Finishing Process

Thus far I have simply been spraying about 5 or 6 coats of spray can nitrocellulose lacquer, sanding with 220 after the first 2 or three coats, then going over the final coat with super fine steel wool, then buffing with a soft cloth. I'd skip the steel wool if the finish looked great as-is (which happened about half the time).

The new plan is to wipe on a coat of shellac, sand, then spray on 4 or 5 coats of water borne polyurethane, sanding after the first couple coats. That's the plan anyway - I've only done this on scrap pieces so far, but I think it looks real good.

It should be noted that I don't understand or have any use for the whole grain filling thing, nor am I shooting for a glossy finish (I prefer matte).
 
In the US Behlen's wipe on finish...

I learnt an important lesson from a couple of old French polishers who sprayed my Art Deco furniture when I was a cabinet maker. They employed FP techniques to conform (pre-catalysed and acid catalyst) lacquer - multiple thin coats on top of a well prepared and filled surface.

I suggest you use William King's oil-filler technique because it is nice and easy then apply thin coats of your prefered finish. I sand 320 with the early coats then 600 just before the ast coats - the flatter the early coats the better. It takes time but you get the superior finish this way.
 
all I've ever done if any was stain it and spray it down with some poly and polish up...

you guys use regular stain and then do all the fancy finishes?
 
dave g said:
Thus far I have simply been spraying about 5 or 6 coats of spray can nitrocellulose lacquer, sanding with 220 after the first 2 or three coats, then going over the final coat with super fine steel wool, then buffing with a soft cloth.
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cool beans...sounds like a simple plan. can you link me to this item so I can see what I'm looking for and where I can get it...

Pete, your post was a little over my head...You said 2 different things that I'm not equating. Behlens or William Kings or do you mean both, and each for a different aspect of finishing? Its safest to presume ahead of time that I dont know anything about what I am asking:)

thanks homies
 
cornfedgroove said:
cool beans...sounds like a simple plan. can you link me to this item so I can see what I'm looking for and where I can get it...

Pete, your post was a little over my head...You said 2 different things that I'm not equating. Behlens or William Kings or do you mean both, and each for a different aspect of finishing? Its safest to presume ahead of time that I dont know anything about what I am asking:)

thanks homies
Click to expand...

I had to read it twice, too. The way I read it was, use William King's technique to apply Behlens. Behlens was the product, William King's was the technique.
 
Really late...

There are four stages in the finishing process:
  1. Sanding
  2. Filling
  3. Building the finish
  4. Rubbing out
use William King's oil-filler technique
Click to expand...
This refers to the filling stage. If you read his articles on his blog/website, you lazy boys, you will see that he uses this technique for his 'oil' finishes and also for pore-filling prior to his cellulose finish. I don't think I could be much plainer.

So to repeat with a little more of the subtext...after you have used the 'oil-fill' technique to fill the pores you slap on a coat of french polish to seal the oil finish and create a layer that other finishes will easily adhere to - cullolose, wipe on eurethane, Behlen's wipe on finish, lark's vomit or monkey spit!

I have to point out with my curmudgeons hat on (I have 'flu) that this topic comes up every 3 months or so and there is a huge amount of information in this forum and others on the subject. :spam:

PS
Part of being a craftsman is continual research - it is always helpful to use other forums, builder's blogs, Frank Ford's site to get information. I spend a huge amount of time poring over what my peers are doing (particularly Chuck Moore and Dave Means), watching video on YouTube of factory tours and techniques, even looking at video and sites that are about other wood crafts. By doing this I become better informed but more important - motivated to do better and be better than thelast instrument I built. Unless ya'll budding luthiers do this you will not get a 'perspective' on the craft. To simply mine this one board for information will skew your view - especially if you hang on every word I say - heaven forbid! :eek:
 
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Behlen's manufacture a product called Wool Lube - I dilute this with soapy water and use it with 0000 wire wool, 1000, 2000 or 4000 Abralon pads depending on the finish I require. If you are looking for a satin finish that is really hard to distinguish from a spray finish, the Abralon pads are your product - no stray wire wool hairs to leave scratches in the work.
 
