post can be read as an insult or a challenge without the other indicators to soften it or explain it. Taking offence for minor things, especially humour, is common on forums. It's hard to defuse situations, too, because that also requires nonverbal communication to be most effective.

We devolve to our limbic, reptilian selves when posting online. It is almost impossible to have a civilized, or polite debate about issues that have emotional connections on any forum: politics, sex, religion, social issues, abortion, healthcare are almost guaranteed to start a flamefest anywhere (so is some of the content of this post, I might add).

The vast majority of people who post on any forum can't spell, don't know the difference between you're and your or its and it's, think the shift key on a keyboard is a useless decoration, the apostrophe is an alien symbol and have a limited vocabulary that descends into crude invective when the forum filters allow. In a text-oriented environment like this, where the written word takes on such exaggerated significance and supersedes any other form of communication, people who are already linguistically and grammatically challenged easily react with inappropriate aggression over any perceived slight. In part it's because without good linguistic skills to guide them, in the environment of a text-based forum they can't communicate effectively. That leads to anger, frustration and aggression.

We are not generally trained in debate, argument or logic. Most of us aren't lawyers, newspaper editors, politicians, philosophers or social advocates. We don't have the experience, skills or training to debate in the way we often get into here. Most people have little if any education in critical thinking or academic debate, so we tend not to analyze a statement as well as we should: we respond to it, then think about it later (how many of us have read something in a post, responded angrily, then later regretted our impulsive reaction?).

We have the trait of jumping into the mud pit and fragging one another when the opportunity avails itself, sometimes just to relieve our own personal tensions and boredom. But sometimes we do it without realizing it.

Forums are a meeting place of a wide range of ages, social skills, backgrounds, talents, languages - but none of us can tell from text alone anything about the poster. We don't know the age, sex, education or employment of the poster. Adults can get drawn into a nasty argument with someone and later find out we've been debating an issue with a twelve-year-old. Or the assumed persona of the person we've been debating turns out to be entirely artificial and we get confused, off-kilter and distressed (when that septuagenarian Hassidic rabbi you think you've been exchanging barbs with over the Israeli-Palestinian conflict turns out to be a bored 16-year-old American kid who's just trolling for fun).

Controversy is great fun. But it's easy to find online. Finding politeness, courtesy and friendliness is more difficult. Finding those PLUS widespread good language skills is the Holy grail of forum searches. I'm convinced many people who failed in this quest turned to blogging for an outlet.

And finally, put a bunch of people in a room, stuff a ukulele in everyone's arms, put a pint of beer on the table in front of them, and not only do people stop arguing, they start making music together. That has nothing to do with the points above, merely connects the thread to the ukulele theme to avoid the moderators' wrath. It's a lot better to make music with a ukulele than to fight in a ukulele forum.

salukulady
07-22-2009, 12:07 PM
"And finally, put a bunch of people in a room, stuff a ukulele in everyone's arms, put a pint of beer on the table in front of them, and not only do people stop arguing, they start making music together. That has nothing to do with the points above, merely connects the thread to the ukulele theme to avoid the moderators' wrath. It's a lot better to make music with a ukulele than to fight in a ukulele forum."



AMEN

Boozelele
07-22-2009, 12:33 PM
Ian Chadwick should win the award for the best forum post ever. Seriously...well said Ian.

ukantor
07-22-2009, 12:47 PM
Hey Chadwick - who are you calling a reptile?:mad:

It's not easy being green.:D

John C.

Ukuleleblues
07-22-2009, 04:45 PM
A guy attends a retreat once a year at the monastery. For 4 weeks there is total abstinence from talking, just prayer and contemplation. At the last dinner, one person is selected to say a few words by the elder Monk. The first year the appointee arises and says, “The food here is great” and sits down.

The next year he attends and there is 4 weeks of abstinence from talking, just prayer and contemplation. At the last dinner another person is selected to say a few words. He arises and says “The food here is horrible”. The elder Monk jumps up from the table and exclaims “If this arguing doesn’t stop….."

haolejohn
07-22-2009, 06:16 PM
I run a forum myself and I can attest to how easily and how quickly an initially polite conversation can digress into an ugly flamefest, even among previously friendly and cooperative members. Hell, I'm guilty of jumping into a pissing match here myself. It's easy to do when your only method of communication is by text alone.

