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leftovermagic84
10-16-2009, 03:21 PM
So there's what looks like the second scam by the same person up in the marketplace right now, both IDs were low post numbers. Is there a way to require a certain number of posts before somebody can list in the marketplace for our protection?

Uncle-Taco
10-16-2009, 03:26 PM
I have noticed a few really unsavory instances of fraud or perceived fraud that have been expertly dealt with by our awesome mods.

I belong to another (much bigger) forum on which a member is required to be a member for [N] days AND have [N] posts before they are allowed to post a for sale ad. They can buy and they can make "wanted to buy" posts, but they can't offer anything for sale or trade until a predetermined post count and time establishes at least some credibility and membership in the community.

Has this been proposed or considered here at UU? Do we have the moderator presence we would need to have those threads locked quickly enough to be effective if Ukulele Underground adopted this type of policy? (Mods?)

SuperSecretBETA
10-16-2009, 03:26 PM
I was just about to post that! haha
15 post minimum I say!
... relevant posts too.

Uncle-Taco
10-16-2009, 03:28 PM
Great minds think alike; you posted this while I was typing the same suggestion.

dnewton2
10-16-2009, 03:32 PM
There has been a thread about making rules for the marketplace, nothing really came of it.

Here it is. (http://www.ukuleleunderground.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11639)

I think for the most part there have not been any successful scams, people here seem to always sniff them out. That is not to say some marketplace rules wouldn't help keep scammers from being successful.

leftovermagic84
10-16-2009, 03:32 PM
I was just about to post that! haha
15 post minimum I say!
... relevant posts too.

I'd actually put it at like 50 or more, it's pretty easy to rack up 15 in a night and start spamming...

leftovermagic84
10-16-2009, 03:34 PM
the thread just got deleted, thanks mods...but I'd watch out, He made 3 sn's lately, all with drew and 671 babiidrew671, andrew671, and drew671....he's a crafty devil....:D

hoosierhiver
10-16-2009, 03:42 PM
If you see something suspicious you can hit the alert thingy in the top right of the post and flag it for a mod to check out.

SuperSecretBETA
10-16-2009, 03:50 PM
Also warm people about new users eager to trade. They likely have nothing and simply want you to send them a uke.

pithaya9
10-16-2009, 03:52 PM
I'd actually put it at like 50 or more, it's pretty easy to rack up 15 in a night and start spamming...

:agree: 50 at a minimum that way people won't sign up just sell something.

mokai
10-16-2009, 03:52 PM
Also warm people about new users eager to trade. They likely have nothing and simply want you to send them a uke.

exactly ... drew617 asked me to trade him my kala for his nothing :eek:

Blrfl
10-16-2009, 03:57 PM
Over at "my other place," we have an area called "Introductions" where new users are required to post and tell us a little bit about themselves. Posting there are hand-moderated, and users can't post anywhere else until they have an approved post there.

It's cut the spam problem waaaaaay down.

--Mark

pithaya9
10-16-2009, 04:04 PM
Looks like Seeso is already on top of the latest scam. Thanks Seeso!

SuperSecretBETA
10-16-2009, 04:05 PM
Wait, I just got an idea. User requires a picture with his/her username in the picture (not photoshopped) with the ukulele for sale or a video with the person talking about it.

Uncle-Taco
10-16-2009, 04:08 PM
My other hangout is 50 posts and 45 days before you can sell. You can buy, but you can't sell until then.

pithaya9
10-16-2009, 04:14 PM
My other hangout is 50 posts and 45 days before you can sell. You can buy, but you can't sell until then.

That sounds reasonable.

UkuleleHill
10-16-2009, 05:00 PM
My other hangout is 50 posts and 45 days before you can sell. You can buy, but you can't sell until then.

:agree::agree:

ChamorroDT
10-16-2009, 05:11 PM
On another forum board I'm a part of (Sole Collector), if you're going to sell ANYTHING at all you MUST...

Place a sign with your username on it in every picture that you post up if you plan on selling. (People also do it even if they're just showing some new shoes or clothes they got, haha).

I mean, I saw that other thread - he basically stole the pic and used it as his own. I think it'd be a good idea to do this (referring to placing a sign with your username on it).

+ The minimum post as well (I believe they enforce this rule as well...)

There goes my :2cents:

experimentjon
10-16-2009, 05:40 PM
I think it'd be nice to have a minimum post requirement before starting a thread in the marketplace, after the recent events. I think something like 15 posts or so, not too high, should be good enough to do the job, otherwise, it may just increase spam from the scammers who really want to get in. As for requiring pics with screen names, I don't think its really that necessary, since people may be trying to use the same pics in multiple listings on say Craigslist or Ebay.

Another good system I have seen is buyer/seller feedback built into vBulletin. However, I don't think that'd work too well here due to the relatively low volume of transactions per member.

specialmike
10-16-2009, 05:45 PM
well, the thing is... who says this faker can't spam... to get X amount of posts...

I think we should link a paypal link or something. Let's say if you list post anything on Marketplace, you have to submit a paypal account. Furthermore, you should have some history, and it must be traceable. If it's not, I would suggest you do not conduct business with this person. I realize there are going to be some noobs out there who don't have any history, which is fine... but if they don't have history, the person who doesn't have history must pay for shipping first(a deposit). Once the payment is received, then the ukulele can be shipped. Here's the thing though, you must provide a physical address and phone number along with the paypal acct. It is then up to the seller/buyer to do the research. The buyer doesn't have to worry about being cheated... since it's against federal law to use fake addresses and stuff like that. Once the uke is received, the deposit can be refunded. any thoughts? :)

Fred Miu
10-16-2009, 07:18 PM
Yes we are aware of this. but we cant be on the computer/forums all the time. so we try to stop them as soon as possible.

obviously this guy is not a part of our forum, nor does he agknowledge the fact that there are rules in order to sell an uke.

