Should Hawaiian music be classified as "roots" music?...

ricdoug

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I think it is "American Roots" music. The ukulele has roots in the American State of Hawaii.

Grammy voters receiving their preliminary ballots this week are mystified to find that the category for Hawaiian music, placed within the field named "Folk Music," now resides in a field renamed to "American Roots."

Same field, new residents, new name.

For the record, the field includes Americana, bluegrass, traditional & contemporary blues, traditional & contemporary folk, Hawaiian, Native American, and Zydeco or Cajun.

I'm working on getting the Ukulele Society of America, Moonlight Beach Ukulele Strummers and Wind an Sea Ukulele Orchestra listed in a roots journal. I feel that Hawaiian is definately "Roots", when it comes to American Music:

http://www.sandiegotroubadour.com
 
Roots = Folk

Folk = Roots


There you have it.

JJ
 
Roots = Folk

Folk = Roots


There you have it.

JJ

I agree. Anything acoustic with Soul I consider Roots or Folk Music.

That probably explains my obsessions with bluegrass, delta/country blues, hawaiian music, italian music, jug music, bossa nova, french music, klezmer music, DAWG MUSIC!!!, etc.
 
I think it is "American Roots" music. The ukulele has roots in the American State of Hawaii.

Grammy voters receiving their preliminary ballots this week are mystified to find that the category for Hawaiian music, placed within the field named "Folk Music," now resides in a field renamed to "American Roots."

Same field, new residents, new name.

For the record, the field includes Americana, bluegrass, traditional & contemporary blues, traditional & contemporary folk, Hawaiian, Native American, and Zydeco or Cajun.

I'm working on getting the Ukulele Society of America, Moonlight Beach Ukulele Strummers and Wind an Sea Ukulele Orchestra listed in a roots journal. I feel that Hawaiian is definately "Roots", when it comes to American Music:

http://www.sandiegotroubadour.com

Portugal notwithstanding, but the `ukulele (and Hawaiian Music) finds its source in the Nation of Hawai`i.
 
Roots = Folk

Folk = Roots


There you have it.

JJ

As Satchmo said, "All music is folk music; I ain't never heard no horse sing a song".
 
Portugal notwithstanding, but the `ukulele (and Hawaiian Music) finds its source in the Nation of Hawai`i.

that confirms what I was about to say...

Hawaii is only American on a map...its a culture entirely unique apart from the rest of the nation. Its hard to put Hawaiian music in with "folk", cuz when the rest of the nation thinks folk, they think cowboys, banjos, guitars, mandolins etc...the kind of music that streams from east to west coast. We dont have Indiana music or Idaho music...hence, Hawaiian music is just that...HAWAIIAN.

as confirmed in the mindset "the Nation of Hawaii" - cant argue with that
 
that confirms what I was about to say...

Hawaii is only American on a map...its a culture entirely unique apart from the rest of the nation. Its hard to put Hawaiian music in with "folk", cuz when the rest of the nation thinks folk, they think cowboys, banjos, guitars, mandolins etc...the kind of music that streams from east to west coast. We dont have Indiana music or Idaho music...hence, Hawaiian music is just that...HAWAIIAN.

as confirmed in the mindset "the Nation of Hawaii" - cant argue with that

Agreed, but you can say the same thing about a bunch of the other music they are putting in this category, specifically Native American. Nations in and of themselves each with unique musical history and culture.

It's a very broad category, but Hawaiian music is a unique style that was created by the people that live in lands currently associated with the US. Roots indeed. Yes, distinctly different than "American Folk" or "Bluegrass" or "Blues," which were all created by Americans living in America at the time the music was created. But Hawaiian music still a unique style created in lands currently associated with the US.
 
Whether blues music was created by Americans living in America at the time is arguable on a couple of different levels. Blues was created by Africans, either living in Africa or in America as pieces of property, not citizens. But I digress.

