Any Future as a Luthier?

A little background; I had an industrial injury back in early 2004 and 3 back surgeries and over 6 years of physical therapy later I will finally be able to start vocational rehabilitation in a couple months. My insurance provider will pay for any schooling. I have been a carpenter and woodworker pretty much my whole adult life, and I'm pushing 50. I have always wanted to build 'ukuleles, I believe I have the skills, I just need the knowledge. Since I'm on Oahu I was thinking the Hanalima 'Ia School. VR would also pay for any addition equipment I may need along with the schooling. Question is with current economy is it a worth while pursuit? I don't want to be rich by any means, I just want to be happy, and able to pay my bills, and be comfortable. Can this be done as a luthier, especially a luthier who has not made a name for himself yet?
My other options were computer CAD drawing , and Surveying. I prefer working with my hands and being outside of an office. Is this a stupid dream?
I am posting here so experienced luthiers who's majority income is from 'ukulele making can reply. Mahalo nui guys.

Uncle, Im sure it can be done.

With your skills building ukuleles wont be the hard part.

I may not be the one you want to answer this, but.

For what it is worth Im having a real hard go at it. All my money came out of my pocket, and now it is all gone. Ukuleles are here, but they need to be in someone elses hands, if you know what I mean.

The made in a factory in china ukueles make it a little hard for a me, being a new builder, the big names and low prices take a lot of the market. But I bet you will command a certain respect from the global market based on your location alone.

If someone else is gong to buy tools and send you to school, go for it. Are they going to buy you a stock of wood to accompany all of the logs you already have?

If nothing else you should make a few for yourself to see if you like it. Seems like you can never get enough of them.

Good luck whatever you do?


Thomas

Working full time as a luthier? It is a dream some of us live with a considerable amount of sacrifice and a partner who is working. It is rewarding and frustrating. The great thing you have going for you is location... I don't know how the economy is where you are but this is how my year has looked:

January - March: strong orders each week keeping my forward planning to 6 month, drawing a living wage from the business
April - July: down to 2 orders a month bringing forward planning to 8 weeks and drawing no income from the business.
Last week - 3 confirmed orders Looking forward to paying myself again!

Now if you can live with such uncertainty then it is for you. However, remember I am in Britain where ukulele making is a fairly unique occupation and people want value over bling - it is very rare that I get to put abalone on an instrument or inlay on a fingerboard which add considerable income to any sale. I build lots of sopranos which are harder to make than the 6 tenors I am currently doing and are half the price! I am simply working for the bank every time I make one of these... So think very carefully - if there is opprotunity to make and have another source of regular income, go for it.

Further: I have to say it's great that you are thinking of a change in career and that you have funding for your retraining. Going to bed with neck and shoulder ache (yep there is a lot of bending and awkward posture in this job), no fingerprints because you spent the day sanding them off, a sense of hopelessness because everything went wrong and then waking thinking you are going to make the best instruments inthe world is unparalleled. It is hard and unrelenting but for me, it's all I can do and want to do. You have to be committed to everything that it holds - the good and the bad and smile as you string up you 100th ukulele thinking, "Wow, I'm nearly getting it right now..." and then learning you really do still have much to learn and a long way to go.

Uncle, I'm not a luthier...

I think the issue you'll run into is making the name for yourself so you can realize a decent profit out of your work. Chuck and Pete have said several times that you won't get rich building ukes - and those guys are at the top of the game!

You may have a couple of advantages that work for you:

1) you can do Hana Lima 'Ia, which looks fantastic and will give you a tremendous education.

2) with your background in woodworking, you already have a feel for the materials and some methods.

3) from other things you've posted, sounds like you have a pretty good stash of wood - if it's good stuff and suitable for ukes, you could have a good advantage in raw materials.

4) unless you got rid of your woodworking equipment, I bet you're pretty well equipped for the job - I'm sure there may be a few tools that make uke building easier that you don't have already, but I bet the basics are there.

