Tuning/Intonation experiment/cure: (String winding)

All,
I have fought my Kanilea Super Concert for YEARS with tuning issues. My luthier has made 2 different saddles for it, all to no avail. The thing that was weird about it was the inconsistency of the tuning problems (sometimes flat at 3rd fret on the C string, other times sharp as one example). I have always used Aquila Low G strings and the uke was set up at Kanilea for those strings. The ukulele has grover geared tuners (made for small instruments) on it, and these tuners have very short string posts. The last time I restrung the uke, I strung it with the sting windings ABOVE the the string hole in the string post rather than below. The string posts are so short that having the windings below the string hole, even with NO slack in the string when starting to bring the string to pitch, would result in the string crimping itself between the tuner bushing and the string windings, thus making the inconsistent tuning issues. So, after all this time, I can use this ukulele again (it is a truly great sounding instrument!). If you are having tuning issues on an ukulele with these small Grovers (or any short post tuners), you might want to give this a try.

Jimmy

Sorry, I just had to post a pic of the Kanileas! Left to right: K3 Super Concert, G6 (Baritone Ukulele body with 23.5" guitar neck.), K3 Tenor 8 string

Interesting bit of info. Thanks for sharing. Glad you can rock your K again!!

Man, you have a K3 Super Concert? I would die to have that uke!!

Humm, don't know if I'm sold on your solution. If it works for you, great, but in theory once the string crosses over the nut and there is no slippage with the tuners thereafter once the uke is tuned up (no matter how much crimping is going on with the tuner posts), the intonation is then strictly limited to the area between the nut and the saddle. So I don't know. Sorry... Anyone? Help me out here if I'm wrong...thanks, e.lo..

E-Lo Roberts said:

Humm, don't know if I'm sold on your solution. If it works for you, great, but in theory once the string crosses over the nut and there is no slippage with the tuners thereafter once the uke is tuned up (no matter how much crimping is going on with the tuner posts), the intonation is then strictly limited to the area between the nut and the saddle. So I don't know. Sorry... Anyone? Help me out here if I'm wrong...thanks, e.lo..

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You are correct...I am using the wrong words. Intonation is nut to saddle, my problem was that I would get the string in tune (open), and then the string would slip at the tuning machine (when fretting notes) which I then interpreted as an intonation problem rather than a tuning problem. Sorry for my poor choice of words. Any movement of the string between the nut and tuner has an effect.

My solution will not cure bad intonation. My solution will cure the tuning issues associated with the string windings being crimped at the tuning post.

Jimmy

PS. I went back and edited the original post so that it actually makes sense!

Thanks Jimmy. Hope my comment didn't sound harsh. It wasn't meant that way...e.lo...

E-Lo Roberts said:

Thanks Jimmy. Hope my comment didn't sound harsh. It wasn't meant that way...e.lo...

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I didn't take it as harsh, only correct! Thanks for the correction.

Jimmy

Jimmy,

Your suggestion to wind the strings above the post, generally, is not a very good one. The lower it goes on the post, the more tension is put on the string in the nut slot, seating it better. By going up the post, you start to lose tension and put other factors such as buzzing, at risk. Again, this may not be for your instrument because you have a good break angle at the headstock and/or because your posts don't go up that high.

You should try a different tie at the tuning machine that would result in a tighter wind (see David Hurd's or Frank Ford's site).

Just my $.02

Kekani said:

Jimmy,

Your suggestion to wind the strings above the post, generally, is not a very good one. The lower it goes on the post, the more tension is put on the string in the nut slot, seating it better. By going up the post, you start to lose tension and put other factors such as buzzing, at risk. Again, this may not be for your instrument because you have a good break angle at the headstock and/or because your posts don't go up that high.

You should try a different tie at the tuning machine that would result in a tighter wind (see David Hurd's or Frank Ford's site).

Just my $.02

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I did not offer this as a cure to everyones ukulele, it was offered as a possible fix for someone having problems similar to mine (in the orignial post, I finished with "you might want to give this a try"). At worst, it costs a set of strings, at best, it fixes a problem. The issue is the extremely short string posts (the Kanilea string post is 5.75mm long from the top of the bushing to the top of the string post verses 9mm measuring the same way on the string posts on my Mainland Tenor), I do not have this issue with any of my other ukuleles but all have much longer string post. Having been a guitarist for over 3 decades, I assure you that I understand the physics of a stringed instrument. In using Aquilas, which stretch more than any nylon string I have ever seen, using a different tie will not help, there is literally room under the string post hole for 1 or 2 winds before the string starts hitting the tuning machine bushing. The other option is to pre-stretch the strings but I do not like that option as I feel that opens up additional tuning problems and shortens the life of the string.

Jimmy