PDA

View Full Version : Uke Players V Guitarists



Leodhas
01-23-2010, 03:05 PM
I've only been on here for a few days now as I have been seeking help because I'm due to buy my first Uke. However I have noticed something aboot Uke players through this forum. That on the whole they appear to be far more relaxed, less anal aboot things than Guitar players, just generally nicer folks.

As a Guitar player I have wasted a few hours on certain forums, harmony central and the like and don't get me wrong, there are some good folks on those forums but there does appear to be far more FUDS (idiots) on those sites than on here. In fact I haven't come across one tadger(penis) on here. Everybody comes across as chilled and very helpful.

I've obviously hung around with a few guitarists in my time in the real world and when I think about it they are definitely more uptight than the folkie instrument guys I've come across. Maybe the guitar just attracts a lot of pricks but I don't know what that says about me :confused:, hopefully it means I will improve myself as a person via Uke. :cool:

Melissa82
01-23-2010, 04:04 PM
Yes, the forum here is wonderful and much more laid back. I think it also has to do with what we are willing to deal with from an admin/mod stand point. We will not stand for ignorance, hateful/derogatory comments and the like. I hope those that join UU and that are already part of the community will continue posting in a positive, helpful manner.

aviezero
01-23-2010, 04:31 PM
one big happy family

Leodhas
01-23-2010, 05:07 PM
Yes, the forum here is wonderful and much more laid back. I think it also has to do with what we are willing to deal with from an admin/mod stand point. We will not stand for ignorance, hateful/derogatory comments and the like. I hope those that join UU and that are already part of the community will continue posting in a positive, helpful manner.

Absolutely agree that the admin is very important, especially when people start ranting on aboot things ! However that's what I mean aboot the Ukeies here, no one comes across as a ranter. Whereas I've found a lot of guitarists are ranters, usually it's aboot who/what is the best at this/that and they appear to get uptight aboot the most unimportant of things. Maybe it's something in the Uke players grass, via the cows who eat it and then produce the milk, obviously! Or perhaps it is just the joy that's found from playing such a harmonious instrument, who knows, but I want some.



On a personal note a can't believe it's past 4 am here and I'm still up and I've got to go to my maws tomorrow morning for a family breakfast. Screaming nieces and nephews with a hangover won't be fun!

kenikas
01-23-2010, 05:14 PM
It's hard to be grumpy and uptight when you're playin a uke!!

Tigeralum2001
01-23-2010, 05:33 PM
It's hard to be grumpy and uptight when you're playin a uke!!
I wonder if that has to do with the Aloha spirit that is innate with the uke's origin?

Sonseeker30
01-23-2010, 05:44 PM
The Ukulele is a happy instrument...when you hear it your mood/attitude seems to just be HAPPY!! WELCOME Leodhas to UU.

haole
01-23-2010, 05:57 PM
It's hard to be grumpy and uptight when you're playin a uke!!

This is true! :D

There are plenty of friendly, helpful guitarists out there who are open-minded and easygoing. But the d-bags make up a larger, more outspoken proportion of the guitar community than the uke community.

Whether it's the moderation or just a quality inherent in uke players, we just don't get many threads like "whose the best ukalale player jake shimbakro or james hill" or "julia nunes sux bcuz she doesnt play crazy 128th note harmonic minor solos, she just strums + sings!!!1". A lot of other musicians tend to find a clique within their instrument's community, so the speed metal guys and the blues guys and the jazz guys all hang together and badmouth each other. But UU is very musically diverse, yet the folks who dig traditional Hawaiian music or jazz or reggae or hapa haole or folk or classical aren't constantly at odds. It's refreshing, really. The only other instrument with a community this supportive is probably the didgeridoo.

austin1
01-23-2010, 06:43 PM
I've only been on here for a few days now as I have been seeking help because I'm due to buy my first Uke. However I have noticed something aboot Uke players through this forum. That on the whole they appear to be far more relaxed, less anal aboot things than Guitar players, just generally nicer folks.