Like I said, the biggest hurdle will be generating the name recognition that allows you to sell for more. I, for one, would happily step up as a customer if you chose to give it a go. That is, as long as you don't build pineapples exclusively.

Aloha!

Before you begin any venture like this...Start first with a "Business Plan" Then a "Cashflow Forcast"...Etc: Etc: ..I know this sounds boring but I've seen so many Guy's start out on their own with great ideas and terrific enthusiasum, then end up losing everything, just by not doing market research.
You've got to look at the Market (I don't mean guessing, you've got to get out to the libraries, talk to people, do lots of research count how many ukes disapear off the shelves in a week (due to sales) in the shops etc:...Is there a need for it?...What's the competition ?..Why should the Punters buy your Uke/Guitar?...What's special about it ?..How many are doing the same thing in your patch?..and what would be your "market share" if you joined in?..and all that type of "bollocks"

If you need Finance to start something like this ..then the lenders will want to know all this type of info...I was one of the worst business person's in the world..but I was not as bad as some of the high flyers (eg Delorian & Maxwell)..
I just make them one at a time .. and put them on E-bay "and they sell".. about 18 months later i'm just about breaking even..But I'm retired now-a-days and I only do it for a hobby...Anyway "good lucK"..I'd do it if i was you.

For some reason, I thought you lived on Maui?

It's a tough call and definitely a risk to take, if you plan on becoming a uke builder for a living.

Pros:

There are a couple of advantages. You're from Hawaii and will be building in Hawaii. Much as the Spanish guitar is respected, we do get a sort of automatic credibility thing going for us. The market for ukes is strong right now, despite the economy.

Cons:

Being in Hawaii can also be a disadvantage. I have never seen so many ukulele builders before, many living here in the islands. It's like everyone has an uncle who builds ukes.

Koa is expensive and getting more expensive. Although it isn't the only tone wood that's local, most people expect a Hawaiian instrument to be done in Koa.

Being that you are already an experienced wood worker and know how to play, I'm sure building something that looks and sound great would just be a matter of time. However, that's something you can't predict. Having no experience with lutherie, there's no telling how well you'll do unless you try. If you need to make money off the bat, I would say you will be taking a big risk. Basically, sink or swim. As I'm sure you know, speed, efficiency, and consistency in your work come from experience, not knowledge.

I'm sure you'll enjoy building, but starting it as a new career at your age is something that requires heavy thought. Especially if this will be your bread winner. I don't think the market is saturated, but there is no telling when the current boom will slow down. A lot of players dropped out around 2000, when the ukulele market started to slow down. Now that it's gaining steam again, many smaller makers are popping up, or growing in size. Thankfully, we made it through the lean years, but it was tough. My brother and I had to take second jobs to pay our bills, just to keep the company running.

I'm not saying not to do it, but as cool as a job as it may seem, it really isn't easy. If you're willing to take that risk, then by all means, go for it. I'm sure most of the people you meet both here and in person will be helpful in your quest. If not, maybe choosing something more stable and building ukes on the side may be a better option. If you are able to build a good product, and sell yourself, then perhaps you can consider doing it as a living at that point.

First off, I'm no luthier, building an electric guitar for myself currently but it's only taught me that I have no talent for this type of thing...

That said, I'd go for it if I were in your position. In 2009, 50 years isn't old. This is just based off of what I know about you from your posts. I don't keep your household books and that's, in my opinion, where the decision lies.

It'd be foolish to assume that the current explosion of ukulele playing will continue infinitely, but I think it'll keep up for a long while now. Paul's point is very valid, being in HI is a major advantage for ukulele building. You'll also have a pretty big leg up as far as market research and distribution is concerned(make friends with MGM!).

For the past couple of months, I've been building an acquaintance with a luthier here in Oklahoma, named John Mayes. His bread and butter is guitar building but his uke's are awesome and he's going to build one for me. I bring him up because he works from home, gets to be active in his young childrens' lives and while not being rich, he's living the dream in every other way.