Hawaiian music is definitely roots music, but not necessarily American roots music; while many American roots artists have been deeply influenced by and incorporated elements of Hawaiian music over several decades - and on the other side of the coin many Hawaiian artists have been deeply influenced by American roots artists as well. So valid arguments either way can be made. That, IMHO speaks to how artificial it is to place music into categorical boxes in the first place.

There's really only two kinds of music - music you like and music you don't.
 
Here in the San Diego area, the ukulele is seen commonly at open mic's and being played in rock, jazz, country, bluegrass along with many island genres. The growth of the ukulele in this area is skyrocketing. Ric
 
Its hard to put Hawaiian music in with "folk", cuz when the rest of the nation thinks folk, they think cowboys, banjos, guitars, mandolins etc...


Probably true. But that's their mistake. "Folk" simply means a culture's traditional, "folklore" music.

Sure, in someplace like Appalachia, it would probably involve banjos, fiddles, and mandolins. But in Eastern Europe, you'd probably see an accordion. In Ireland, a tin whistle and/or a bodhrán. In the Middle East, and oud. And yes, in Hawaii, you'd see a(n) ukulele.

It's still "folk music" though.

JJ
 
Agreed, but you can say the same thing about a bunch of the other music they are putting in this category, specifically Native American. Nations in and of themselves each with unique musical history and culture.

It's a very broad category, but Hawaiian music is a unique style that was created by the people that live in lands currently associated with the US. Roots indeed. Yes, distinctly different than "American Folk" or "Bluegrass" or "Blues," which were all created by Americans living in America at the time the music was created. But Hawaiian music still a unique style created in lands currently associated with the US.

e kala mai/sorry for bringing in the political vein, but to state that Hawaiian music has its roots in the American State of Hawai`i is false. [politcal rant]"associated," "occupied," "colonized." take your pick. Hawaiian music has its roots in the Sovereign Nation, prior to illegal takeover, prior to territory, prior to fake statehood. [/end political rant]

truth be told, I think the "powered" statement of "American State" just riled me up and if originally left out, I probably wouldn't have said anything.

BOT, I can also see where Hawaiian Music can be classified as Roots music, and I'm not so one-sided to see where some may see Hawaiian Music as American Roots music.

Regardless, IMHO it doesn't bother me where the Grammy's places Hawaiian Music, since I've written off the Grammy for Hawaiian Music a long time ago.
 
"folklore" music is a good reminder of the parameters of the actual meaning rather than the perceived meaning.

that being said, I like what RevWill said...2 groups of music, what you like and what you don't, but it is always interesting to track origins and evolution of music w/in various cultures.

btw, I love the political rant on the Hawaiian state...I dont know alot about Hawaii from personal experience, but I just hate to see its culture lumped in with the American stank. I think we'd all love to see more Hawaiian influence on the American state rather than visa versa
 
e kala mai/sorry for bringing in the political vein, but to state that Hawaiian music has its roots in the American State of Hawai`i is false. [politcal rant]"associated," "occupied," "colonized." take your pick. Hawaiian music has its roots in the Sovereign Nation, prior to illegal takeover, prior to territory, prior to fake statehood. [/end political rant]

truth be told, I think the "powered" statement of "American State" just riled me up and if originally left out, I probably wouldn't have said anything.

Regardless, IMHO it doesn't bother me where the Grammy's places Hawaiian Music, since I've written off the Grammy for Hawaiian Music a long time ago.

Amen, It's like saying Tibetan music has it's roots in the Chinese state of Tibet. Amen about the Grammys, what a joke. :rolleyes: I'll stick with the Na Hoku Hanahano Awards as a authority on judging Hawaiian music. ;)
 
+1 brah, +1 . . . fo da Na Hoku Hanahano Awards. Da only way to judge Hawaiian music is by those who know Hawaiian music. I'm gonna pose one mo' question about the music whose "lands are currently associated with the US". :rolleyes:What about the territories like Guam and American Samoa? Should they be lumped in with the different categories making up Roots Music? Just food for thought! :confused:
 
e kala mai/sorry for bringing in the political vein, but to state that Hawaiian music has its roots in the American State of Hawai`i is false. [politcal rant]"associated," "occupied," "colonized." take your pick. Hawaiian music has its roots in the Sovereign Nation, prior to illegal takeover, prior to territory, prior to fake statehood. [/end political rant]

truth be told, I think the "powered" statement of "American State" just riled me up and if originally left out, I probably wouldn't have said anything.