As a Guitar player I have wasted a few hours on certain forums, harmony central and the like and don't get me wrong, there are some good folks on those forums but there does appear to be far more FUDS (idiots) on those sites than on here. In fact I haven't come across one tadger(penis) on here. Everybody comes across as chilled and very helpful.

I've obviously hung around with a few guitarists in my time in the real world and when I think about it they are definitely more uptight than the folkie instrument guys I've come across. Maybe the guitar just attracts a lot of pricks but I don't know what that says about me :confused:, hopefully it means I will improve myself as a person via Uke. :cool:


I will give you five dollars if you write an entire post in scottish slang. seriously. five dollars.

oh, yeah, i heart ukes. :D

edit: six dollars if you include a translation

grammy
01-23-2010, 09:51 PM
the problem with some musicians, not just guitar players, is ego. There is a great deal of snobbery, one-upmanship and trying to be cool. people who play uke tend to suffer a little less from these afflictions.

A lot of folks find their songwriting stilted and difficult and that is cos of ego too. they are trying too hard, trying to write something meaningful.

luvdat
01-23-2010, 10:52 PM
I've been playing guitar for over 35 years and I have to agree with you about guitarists. First, there are simply many more of them, so consider statistics and probability as providing a larger pool.

What contributes to making the guitar more of a jerk-magnet (or creator) and a relatively more hostile discussion topic? I would say that in the electric guitar community (I use that word "community" a little loosely here) the "guitar hero" thing still goes on and on despite direct statement that that whole thing is dead. Also, gear, pickup options, quality of offerings, Strat vs. Tele, etc... You might also note that most guitarists overplay not simply "showoff." Many not only have GAS but NAS (Note Aquisition Syndrome). Ask any bass player who knows what he's doing for their observations about their skills when it comes to rhythm. Acoustic guitarists and discussions are somewhat more benign actually toned down by snobbery here and there?

Really, guitarists have more reasons to be uptight. They deserve our compassion (like all people). There are more of them and music has changed (vs. rock guitar solos etc.) In the first place though, let's stop calling them "guitarists" when the vast majority are "guitar players." They actually have reasons to be less uptight: they just don't know it. Here's one: most people want to listen to singers.

Years ago I met Bucky Pizzarelli (jazz guitarist)with a resume that included a steady gig on The Tonight Show during the Johnny Carson era. He was one of the most decent warm humble persons I ever met. I would call him a "guitarist."

In short, many "guitarists" are more uptight because underneath it all they are simply "guitar players."

I think with the ukulele, you find most people happy just to say they "play the uke" or call themselves a "uke player." I don't think it's only because "ukuleleist" is harder to say. Melissa, could you kindly research that word?lol...and then ban anyone who uses it...not me in this case...

Always stay a beginner, someone who listens more than plays.

JCMcGee
01-24-2010, 12:24 AM
Up in Scotland you have some of the maddest Uke players on the plannet...not sure what they put in the water up there....probably whisky:

Finn: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7jFgLEOShE
Gugug: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsqCo7WQ-aY
Kazookeylele: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAg5KjnAhuU
Bobby McGees: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLldkLTALGs

Lanark
01-24-2010, 05:14 AM
the problem with some musicians, not just guitar players, is ego. There is a great deal of snobbery, one-upmanship and trying to be cool. people who play uke tend to suffer a little less from these afflictions.
.