If it works out financially, it's a win win. Nothing worthwhile is ever really easy.

I think you should do it.
You want to do it.
You would put your heart into it.

While I'm not a luthier, I'm pretty involved in woodworking.
I see this question come up many times on woodworking forums and most of the answers I see are just plain "AttaBoy You can do it" type responses.

I believe you have received some of the smartest, well thought out advice that I've seen on this subject. Print out this thread and reread it as often as necessary.

Here is my 2¢
In the last few years, the woodworkers that I've seen who succeeded in pursuing a career in working with wood are the ones who have a spouse that is the major bread winner and had health insurance that was provided their employer.

If you have another income I beleive it can be done, if you don't, it will be a difficult road ahead.

Good Luck, I wish you all the best and hope your dreams come true.

BTW - I'm older then you you young whimper snapper (55)

What a perfect opportunity. Give it a shot, that way you can never say I should have.

I am not a luthier, but I am an Industrial Designer and a person who works a lot with advertising agencies.

FWIW: I think to be new, and competitive, you will need to offer something unique that will attract customers. Whether is is "being green" or a special bracing method, sound box or head stock shape, or a distinctive decorative detail... you need something to make your ukes stand out in the crowd. This might not come to you until you get more knowledge about traditional construction methods. But remember, there has to be a reason why they choose your ukes instead of somebody else's ukes.

Go with your passion, and you will do your best work!
Good Luck!
–Lori

Of course you know I've had the opportunity to work with some awesome builders, and I'll tell you the truth, I'm glad they do it for a living, and not I.

Even though I think I could make a go at it, the market is changing rapidly to a point where I wouldn't want to be doing this for a living. Customs are a niche market, but everyone (okay, not everyone) is expecting custom quality, without custom price. Perfect finishes, specific setup, dressed frets, etc. Now, its about customer service, and the internet. Try charging someone to ship back an instrument for warranty repair, even though it says it on your site, you'll get flamed on a board somewhere. Instead of respecting your business practices (which he paid for), he damages your rep and says "its all good now." Expectations are high, and getting higher. It is what it is.

Problem with `ukulele, you build a Standard, and it brings 1/2 the price of a tenor. Pete already said this best. To add on, it takes the same amount of labor, and the material cost difference is less than $20 (give or take).

However, if you have the skills, and marketing mind, you can. There's a builder out there who took Mike's class, built a nice website, let everyone know he's building, and BOOM, he's on THE builders list. His instruments are nice, people think he's nice. Good for him - I know you'll instill in your instruments what he never can. . . mana.

One piece of advice - learn to build a good instrument, before you try to build a nice one. Although, I may eat crow there, as I see a LOT of people going for looks, throwing on Aquila's, and are happy. Hey, that might be a current recipe for success . . .

-Aaron

Add one - I just found out that a friend of mine is conducting a "Build a `uke in 4 days" series of classes in Oakland, at his shop in Santa Cruz, and later in Tasmania.

Contact Rick Turner at his "info" email off his website for more info - just Google Rick Turner Guitars, and you'll find him.

Absolutely top notch guy, and, a "Giant among men" (per Larry Robinson).

Good luck!

Aaron

It's not a get rich quick scheme, that's for sure

My situation is a little out of the ordinary I suppose... My main business is computer software ( http://www.waverlystreet.com ). The nature of that is once you've got some mature products, it's possible to pretty much "coast" for long periods of time, doing little but filling orders and answering tech support questions. It can get downright boring! So my ukulele building hobby-turned-business is something I can do without disrupting my primary business (which also started out as a hobby, by the way).

I never would have guessed it a couple years ago, but with the economy like it is, it's turning out that making ukuleles is becoming a significant hunk of extra income for me. I'm getting better at it, getting some good reviews, and slowly managing to jack up the prices a bit. It's nowhere near enough to live off, but it's coming along. But the most important thing is that I really enjoy doing it! It's nice hands-on creative work that brings great satisfaction to me. Beats the s** out of working in an office or something (I did that for ~25 years), even though I just hover a little above the poverty line.

