need help from the brilliant people here.

smithpaul60

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
251
Reaction score
2
Location
South Carolina
First you get what you pay for but.

Second
I measured out my Lanikai and found that even though it has a fretboard designed for a 14' scale uke. It actually has a scale length of 14.356' I became curious when i got out the tuner and checked the bad intonation on the 4th fret. Really noticeable on the C.

The only thing i can think of to help is to remove the bridge and re-glue closer to where it is suppose to go. However i don't have clamps that would work. AGHHH. :wallbash:


Ideas??
 
Here is an idea you might consider. I would add a block of wood, ideally the same kind of wood as the bridge, to the front edge of the bridge. Assuming normal dimensions it would be about 3/8" x 3/8" x 2.5". Cut a slot for the new saddle in the added piece and scrape away the finish on the top so you can glue the extra piece on both the bridge and top. You are adding extra mass to the bridge which won't help the sound, but at least it will play in tune this way.

Brad
 
STOP! Don't change a thing! If I understand you correctly, the distance from the nut to the 12th fret is 7" - but the distance from the 12th fret to the saddle is 7.356".

It is normal to have the bridge (saddle) slightly further from the 12th fret. This is known as compensation. It compensates for the fact that pressing down the strings to the finger board stretches them slightly, making them play sharp. The extra distance makes them play slightly flatter - hopefully just enough to put it right (or near enough). An extra .356" is more than I would build in to a soprano, but please think things through before deciding to modify your uke.

If it is playing flat at the 3rd/4th fret, that would suggest to me that all is not well, but you don't say which way the error is.

Forgive me if I've just stated the obvious, but I have no way of knowing how clued-up you are on this sort of thing, and a little knowledge can lead you astray.

John Colter.
 

don't worry I'm not touching it until i understand this thing thoroughly.

the distance from the nut to the 12th is 7.20' and from the 7th to the bridge is 7.15'

when i tune it and play the 5th fret it play sharp, it says +30 in my tuner at the 12th fret it is still plays sharp and the + ranges from +30 to -40 on the sharp note (ie: A plays -40 A#)

The only other thing is that there is a gap between the nut and the edge of the fret board. When I got the uke the gap was there I slid the nut up to the board. After a while (i got a precision ruler and a gap meter) i used the fret calculator on stew mac to put in at .75so now the gap has returned. it is 1mm wide.

It is a beater so i'm not terribly put out, and maybe i can use this to get my wife to let me buy another uke. (I have UAS bad)
 
If it's shorter from 12th fret to saddle than it is nut to 12th fret, it does sound like you have a problem. How is the action? If that's too high, especially at the saddle, that'll add to the problem too. It won't fix everything but it could help.

I'm assuming by what you say that it gets progressively sharper on all strings as you go up the neck, right? Chasing intonation problems is really tough and might make you want to give up and turn the thing into firewood. Depending on how the bridge is made (pics would help) and if everything else is perfect (nut problem fixed)you might be able to relocate the saddle slightly by gluing in a matching piece of wood in the bridge slot and re-routing a new saddle slot. That's pretty much what Bradford suggested, but I wouldn't go so far as to do anything more than fill the slot. It sounds like you'll want to lengthen the 12th fret to saddle distance to something slightly over the other measurement. If you're willing to make this a "test case" you can play around with "L" shaped saddle pieces and see what helps and what doesn't.

If you find that you can get the intonation right this way, you can either make the alteration permanent, or if you're really brave do a full Luthier job on it and remove/reglue the bridge in the new location and refinish the top. (not for the faint hearted)
 
Last edited:
Here's another thought:

Tune using the first fret, not the open string. Do your intonation measurements up the neck, ignoring the open string reference. This will take the nut out of the equation. If you can get things in tune except for the open strings, then your problem lies with the nut.

It may not fix it all, but it'll get you closer.
 
The answer to your question could be - its a Lanikai.

Taking it further, in addition to the fact that its a Lanikai, can you hear the intonation problems? If not, get rid of the tuner, and get a tuning fork.

As for scale length, 12th to the bridge could be shorter than 12th to the nut. However, 12th to the saddle should be about the same, or more, than 12th to the nut.

As for a fix - you could always compensate the saddle, which is what I do on all of mine. Hopefully you have a 1/8" saddle.

Really, all this work, you could buy a new one.

Also, what kind of strings do you have on? This is actually the first place you should look.

