soundchecks and setting up sound

kalmario

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hi all,

I'm sure someone can point me in the right direction here, having trouble at church setting up the sound levels for the band, can anyone suggest any websites which cover the basics and assumes little or no knowledge?

the last three times practice has been rubbish as the sound is all over the show!

cheers in advance

Cliff

p.s. the 'band' comprises of 2x acoustic guitar, 1x electric guitar, 1x keyboard, 1x piano, 2 to 3 singers, 1x drum, and of course 1x ukulele!!
 
WHAT DID YOU JUST SAY???!!!

That's a buzy stage, kalmario:

2x acoustic guitar
1x electric guitar
1x keyboard
1x piano
2 to 3 singers
1x drum
1x ukulele

What you are dealing with is the inability to hear what's going on. Everyone plays and sings louder to try and compensate for the inability to hear what's going on. Stage volume gets out of control. You need a monitor system to hear the balance of the stage. Please post all the sound equipment your band is using... I.E. P.A. system, microphones, how many channels on the P.A., guitar amplifiers, keyboard amplifiers, ukulele amplifiers. Ric
 
cheers for the quick response!

i am taking this on myself to fix this, so will get back to you on the gear, might be a day or two, buut what you describe is so right!!

Cliff
 
Hi kalmario, as rickdoug said, you've got a lot going on there (not that that's a bad thing). Getting a good mix is one part of the equation; but don't forget the other...good arrangements.

With the number of instruments you've got going, everyone really needs to pick a simple part and stick too it. A good example would be the records Jeff Lynn produced for Tom Petty (think Free Fallin). There are a lot of layers on those records, but all the instruments play simple complementary parts. With the instruments you have, one possible way to approach this would be (and this is just a possible suggestion, mind you):

The 2 acoustic guitars and ukulele play the same strummed part...same strumming pattern. The goal is to have it sound like one full instrument.

The electric guitar might play a sparse arpeggio pattern as an accent.

The piano player should focus on sparse voicings, primarily in the right hand. Not too much motion, perhaps following the vocal melody here and there. Too much left hand steps all over the territory of the bass...

Since you have a keyboard player (and not a bass player), they would be ideally suited to cover bass duties.

Your singers might work on 1 harmonious part, not too much in the way of competing melody lines (everything can't be counterpoint).

And finally, your drummer needs to keep simple, rock steady time for all of the above to rest on.

Just some thoughts, hopefully they help a little. Working with a group of that size is challenging, especially without some serious sound gear and a dedicated sound man. When in doubt, turn DOWN. Make rumor for others, and keep musical egos in check.

-John
 
We usually play without a soundman/woman. Pluging a monitor into the sum line out of a P.A./mixing board allows the band to hear the mix. As I always tell the band, if it sounds loud or soft in the monitor, it sounds the same up front to the audience. Very good suggestions, John. Silence has it's place in songs. If everyone's jamming full blast, phrasing is lost and it all sounds the same. When Cliff comes back with a list of the band's gear, it will give a better picture of how to arrange and control the sound mix. Number one, like you stated, is to lower the volume of the instruments and voices. Ric
 
When multiple guitars are playing, it is best to play chords in different places on the neck and playing accents rather than try to create one big fat sounding strum like a single twelve-string would make. That fullness of sound would be much more pleasing playing a "C" down low on the neck and a "C" barre chord (for example). Accents would be a "C" way up the neck.

Timing is critical and a lot of excellent musicians are not "tight". The term "ensemble" really means that a musical group "plays together". They start on time, end on time, and play in perfect precision everywhere inbetween.

I have heard lots of bands that are not tight. A professional performance will be perfectly in sync. Listen to a group like SuperTramp where there is a lot going on and hear how everything is timed perfectly, That takes practice. Now the KEY to this is HEARING each other. So, lowering the volume in practice is of vital importance. Ric's advice about good monitoring is also critical. Everyone has to be on cue and that takes being able to hear each other, not just hearing yourself.

One last thought, you'll never be a star if you think "look at me". Unless you have a lead guitar solo or keyboard solo in the mix, the music should have a great balance and vocal blend, with the lead vocal slightly up-front.
 
Everyone's responses are wonderful so far and cover everything I would say.


I would add, if you have some free time get the Funk Brothers CD "standing in the shadow of motown" where they play motown hits without any of the singing.

There are a lot of instruments, not a lot of mics in the studio back then, and great great songs.

One thing you'll notice: A lot of instruments spend a fair amount of time waiting to play just the right thing at just the right time.
 
I feel your pain!

I play in a 9-piece band.

Banjo
Uke/mandolin
Sax
Double bass
2 x Acoustic guitar
Electric guitar
Drums
Lead voc and 2 x backing voc

We use monitors at big venues where everything goes through the PA, but at smaller venues only the vocals, sax and sometimes drums go through the mixer. The rest is backline. Obviously that makes monitoring difficult.

We usually send our lead singer out front of house and then we play "Momma Don't Allow" as a sound check so each instrument gets to feature. Boyd tells us what needs to go up and what needs to come down. Surprisingly it works ok - except certain members can't resist fiddling with knobs after the levels are supposedly set right. GRRRR!!

If everything goes through the PA life is a little easier as people don't have their own amps to mess with, and all levels and EQ are at the mixing desk.

Nominate one person to have responsibility for mixing (in this case, you)... and shoot anyone else who goes near the desk!
 
[...]A lot of instruments spend a fair amount of time waiting to play just the right thing at just the right time.

Oh, man. If only that happened in the real world... It's most often an ego-powered free-for-all. :D
 
morning all, sorry for the delay

the mixer is a gl-2200, found the manual, so am going to have a crack at it tonight, turns out half the foldbacks were turned right down so no wonder no one knew what was going on!

what i would like to know is how to set the stage up? there is only 2 foldbacks, so how would you postion everyone?

currently it goes up front, acoustic guitar 1 (+vocal) vocal #1, Vocal #2, acousatic guitar 2, ukulele, then electric guitar. (fold backs are in front of both acoustic guitars) then behind are the keyboards and drums (drums have their own fold back as they are electric.)

i figure the fold backs have to go wider but do you split them to each side, or just put everyone out over both?

cheers again for the help

Cliff
 
Good evening, Cliff.

With two foldbacks (monitors), you'll want to spread them out towards the ends of the stage so everyone can hear the mix. Angle them so they are aimed inwards toward the center. Make sure they are as far in front of the microphones as possible, to increase the gain before feedback ratio. After each song you practice, ask the band what they're hearing/not hearing on the stage. Readjust accordingly until you find a happy, workable medium. Ric
 
In my band we have 5 girls,

guitar/lap steel/harmonica/back-up singer
bass/back-up singer
ukulele/flute/percussion/back-up singer
pan player
keyboard/drum machine/lead singer

When we first started we had just about everyone going through the PA. It was kind of pandemonium. We found we did better if we took the individual instruments out of the PA. As time went on we all got our own amps. Our vocals and keyboard/drum machine are the only things we send through the PA and monitors. With our instrument amps behind us and just our vocals and drum machine coming through the monitors, it seems to work better. We are working on getting a live drummer, (girl drummers are rare) so when that happens we'll only have the vocals thru the monitors and PA. It just feels cleaner to us. Also we can each adjust our own instruments individual sounds without bugging the sound man. He's my hubby and he keeps the vocal levels correct and roams the performance location and lets us know how our individual instruments sound in the back.
 
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