Luthiers - Single Piece Tops and Backs?
- Thread starter RonS
- Start date
Rick Turner
Well-known member
I see one piece tops and backs as being quite normal on soprano and concert ukes, but when you get up to tenor size, bookmatched two piece tops and backs become more common. Some woods like mahogany are stable enough (don't shrink or expand too much with humidity changes) to go one piece on a tenor if the wood is dry and reasonably quartered. That said, we've made all or our Compass Rose tenors with bookmatched backs and tops.
Pete Howlett
Well-known member
Most definitely Ron. Although the bookmatch is a desirable outcome on any instrument one piece fronts and backs are my prefered situation providing the grain and figure is even. I have about 30 sets of one piece concert koa tops and bakcs where a gentle wavey black line just happens to run right through the middle... it bisects a change of hue and looks great. My harpuke has a one pice back and many of my koa tenors this year have had that too - at a tad under 9" it is an acceptable width and shrinkage is skrinkage - as soon as you glue two piece together they become one and the expansion across the width with a rise in humidity is going to be the same as if it was a bookmatch. Or at least it was the last time I did timber testing on my timber technology course at university....
erich@muttcrew.net
Well-known member
I think it really depends on the design of the instrument, and the wood.
We have some really nice sapele that we've used as single piece backs. But we're not out there selling instruments. If you look at what's out there, you'll see a lot of bookmatched backs, and I guess that's what people expect to get.
Our designs vary a lot from one instrument to the other, but in general I think we would use a symetrical (bookmatched) back (and/or front) whenever the design and the pieces of wood we're using call for it.
We have some really nice sapele that we've used as single piece backs. But we're not out there selling instruments. If you look at what's out there, you'll see a lot of bookmatched backs, and I guess that's what people expect to get.
Our designs vary a lot from one instrument to the other, but in general I think we would use a symetrical (bookmatched) back (and/or front) whenever the design and the pieces of wood we're using call for it.
Moore Bettah Ukuleles
Well-known member
You might want to consider cutting some guitar sets.
koalohapaul
Well-known member
If you can keep them wide, do so. I prefer one piece, but wide, even grained koa is hit or miss in any given shipment. Most of the mills I work with know that wider is better, but they can't be shipping all the 10" boards my way.
We did exclusively one piece sides and one piece tops and backs for a long time, before integrating book matching. I hated it at first, because it's almost triple the labor. Now it's become routine and it's a score when we get some material wide enough to do a one piece. The only drawback to doing one piece is that resawing that wide requires more skill and experience.
We did exclusively one piece sides and one piece tops and backs for a long time, before integrating book matching. I hated it at first, because it's almost triple the labor. Now it's become routine and it's a score when we get some material wide enough to do a one piece. The only drawback to doing one piece is that resawing that wide requires more skill and experience.
Kaneohe til the end
Well-known member
koalohapaul;280202The only drawback to doing one piece is that resawing that wide requires more skill and experience.[/QUOTE said:
The bandsaw mill we have uses 8" wide blades and has a 52" throat. Cutting single piece fronts and backs would be a no brainier for us.
When we cut guitars sides we start with 10" to 11" wide billets, cut them to 4mm thick slices, then lay them flat and cut them in half to 127mm wide. Then we cut them to length.
Rick Turner
Well-known member
Ahh, but band mills like that take out a lot of kerf. The "new wave" of resaws use thin blades well tensioned and do not depend on the rudder effect of wide blades to stay straight on cut. The big wide blades with the clearance teeth on the back side still rule for sawing logs, and a lot of folks still use large circular saw headrigs, but resawing has changed dramatically in the past couple of decades.
I use a 20 hp Baker horizontal resaw with very thin kerf blades...Timberwolf ASS vari-pitch 3/4" blades that have a .046" kerf as measured from a lot of cutting. I can resaw to just over 13" with the machine, and the low kerf loss means I yield anywhere from 15% to 25% more wood and less sawdust, plus I get better bookmatches with such low loss. The saw has a conveyor belt feed with a powered hold down in front of the blade that is synchronized with the conveyor. I use a fine water mist to cool the blade.
I'm happy to discuss my process. Several other organizations have gotten similar Baker saws in my recommendation...Luthier's Mercantile, Allied Lutherie, and the Roberto Venn School of Lutherie; and all report the same results. It really pays off with expensive wood like koa or the various rosewoods.
If you're cutting clean but abrasive woods, there are some wonderful carbide tipped blades that last a long time, but I cut a fair amount of wood with rocks or nails, and I hate wasting a $230.00 blade. I'd rather go through more $30.00 blades.
I use a 20 hp Baker horizontal resaw with very thin kerf blades...Timberwolf ASS vari-pitch 3/4" blades that have a .046" kerf as measured from a lot of cutting. I can resaw to just over 13" with the machine, and the low kerf loss means I yield anywhere from 15% to 25% more wood and less sawdust, plus I get better bookmatches with such low loss. The saw has a conveyor belt feed with a powered hold down in front of the blade that is synchronized with the conveyor. I use a fine water mist to cool the blade.