My suggestion would be build a few and see how things go. Don't bet the farm on it though until you get some experience and do some homework.

Ahnko Honu said:

A little background; I had an industrial injury back in early 2004 and 3 back surgeries and over 6 years of physical therapy later I will finally be able to start vocational rehabilitation in a couple months. My insurance provider will pay for any schooling. I have been a carpenter and woodworker pretty much my whole adult life, and I'm pushing 50. I have always wanted to build 'ukuleles, I believe I have the skills, I just need the knowledge. Since I'm on Oahu I was thinking the Hanalima 'Ia School. VR would also pay for any addition equipment I may need along with the schooling. Question is with current economy is it a worth while pursuit? I don't want to be rich by any means, I just want to be happy, and able to pay my bills, and be comfortable. Can this be done as a luthier, especially a luthier who has not made a name for himself yet?
My other options were computer CAD drawing , and Surveying. I prefer working with my hands and being outside of an office. Is this a stupid dream?
I am posting here so experienced luthiers who's majority income is from 'ukulele making can reply. Mahalo nui guys.

Click to expand...

man, youre master roshi, you can do anything.

Ahnko, there have been many wonderful replies to your question. The only thing I can add is this; if you love building ukes you can do it. The only way you are going to find out if you love building ukes, is to build some. If I did not make a dime, I would still build instruments, because that is what I do. The fact that I'm able to sell everything I make allows me to build a lot more than otherwise. I think you should give it a try, your biggest asset is your love of wood.

Brad

I for one think you should do the cad/drawing thing. It will make $$ with no risk. It's one thing to follow your dreams but when the food on the table really counts....

Great advice here. Aggregate it and you get:

1. Follow your dream
2. Proceed with caution
3. Have a good product
4. Make sure you have a 2nd income
5. Have a good website

I am sure it will work for you if you follow this...

What skills do you have to fall back on?

If you can avail youself of this training in luthiery, then go for it.

But it's not exactly a sure fire guaranteed income you can live on. Also, being self-employed really sucks when it comes to paying for things like health insurance.

My two cents

I very much understand and sympathize with the struggle between one's dreams and the realities of your financial condition.

I have no wood working or luthier experience at all. And I know little about the business terrain of uke making - but I do know what I am talking about when it comes to making money.

Note that starting your own business has two portions:

1) In this instance, making ukes.

2) All the other stuff that any small business owner needs to do which includes: corresponding with clients, paying bills, invoicing, stock management, shipping, communications, marketing, taxes, book keeping and a 1,000 other little things...

Being a maker implies only doing #1 - but making your living as a maker demands #1 and #2. And I suspect your sales and promotional skills are maybe even more important to your success in this profession than your building skills. I point this out so you know what you are getting yourself into.

A lot of people are making ukuleles which implies a lot of competition and a low profit margin. It's what business people call a mature market. It's also somewhat a tournament profession in that many people are willing to do it for little or even no pay. Therefore I suspect that the top uke makers are competing on image and perception just as much as on the quality of their ukes.

Sadly it needs to be noted that I suspect that 90% of the people who buy an uke this year would not be able to differentiate between a good uke and a super fantastic uke. Which means, from a business perspective, it's not worthwhile to make the best ukes out there - but to instead focus on making passable, economic ukes with some great marketing attached. If you'd aspire towards perfect ukes, you'd be competing with the Ks with comparable prices but only with an ounce of their history and reputation. (That's a tough fight.) I assume you will not be able to hit their prices because they are just going to have economies of scale due to their batch sizes that you on your own can not hit - at least for a while.

In any case: I would encourage you not to just 'make ukes' but to identify a specific niche market within the uke population. Pick one type of instrument - the more specialized the better - and establish yourself as the go to guy for that type and that type alone. It's the only way you could stick out to the pack. (I'm sure this was the thinking behind the first pineapple; too much competition led to innovation.)