Not to mention all that baggage that comes with the history of guitar playing and guitar players and the gearhead snobbery that comes with collecting equipment and amps and pedals. There's a lot pompous sniffing and huffing at other people's rigs and tastes and styles and by this point it's pretty damn hard to do something with a guitar that somebody else hasn't already done and a lot better than you. And then there's the aspect that there are probably billions of guitar players out there and they have to find someway to feel special about it. (and this comes from somebody who played guitar for 30+ years and is in the process of liquidating most of my vintage collection)

There are fewer ukers with less expectations of what is, has and can be done with an ukulele. For the most part since the ukulele doesn't garner a whole lot of respect for the most part in the regular world there's a lot less posturing to be done. (Most average people aren't really impressed by an instrument that they immediately associate with novelty tunes.) There's no need for pretense and a general willingness to help one another.

austin1
01-24-2010, 06:13 AM
There are fewer ukers with less expectations of what is, has and can be done with an ukulele. For the most part since the ukulele doesn't garner a whole lot of respect for the most part in the regular world there's a lot less posturing to be done. (Most average people aren't really impressed by an instrument that they immediately associate with novelty tunes.) There's no need for pretense and a general willingness to help one another.

That's actually the whole reason I picked up the ukulele, because I was really intimidated by the level of skill people expect you to have when you pull out a guitar. But no one expects anything out of a uke, so it's much less pressure and generally more enjoyable. I also maintain that it's impossible to take yourself too seriously when you're playing a ukulele.

grammy
01-24-2010, 06:53 AM
you see for me, the very idea that there is 'pressure to perform' or 'expectation' or that you' feel intimidated by the level of skill expected' is bizarre. to even say that means you play for othe people, to impress them or to gain respect or something, i dont know exactly. it seems very very odd to me. in fact it is ego.

play for you, cos you like it, play what you like, who gives a shit about anyone else. I understand it is quite hard when you are younger, and there is pressure to be cool or fit in or whatever, but the really cool people don't give a flying f*** what anyone else thinks.

rubenken
01-24-2010, 07:50 AM
Mr. or Ms. Luvdatuke seems to be projecting his/her own uptightness/grumpiness in generalizing about guitar players. Try Acoustic Guitar Forum. There are a few people there who seem the way luvdatuke states, but the overwhelming majority are no less mellow than people on this forum. Now, if you're talking electric guitars, that's a whole nother subject and group of people. When some innovative musician gains a following for doing heavy metal on the electric uke with distortion turned way up, then guess what will happen.

GreatGazukes
01-24-2010, 08:08 AM
Maybe a further point about ukulele players is that they want to jam together, and the more playing together the better. We've seen and admired (and been participants in :) )large ensembles of uke players, but I've yet to see a large conglomeration of other single instrument players. Fifty guitar players on stage? Ummph? Fifty uke players on stage? Cool!! So when you meet other uke players whether through this forum or in real life, it's like "when can we play together?"

(mind you, the "how many was it" piano players at the LA Olympic games still figures in my mind as a grand spectacle. lol)

luvdat
01-24-2010, 08:22 AM
Mr. or Ms. Luvdatuke seems to be projecting his/her own uptightness/grumpiness in generalizing about guitar players. Try Acoustic Guitar Forum. There are a few people there who seem the way luvdatuke states, but the overwhelming majority are no less mellow than people on this forum. Now, if you're talking electric guitars, that's a whole nother subject and group of people. When some innovative musician gains a following for doing heavy metal on the electric uke with distortion turned way up, then guess what will happen.

Reread my post. We're not in disagreement. Actually I'm not completely against that type of "snobbery" that values quality acoustic instruments but doesn't confuse that quality with one's identity. That's why I chose the word "benign." But hey, I'll go with more "mellow" to be in complete agreement not considering that a concession when it comes to the acoustic guitar.

Also, not in reply to your post: I'm not against "showing off." Just entertain me, have a good time, and don't look down on others. Roy Smeck? Was he a bit of a "showoff?" You got to love it.

And last but not least I have to say, "Go Jets!" Go Jets!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

pdxuke
01-24-2010, 08:48 AM
The uke is a fun instrument. Most of us are on this forum to seek like minded funsters. All of us can get trollish at times, because we are humans, but it seems like for the most part, we are a lot more willing to accept that different people like different ukes and different music and it's all good. I don't know what it's like on other forums, but I love the fact that I can play and chat and be 55, and there are folks 18 and 30 and 60 and whatever who do the same.