Seeso is very much on top of it making it a global announcement that we have a scammer on our forum.

leftovermagic84
10-16-2009, 07:21 PM
Honestly, the sad truth is that no matter how complicated we make this, eventually there has to be enough trust to put money into an account or a ukulele in the mail.
The last thing I want to see is a forum that's been so friendly to beginners start to wall itself off from them in any way shape or form. Seriously, everything I picked up has been from you guys (and gals).
Most of us at least recognize the big names around here and are aware of their reputations that stem far beyond the little green box in the top left. It's the beginners that I'm worried about. I'd just hate to see someone new to the uke be taken advantage of and turned off to the forum and the ukulele in general.

Kanaka916
10-16-2009, 07:37 PM
We (Mods) try to be aware of of what's going on and try to close the door on it ASAP. But as Fred mentioned, we're not online all the time. It's really the members who notice something awry and post their concerns and report any type of infractions. Once we're notified, we'll take the necessary action. I think we'll have some sort of discussion, present it to Admin and go from there.

specialmike
10-16-2009, 08:49 PM
UU third party ACCOUNT. Money is transferred to this account. Once uke arrives, the money will be deposited in appropriate accounts.

UkuleleHill
10-17-2009, 06:50 AM
well, the thing is... who says this faker can't spam... to get X amount of posts...

I think we should link a paypal link or something. Let's say if you list post anything on Marketplace, you have to submit a paypal account. Furthermore, you should have some history, and it must be traceable. If it's not, I would suggest you do not conduct business with this person. I realize there are going to be some noobs out there who don't have any history, which is fine... but if they don't have history, the person who doesn't have history must pay for shipping first(a deposit). Once the payment is received, then the ukulele can be shipped. Here's the thing though, you must provide a physical address and phone number along with the paypal acct. It is then up to the seller/buyer to do the research. The buyer doesn't have to worry about being cheated... since it's against federal law to use fake addresses and stuff like that. Once the uke is received, the deposit can be refunded. any thoughts? :)

With Chamorro's idea I think he means like a written sign on paper with their user name... That would make it less likely that someone would use someone elses picture, they would have to photoshop a piece of paper in...

SuperSecretBETA
10-17-2009, 10:11 AM
With Chamorro's idea I think he means like a written sign on paper with their user name... That would make it less likely that someone would use someone elses picture, they would have to photoshop a piece of paper in...

Hey, my idea too. :p


Wait, I just got an idea. User requires a picture with his/her username in the picture (not photoshopped) with the ukulele for sale or a video with the person talking about it.

Rick
10-17-2009, 11:14 AM
So there's what looks like the second scam by the same person up in the marketplace right now, both IDs were low post numbers. Is there a way to require a certain number of posts before somebody can list in the marketplace for our protection?

I disagree, you can't judge a person by their posts. Sure, it makes sense that scammers don't stay on the forums to long, but how do we distinguish them from the new comers who need to sell or get the info out right away.

if anything have the post count really low.

bbycrts
10-17-2009, 10:55 PM
My other hangout is 50 posts and 45 days before you can sell. You can buy, but you can't sell until then.

:agree: Shouldn't be an issue - the prime purpose of the UU forums isn't the ads, it's the community, the learning, the collaboration - that stuff. If you want to sell here, great - but it's not asking a lot that you get to know the place a bit first! Like somebody else said, 50 is a good minimum - you can hit fewer than that with a little concentrated PWing (ask me how I know...).

Fred Miu
10-18-2009, 06:41 AM
My other hangout is 50 posts and 45 days before you can sell. You can buy, but you can't sell until then.


i agree with BBycrts. it is the community.

and along with Unco-Taco: i agree with that rule, that ways they have to stick with us if they truly want to sell.

cocohonk
10-18-2009, 08:16 AM
50 posts and 45 days sounds like a plan.

But meanwhile, many thanks to all the moderators and members who always seem to sniff out the questionable posts so quickly!

UkuleleHill
10-18-2009, 09:07 AM
i agree with BBycrts. it is the community.

and along with Unco-Taco: i agree with that rule, that ways they have to stick with us if they truly want to sell.

Plus in that time/posts, they should have the time to get to know enough of the members to be less likely to be scammed themselves, ya know...

Kanaka916
10-18-2009, 12:47 PM
Ryan is working out the details for buyers protection (http://ukuleleunderground.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20455).

whetu
10-20-2009, 12:32 AM
well, the thing is... who says this faker can't spam... to get X amount of posts...

I'm a vbulletin admin who has been through this same problem too many times. Simply the easiest thing to do is set a postcount requirement of 50 posts, set some guidelines and then let the community and mods deal with it.

A postcount of 50 is high enough to discourage same-day/same-week spammage (which gets picked up quickly and the offender beaten), yet low enough to not be a barrier-to-entry for people who are interested in being members of the community. Community members always prefer Quality posts over Quantity posts

(i.e. 'me too lol :smileybounce:' )

It also deals with that annoying situation of people who sign up *just* to use the marketplace, when they should maybe be using ebay instead. As far as I'm concerned - and this is my own experience speaking, you may think differently - the marketplace is for members of the community to trade with other members of the community, not for outsiders to abuse.

The other issue is responsibilities - the admins/mods here might want to make it clear that they're legally 'all care, no responsibility', yet willing to aid with logged IP's and time/datestamps should law enforcement get involved (and only where giving out the information is legal, via court order or whatever). Protect the buyers - sure, but protect UU as well!

IMHO and in my experience, of course.