Pete Howlett said:
To simply mine this one board for information will skew your view....
Click to expand...
:agree:
I'll go one further. IMO, about 25% of the information on this board is actually practical, helpful or even factual. I will admit however that it is often entertaining. But as Pete says folks, do your homework. A serious builder or even serious enthusiast should not be getting all their information here. There are much better resources.
 
My one-time finisher did his training with jaguar cars. His automotive knowledge made him the ideal spray man - working with the awkward contours on a car, the crooks and nannies... he was well trained finishing ukes straight from the gun with a satin finish that has stood the test of time. It's a pity he can't do it any more because my pathetic attempts at replicating his work are not worthy...

Hence, get your info from more sources than here - if you look at Chuck's background you will find he hasn't always been a luthier just as I haven't. A rich background fits you well for this job and generally teaches you the key ingredients for success:
  • Patience
  • Attention to detail
  • Self sacrifice
  • A dash of humility
I'm still working night and day on that last one...
 
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I mentioned in another post that Dominator and I think Chuck had talked about a great luthier book, but I couldnt remember the name and nobody replied. If you give me the name of that book...I'll probably be able to leave you guys alone for a while.
 
There isn't one book IMHO. Your best resource is visit a builder and pay to watch him work. Like all hand skills, confidence is acquired through repetition over time. When you see a person, no matter what their craft, going about their daily labors in a sure footed way you can bet that they have perfected those skills over a long period. None of this can be distilled in the frozen moments of a book or video on YouTube. My visits to Petere Sensier, Brian Cohen and Michael Sprake on a single day in 1976 inspired, informed and motivated me to be the best instrument maker I could - that Peter drew on the immense and diverse culture of South America to make his 'agricultural' yet fascinating guitars; that Brian was building with neat patience his last steel string guitar before embarking on a glittering career that would lead to building guitars for Julian Bream; that Michael could build al ute in 2 days and used a dental burr and drill to carve a rossette in one hour with such accuracy and perfection showed me the way. No book could have given me the insights these luthiers did on that one day in Novemebr in London England.
 
Pete Howlett said:
There isn't one book IMHO. Your best resource is visit a builder and pay to watch him work. Like all hand skills, confidence is acquired through repetition over time. When you see a person, no matter what their craft, going about their daily labors in a sure footed way you can bet that they have perfected those skills over a long period. None of this can be distilled in the frozen moments of a book or video on YouTube. My visits to Petere Sensier, Brian Cohen and Michael Sprake on a single day in 1976 inspired, informed and motivated me to be the best instrument maker I could - that Peter drew on the immense and diverse culture of South America to make his 'agricultural' yet fascinating guitars; that Brian was building with neat patience his last steel string guitar before embarking on a glittering career that would lead to building guitars for Julian Bream; that Michael could build al ute in 2 days and used a dental burr and drill to carve a rossette in one hour with such accuracy and perfection showed me the way. No book could have given me the insights these luthiers did on that one day in Novemebr in London England.
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I hear you, but we all gotta start somewhere...I'm set to go down and visit Thistle at his emando shop sometime in november, but it would also be nice to begin to get a better grasp on building basics in general. I'm learning from the ground up with nothing more than a love for instruments...I understand some basics, but you gotta remember that when you and I say "basics" we mean different things. It would be beneficial for me to read and see pictures ahead of time since there the opportunity to visit a builder is limited, so although watching him is great, understanding what I'm seeing (the how's and why's) would really maximize the opportunity
 
Believe me, you will understand more than you know when you se it IRL... visit other instrument makers - I learnt in Finland how to bend binding. Juha Lottonen (a guitar maker just learning how to make ukulele) who told me learnt it from an accordian maker. And it is such a clever trick I am not going to share it... ever!
 
Pete Howlett said:
Believe me, you will understand more than you know when you se it IRL... visit other instrument makers - I learnt in Finland how to bend binding. Juha Lottonen (a guitar maker just learning how to make ukulele) who told me learnt it from an accordian maker. And it is such a clever trick I am not going to share it... ever!
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LOL...so everyone has been passing it down and sharing it, but the buck stops in the UK? Hahaa, dang brits

so here's a question...dont answer it if you dont want. I saw a homemade uke the other day, traditional style, but it was all bumpy on the bends and not smooth, know what I mean? why is that
 
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