I'm happy to discuss my process. Several other organizations have gotten similar Baker saws in my recommendation...Luthier's Mercantile, Allied Lutherie, and the Roberto Venn School of Lutherie; and all report the same results. It really pays off with expensive wood like koa or the various rosewoods.
If you're cutting clean but abrasive woods, there are some wonderful carbide tipped blades that last a long time, but I cut a fair amount of wood with rocks or nails, and I hate wasting a $230.00 blade. I'd rather go through more $30.00 blades.
Moore Bettah Ukuleles
Well-known member
There's something to be said for that. I'm currently cutting with Lenox thin kerf teflon coated carbide blades. They cost close to $200 each. (180" X 1 1/2") They are wonderful to use. The down side is I have a few of them and no one locally will sharpen them. Lenox tells me they aren't meant to be sharpened.
Hey Rick, I'm using the same blade on my 14in. Grizzly, and really like it. I looked up the Baker saw you mention online, and I have only one question--can you drive it to work, too?
Flyfish57
Well-known member
Hey Rick, I'm using the same blade on my 14in. Grizzly, and really like it. I looked up the Baker saw you mention online, and I have only one question--can you drive it to work, too?
Drive it to work? I think he can land it on the moon!!!
Matt, do you like the Grizzly Bandsaw? I'm looking to upgrade from my 10" rockwell the first of the year.
erich@muttcrew.net
Well-known member
Does anyone else besides us use hand saws for resawing? We actually own one power saw, a saber saw, but no one ever uses it.
Of course, we don't need professional production facilities for our needs. I guess that's the difference. Still, I get all glassy eyed when I here about the teflon coated band saw blades. :drool:
So it takes you guys two minutes to saw a set of sides. Me, twenty minutes and a soar arm. And they still need to be hand planed - another soar arm.
Of course, we don't need professional production facilities for our needs. I guess that's the difference. Still, I get all glassy eyed when I here about the teflon coated band saw blades. :drool:
So it takes you guys two minutes to saw a set of sides. Me, twenty minutes and a soar arm. And they still need to be hand planed - another soar arm.
I do. I bought the GO555X. I shopped around for a couple months, tried a sears 12" I didn't like (others here like it, though, so take my advice with a grain of salt). I looked at Lowes (delta and one other), Home Depot (Rigid), Johnson's Workbench (Steel City and more), as well as Harbor Freight (Central Machinery) and determined, mostly from reviews, but from advice given on a wood working forum, too, that the Grizzly was as much saw as the money would buy. After that, things jumped to $1000 and more, for the equivalent. I will eventually get the extension block for it, and longer blades to accommodate it. It's more than I wanted to spend, and shipping is killer, but I want to resaw woods like African Padauk, and by many accounts, lesser saws will really bog down under six inches of hardwood like that.
I should add, the fence and resaw fence that came with it were another reason I chose this saw. Most of the others I looked at needed a good fence to go with them, and those are $80 to $100+.
Last edited:
I don't want to say I'm a lazy s.o.b., but I determined early on I could spend a lot of time sanding and sawing and planing, or I could get a thickness sander and a band saw and be done with it. It's not that simple, of course, both machines can bollocks up your project in seconds flat if not used with care and real attention, but, I'm not spending a lot of time screwing them up, any way...
Rick Turner
Well-known member
Well, the Baker does look kind of like a lunar lander! It's a minor monster, but since I do production work, it's really been a money saver. It literally paid for itself over the three year lease purchase just on wood for me, and then I did a fair amount of resawing for other folks...a lot of Brazilian rosewood in both old stock and relatively newer stump wood. With that stuff...or really good koa...getting one more set out of a 2" billet easily more than pays for the blade, and with the cooling mist, they last a while unless I hit something.
I did make a guitar with a resawn bullet in the walnut back. It was really cool!
I did make a guitar with a resawn bullet in the walnut back. It was really cool!
erich@muttcrew.net
Well-known member
I know for sure there are skills involved in using power tools properly, but even if we were committed to developing those skills - we just don't have the space to put tools like a bandsaw, a table saw... No way, sorry.
BTW, our power saber saw has a list of features a mile long, with a guide, a laser beam and what all... but it's practically impossible to cut a true line with it. It seems like every time we use it we manage to ruin another piece of wood.
BTW, our power saber saw has a list of features a mile long, with a guide, a laser beam and what all... but it's practically impossible to cut a true line with it. It seems like every time we use it we manage to ruin another piece of wood.
Pete Howlett
Well-known member
I guess that's bubinga? Pretty wood but impossible for musical instruments - it was like bending iron when I used it and gluing was a real problem! Mind you, I'd use some of those burr nodules for my uklectic drop tops in a heartbeat!
I resaw using .032" blades. With the saw set up well and a slow feed you can cut 3mm slices that will sand up fine for ukes. Yield is still quite high and with my saw, I can jst about get 7.25" under the guides if I flip them...
I resaw using .032" blades. With the saw set up well and a slow feed you can cut 3mm slices that will sand up fine for ukes. Yield is still quite high and with my saw, I can jst about get 7.25" under the guides if I flip them...