Some other things to consider (from my perspective):

We communicate as a species through a wide range of social, cultural and physical clues that are as important and as relevant to a conversation as the words themselves. A shrug, a smile, a lift of the eyebrow can say as much if not more than a sentence. Subtle body language clues, pheromones, closeness, gestures, the perceived age and wisdom of the speaker, and the environment all contribute to how we react and respond in the real world. We have none of those in a forum. Just words. Smilies (emoticons) don't substitute.

Without those other clues, words and language take on an exacerbated importance. A tongue-in-cheek post can be read as an insult or a challenge without the other indicators to soften it or explain it. Taking offence for minor things, especially humour, is common on forums. It's hard to defuse situations, too, because that also requires nonverbal communication to be most effective.

We devolve to our limbic, reptilian selves when posting online. It is almost impossible to have a civilized, or polite debate about issues that have emotional connections on any forum: politics, sex, religion, social issues, abortion, healthcare are almost guaranteed to start a flamefest anywhere (so is some of the content of this post, I might add).

The vast majority of people who post on any forum can't spell, don't know the difference between you're and your or its and it's, think the shift key on a keyboard is a useless decoration, the apostrophe is an alien symbol and have a limited vocabulary that descends into crude invective when the forum filters allow. In a text-oriented environment like this, where the written word takes on such exaggerated significance and supersedes any other form of communication, people who are already linguistically and grammatically challenged easily react with inappropriate aggression over any perceived slight. In part it's because without good linguistic skills to guide them, in the environment of a text-based forum they can't communicate effectively. That leads to anger, frustration and aggression.

We are not generally trained in debate, argument or logic. Most of us aren't lawyers, newspaper editors, politicians, philosophers or social advocates. We don't have the experience, skills or training to debate in the way we often get into here. Most people have little if any education in critical thinking or academic debate, so we tend not to analyze a statement as well as we should: we respond to it, then think about it later (how many of us have read something in a post, responded angrily, then later regretted our impulsive reaction?).

We have the trait of jumping into the mud pit and fragging one another when the opportunity avails itself, sometimes just to relieve our own personal tensions and boredom. But sometimes we do it without realizing it.

Forums are a meeting place of a wide range of ages, social skills, backgrounds, talents, languages - but none of us can tell from text alone anything about the poster. We don't know the age, sex, education or employment of the poster. Adults can get drawn into a nasty argument with someone and later find out we've been debating an issue with a twelve-year-old. Or the assumed persona of the person we've been debating turns out to be entirely artificial and we get confused, off-kilter and distressed (when that septuagenarian Hassidic rabbi you think you've been exchanging barbs with over the Israeli-Palestinian conflict turns out to be a bored 16-year-old American kid who's just trolling for fun).

Controversy is great fun. But it's easy to find online. Finding politeness, courtesy and friendliness is more difficult. Finding those PLUS widespread good language skills is the Holy grail of forum searches. I'm convinced many people who failed in this quest turned to blogging for an outlet.

And finally, put a bunch of people in a room, stuff a ukulele in everyone's arms, put a pint of beer on the table in front of them, and not only do people stop arguing, they start making music together. That has nothing to do with the points above, merely connects the thread to the ukulele theme to avoid the moderators' wrath. It's a lot better to make music with a ukulele than to fight in a ukulele forum.

This is the reason that I will never try to debate with Ian.:)

Well said. How many drafts did you create in making this post?

GrumpyCoyote
07-22-2009, 06:45 PM
I've been quietly watching this thread (some amazingly good posts in here...)- and honestly I don't have much to add except a simple reminder.

The way this forum is moderated is not about keeping open and honest discourse in some "happy thoughts only" place. It's not about squashing anyone's opinion or keeping things squeaky clean.

It's about respect.

When threads degenerate into disrespect - or seem to be headed that way, we step in. That's pretty much it.

So feel free to disagree, be contrary, argue your face off - but do so with respect for your fellow members and this community.

It is when that respect line is crossed that (as nukeDoc so eloquently put it) we mods are forced to step in. We don't want to moderate threads - and we are not here as censors. We are here to keep things respectful.

As sesso put it, sometimes we make mistakes, and we can't be everywhere - so give us a hand and keep that basic principle in mind before you post - "respect each other".

Thanks for all the support folks.

Pippin
07-22-2009, 08:39 PM
We are not generally trained in debate, argument or logic. Most of us aren't lawyers, newspaper editors, politicians, philosophers or social advocates. We don't have the experience, skills or training to debate in the way we often get into here.