-Aaron
 
The answer to your question could be - its a Lanikai.

-Aaron

I agree, a good compensation job is going to cost 150$ if its that far out. 30 points is a heck of a fix at the 12th. You will have to buildout the back of the saddle or move the whole bridge at that point and be absolutely happy with the action and strings because you simply will not be ale to change them after that.
 
The answer to your question could be - its a Lanikai.

Taking it further, in addition to the fact that its a Lanikai, can you hear the intonation problems? If not, get rid of the tuner, and get a tuning fork.

True, but i didn't want to be the first to say it as I really don't know anything.

In answer to your question, yes I can hear the problems, I played a lot of finger picking style on guitar and that has transferred over to the uke now. It is easier to hear that way for me. You can still hear it in the open chords, especially G.

As for buying a new one, That is coming just not right now. I have some serious UAS but no $$. so it will have to wait. I don't plan on getting it fixed professionally so I'm not going to be spending a huge amount of money.
 
Let me do a more thoughtful analysis. Originally you said the scale length was supposed to be 14.00". However, you measured the distance from the nut to the 12th fret and said that was 7.20". That measurement would indicate a scale length of 14.4". Add 1/8" for compensation and the distance from the nut to the saddle should be 14.525". You say the actual distance is 14.35" and it plays sharp at the twelfth fret, which is what you would expect. It sounds like the saddle needs to be moved back, however let's not assume anything. Here is what the fret measurements should be for a 14.4" scale.
Fret 1 .80"
Fret 2 1.57"
Fret 3 2.29"
Fret 4 2.97"
Fret 5 3.61"
Fret 6 4.22"
Fret 7 4.79"
Fret 8 5.33"
Fret 9 5.84"
Fret 10 6.32"
Fret 11 6.77"
Fret 12 7.20"
So first of all, I would check to see how close these are to your uke. If they are all over the map, then you have a decoration, if they are pretty close then you can consider moving the saddle back and lowering the action.

Brad
 
Last edited:
Okay, I started from scratch

----Please throw out all numbers before this post----

Measurements:
14.4 scale Exactly!!!!! ( i must have missed measured)
12th fret = 7.2
all other numbers match bradfords numbers

action = 3mm from top of 12th fret
strings = currently HILO

still plays sharp on the higher frets, I assume this is because of the lack of compensation.

thank you all for ypur patience and instruction. hopefully we'll be able to laugh later. (although I don't blame you for laughing now)
 
Well then your are in pretty good shape. Depending on the width of your saddle, you may be able to add a little compensation. Or if necessary, widen the saddle slot and add a wider compensated saddle to bring it into tune.

Brad
 
Can we get a photo of the bridge/saddle setup as it is now? That might help determine the next step.
 
i got some pics but i'll have to upload them later, it is a standard uke bridge/saddle set up. No shaping other than a small bevel on both side that reminds me of a pen tip. "^" that is the shape of the top. Maybe i can order a different saddle that gives me a few mm's.

I've decided that i'm not going to do any "heavy" work. I'll probably just save up and buy that spalted maple ibanez.
 
I've decided that i'm not going to do any "heavy" work. I'll probably just save up and buy that spalted maple ibanez.

Okay, I'll guess that 3mm action is above the 12th, and the 14.4" is to the front of the saddle. Maybe some Worth strings (thinner guage) may help you out.

As for the Ibanez, you may be a push. Sorry, can't quantify that, but its just a hunch. Even with the Lanikai, at that price range, if an instrument that is measurably correct but has intonation issues that can be heard, you won't find compensated saddles until you reach the high end. That said, I would at least look for something that can be adjusted, meaning, stay away from the 3/32" or less saddles.

If your current saddle is down the middle, you could adjust it back, and throw on some higher tension strings to make up for the lower action.

Just my $.02 - Aaron
 
Possibly silly suggestion from a non-luthier.

If you slide the nut back up against the fretboard, do things improve? You said it gets sharp as you play higher, and this would reduce the nut-12th fret length. You said you'd measured to find where it should be, but I'd place it by ear!

The other possibility I can think of is that the nut slots are not cut deep enough. Conventional wisdom seems to be that a business card should fit (tightly but slideable) between 1st fret and strings. I've improved a cheap uk by cutting the nut deeper - a junior hacksaw blade works if you don't have the right file, but go slow and make sure the slot remains slanting down from the fretboard towards the pegs.
 
Top Bottom