BOT, I can also see where Hawaiian Music can be classified as Roots music, and I'm not so one-sided to see where some may see Hawaiian Music as American Roots music.

Regardless, IMHO it doesn't bother me where the Grammy's places Hawaiian Music, since I've written off the Grammy for Hawaiian Music a long time ago.

Wow, sorry. I thought I did everything I could to be sure that my statement did NOT imply that Hawaiian music was created in the "state" of Hawaii. I realize that it was created by people with a musical tradition far older than contact with Europeans. Sorry if I've offended anyone. My statement was to say that currently, on a map, Hawaii is associated with the US. That's a simple fact. All of the states are, even the ones that still include Native Americans on their ancestral lands. I am not Hawaiian, and I take no political position regarding how or why the association came to be. I personally don't know enough about it or the Hawaiian people.
 
+1 brah, +1 . . . fo da Na Hoku Hanahano Awards. Da only way to judge Hawaiian music is by those who know Hawaiian music. I'm gonna pose one mo' question about the music whose "lands are currently associated with the US". :rolleyes:What about the territories like Guam and American Samoa? Should they be lumped in with the different categories making up Roots Music? Just food for thought! :confused:

I guess I'll just shut up now. Thanks for giving me another forum where people are so jumpy that one slightly unclear statement can make someone feel like they don't belong.

I'm outta here.
 
I guess I'll just shut up now. Thanks for giving me another forum where people are so jumpy that one slightly unclear statement can make someone feel like they don't belong.

I'm outta here.

braddah, no offense taken at all. e kala mai/sorry, if i seemed to be targetting you, i no more tact.

and trust, kanaka916 isn't salty like me. (i really come off as a bitter moke lol) i think he's just using your term to inquire abt other "territories" and if they would be considered american roots music too.

timothy/old bird, grab a primo, sit down and we wala`au/talk story. no huhu/anger.
 
I think Timothy got jumped on a little hard here. :(

I obviously read a different meaning in his earlier post than some did. I read it to mean that he acknowledged the independent cultures of the Native American nations and of Hawaii, but that their music has as much relevance to the overall roots/folk tradition of the US as any other, and has a right to be considered.

That is very different to implying that it is simply an assimilated musical tradition that the USA can claim as its own.

You'd all better chew me out too, because I think he meant something different to what you read, and I agreed with his inclusive sentiment. AND with the respect I thought he expressed for the Native American and Hawaiian peole and their traditions.
 
I think Timothy got jumped on a little hard here. :(

I obviously read a different meaning in his earlier post than some did. I read it to mean that he acknowledged the independent cultures of the Native American nations and of Hawaii, but that their music has as much relevance to the overall roots/folk tradition of the US as any other, and has a right to be considered.

That is very different to implying that it is simply an assimilated musical tradition that the USA can claim as its own.

You'd all better chew me out too, because I think he meant something different to what you read, and I agreed with his inclusive sentiment. AND with the respect I thought he expressed for the Native American and Hawaiian peole and their traditions.

neither of you should be ripped. i took offense to the term "American State" but I used his term of "associated." humbug and fixation on my part.

Back on topic: (sort of) Chamorro and Samoan music are classified as Oceanic music. Puerto Rican music I'm not sure, but I don't believe any US Territory music is classified with an the American Roots flag. Is the star (the 50th star for the 50th fake state) the determining factor to deciding American Roots?

I will agree with RevWill as well, that music is influenced by everything. like the dude on the board that jams the `ukulele with the steel drum. The fact that it has an `ukulele doesnt classify it as Hawaiian music, but it's still american roots right? but maybe i'm crazy, because i think JChurch, which is an old 90s punk band form Hawai`i/SF/Austin tx(?) whose lead singer is hawaiian(rip) was hawaiian music as well.
 
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