Several years ago US News & World Report had an article about education or the lack of it. Sadly, they reported that the "average professional" in America, doctors, lawyers, engineers, even educators, read and wrote at eight-grade level. These "professionals" are considered among the educationally elite in our society, yet, they are largely inept when it comes to written communication.

Add to that the emotional issues that many people CAN exhibit, especially those insecure people that often engage in flame-wars, and you could easily understand that the work of a moderator is never done on a busy forum.

To what Ian said about writing quality, there is a forum of writers known as "Write This" that has a healthy populace of free-lancers and wannabees. You might take a look at it. I am in total agreement with your observation.

For my part, I have to say that I do believe that UU has some of the best MODS I have seen. Nice work, guys.

whetu
07-22-2009, 08:53 PM
Several years ago US News & World Report had an article about education or the lack of it. Sadly, they reported that the "average professional" in America, doctors, lawyers, engineers, even educators, read and wrote at eight-grade level. These "professionals" are considered among the educationally elite in our society, yet, they are largely inept when it comes to written communication.

oh dear... the movie 'Idiocracy' just got even more prophetic for me :eek:

Brought to you by Carl Jrs.
(little joke for those who've seen it)

SamWise
07-22-2009, 09:26 PM
I've been ten years posting on forums, and in that time, I've had two posts moderated, one completely reasonably when I lost my rag in an innappropriate way (I was on my way back to delete it when someone did it for me), and once in a completely unreasonable way, for disagreeing very politely with a guy I assumed to be a 15 year old, who turned out to be in his 40's, and to be the forum owner. It's not hard to stay within the boundaries.

UU moderation is indeed some of the best I've seen. It's generally respectful, and I've never seen it go over the top. What really makes the mods here stand out is the extra effort they go to to help people, especially new people. They don't simply act like policemen or dinner ladies, they take it as their responsibility to make visiting the underground and playing the uke a really positive thing for people. Nobody I know about does more than Seeso to help new players out on here, for instance. That's just one of the things that makes this such a culturally nice place to be, where people generally understand that what's expected of them is to be supportive and nice where possible, and respectful at the minimum. I like that a lot.

ichadwick
07-23-2009, 01:13 AM
I should have added (but digressed as I am wont to do) that being a moderator is generally a thankless job that people do because they care, not for any semblance of power or authority. It's a volunteer job in a digital world where your efforts are often as fleeting as the posts themselves but the grief can build up like plaque on your teeth.

Moderators on my forum get lots of PMs and email about issues, complaints, questions, and it consumes their private as well as social lives to do it. Good mods read just about every post on a forum, scan through threads, check potential flash points, and also post their own responses. Without mods, sysops like me couldn't handle the work of a typical forum. It's a lot of work and we should be thankful for them.

So like many of you, I try to show some respect for them when they poke me because I've gone onto a rant or veered egregiously off-topic. I always try to remember that when a mod steps in to remind me of things, that it's me, not them whose has gone astray. Respect the mods and they will generally give you the leeway you need when something gets a bit tenuous and you're in the crossing-the-line zone.

I was a mod myself, by the way, back on CompuServe and Delphi in the mid-1980s and ran my own Atari BBS from my bedroom. That was in the days of 300 baud dial-up. Ah, the memories... can't say I was good at it, but it did teach me to recognize those who were.

And in response: it only took one draft to write the last post - but I wrote it a work, jumping back and forth between it and customers, the phone and delivery guys for about two hours before I clicked submit. I'm one of those people I mentioned who turned to blogging, by the way...

ichadwick
07-23-2009, 01:28 AM
...they reported that the "average professional" in America, doctors, lawyers, engineers, even educators, read and wrote at eight-grade level.
I've read similar reports and think they're generally taken out of context. Pick up any engineering, legal or medical magazine and try to wade through the articles. They're pretty dense for the average layperson and far above our educational level.

Most professionals write well within their own disciplines. But in day-to-day writing, these people may not be as erudite or as grammatically sound. That's why we have editors.

Some of the staff we have in my town can speak volumes and detail about infrastructure, the legalities of the Municipal Act, the intricacies of a water sharing agreement, the nature of zoning and Official Plan amanedments - but they can't punctuate a compound sentence with accuracy. Yet each one of them has more courses, training and degrees than most of us have. Doesn't mean they're not educated, just that their educational focus was tighter than those from a liberal arts background. And by no means are they illiterate - our lawyer can parse a contract easily while I wallow through the lush forest of words trying to find a path to clarity.

Like I said, that's why we have editors. As a former book, magazine and newspaper editor I can tell you that editors are for print the unsung heroes that moderators are for digital media. If you think the news is clear and concise, thank an editor, not the police media spokesperson or the politician or the lawyer who's prosecuting the case - it's the editor who makes their words into something the public can understand.

salukulady
07-23-2009, 01:33 AM
Ian, is that a Kliban cat in your avatar? Do you ever sleep?

Bratset
07-23-2009, 01:37 AM
[INDENT]
I've read similar reports and think they're generally taken out of context. Pick up any engineering, legal or medical magazine and try to wade through the articles. They're pretty dense for the average layperson and far above our educational level.

Most professionals write well within their own disciplines. But in day-to-day writing, these people may not be as erudite or as grammatically sound. That's why we have editors.


Indeed, I love reading stuff like that and then to research what I don't know already.
When I had aschool project about the lifesyclus of stars last year at school I got so into it that I'm still reading stuff of NASA etc, and helping people two years above me with assigments about it. It realy stuck to my head and I learn loads of fancy words that most people dont know :)

Ahnko Honu
07-23-2009, 05:36 AM
Ian, is that a Kliban cat in your avatar? Do you ever sleep?

And is he singing one of my favorite songs "Love to eat them mousies"? :D

salukulady
07-23-2009, 05:48 AM
love to eat them mousies
mousies what I love to eat
bite their little heads off
nibble on their tiny feet

Ahnko Honu
07-23-2009, 06:26 AM
He's playing a 6 string Kamaka by the way.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/Ahnkochee/GIFs/KlibanMousies-1.jpg

salukulady
07-23-2009, 06:32 AM
I had the lyrics a little off, but my memory goes back to when I was 12.

Sleeping cats resemble a meatloaf with a tail.

Lori
07-23-2009, 06:35 AM
He's playing a 6 string Kamaka by the way.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/Ahnkochee/GIFs/KlibanMousies-1.jpg
Ian's avatar is clearly playing a 4 string in a boat! He would be singing about fish, not mice!:rolleyes:

–Lori

salukulady
07-23-2009, 06:36 AM
maybe Ian's is not a Kliban cat........wake up, Ian!

ichadwick
07-23-2009, 10:54 AM
Ian, is that a Kliban cat in your avatar? Do you ever sleep?
Answers: Yes and yes (well, sometimes. I can often be found in front of the computer in the wee small hours fragging things like Zombies in left 4 Dead or sending minions on a rampage in Overlord II or throwing grenades at some hapless enemy in Call of Duty... or posting scurrilous messages on UU).

The cat is from collection of Kliban cat cartoons. I have another Kliban cat with a banjo uke as well, used on another (*cough*cough*) ukulele forum.

Rubbertoe
07-23-2009, 12:11 PM
The vast majority of people who post on any forum can't spell, don't know the difference between you're and your or its and it's, think the shift key on a keyboard is a useless decoration, the apostrophe is an alien symbol and have a limited vocabulary that descends into crude invective when the forum filters allow.

Hear, hEAr! you're words are the truthfullest i've ever herd!

I blame the restrictions that are placed on teachers with failing students. Why aren't teachers allowed to hold a student back if he/she just isn't making the grade?

Oh, and rock n' roll music. I blame rock n' roll music to :p



septuagenarian

Excellent word use!

On a more serious note, I love this forum. The mods and staff do an exceptional job at maintaining this site as well as embracing and extending the spirit of Aloha that the ukulele is all about.

Pippin
07-23-2009, 09:05 PM
I've read similar reports and think they're generally taken out of context. Pick up any engineering, legal or medical magazine and try to wade through the articles. They're pretty dense for the average layperson and far above our educational level.

Most professionals write well within their own disciplines. But in day-to-day writing, these people may not be as erudite or as grammatically sound. That's why we have editors.


The key might be "average professional" as opposed to "published professional". I am an editor and publisher. I have seen some pretty poor written content. I publish a digital photography magazine and have published a computer network technology magazine among other pubs in the past and some of the brilliant computer weenies could code, but, they couldn't construct a sentence.

When my wife and I met, she was a writer in Cincinnati and had picturesque style, but she constructed some of the most complex sentences one could imagine. I gave her a copy of "Elements of Style", the Strunk & White classic. I started helping her simplify her prose and, today, she is better focused.