"Nice town. Know what I mean?" Thornton Wilder, OUR TOWN

cornfedgroove
01-24-2010, 08:49 AM
the problem with some musicians, not just guitar players, is ego. There is a great deal of snobbery, one-upmanship and trying to be cool. people who play uke tend to suffer a little less from these afflictions.

A lot of folks find their songwriting stilted and difficult and that is cos of ego too. they are trying too hard, trying to write something meaningful.

for sure...there's much more EGO in the guitar world. Guitarists are pretty competitive about which pony can do the most tricks. Ukers just wanna feel the music

ukulelearp
01-24-2010, 09:28 AM
I think it has more to do with the amount of people. Way more people play the guitar, so it follows that there'd be a higher number of jerks. Also, I don't think the moderators here have much patience for that anyhow.

fscott
01-24-2010, 10:16 AM
From a technical standpoint the guitar can be insanely difficult compared to the uke. It's a simple matter of number of strings, the length of neck, the type of string (steel versus nylon), and the sound. You really cannot sound bad on a uke, but you can on a guitar. So you do tend to find more arrogant individuals on a guitar. Not all, but enough to make them spoil the pot.

paraclete
01-24-2010, 10:28 AM
There is a whole testosterone/ego thing that comes with guitar playing. And I think a lot of people learn to play (or try to) the guitar to show off, boost the ego, etc. It wasn't easy to be the only female electric guitarist in high school, surrounded by a bunch of wannabee macho guys who felt that my ability to play guitar was a direct threat to their manhood. Everywhere I go, I find guitar players eager to prove that they can play better and faster and louder. They are often the ones who have to prove to the bassist that they can play bass better too, because to them, more notes is better. *sigh*

There isn't a big history of macho guys with long hair, makeup and leotards rocking out on the uke. I think the guitar naturally attracts people whose self-esteem needs a LOT of work.

Doctroid
01-24-2010, 10:38 AM
I think the guitar naturally attracts people whose self-esteem needs a LOT of work.
Paraphrasing Hoban Washburn, “Man walks down the street playing a Makala Dolphin, people know he's not afraid of anything.”

Hastour
01-24-2010, 10:41 AM
From a technical standpoint the guitar can be insanely difficult compared to the uke. It's a simple matter of number of strings, the length of neck, the type of string (steel versus nylon), and the sound. You really cannot sound bad on a uke, but you can on a guitar. So you do tend to find more arrogant individuals on a guitar. Not all, but enough to make them spoil the pot.

I disagree... I'm a converted guitar player, and my uke playing is currently concentrated on re-learning to play my guitar repertoire on uke. And there is a whole lot of songs which just don't sound right on ukulele, or require some creative twist to make them interesting while played with much worse sustain and range. Fortunately, for other songs it can be quite the opposite. But my flatmates can assure you that you CAN sound REALLY bad on a uke :)

More on the topic, I have a general observation that the more niche and weird a hobby is, the more friendly people it attracts, and with uke vs. guitar community this is exactly the case. Also, bear in mind that a small amount of assholes can really dominate any community and create an awful impression, despite a generally friendly attitide of most of the others. So it's just a matter of numbers, I presume. It would be unfair to project this bad impression on all those millions of guitarists.

Plainsong
01-24-2010, 10:55 AM
Well you have to have a certain amount of musician's ego to play anything on just about any instrument. But I agree with the fact that a larger number of players, and their varying styles, just really means more jerks, idiots, and elitists who think they are neither but really are both.

The uke community has them too. They just tend to not migrate to this forum, but they are there. You don't have a uke unless it's soprano, unless it doesn't have "ears", and is either vintage and/or made by someone who matters in their circles, and is usually expensive. Otherwise, what you have is a small guitar and you're just pretending to play guitar. They are the types who will invite a luthier from another country just to say "small guitars" to his face. Then there are the elitst snobs who don't share the opinions of a traditionalist, but who won't look twice at your post if you didn't wait at least 4 years and pay at least 3k for your uke. Those are the gear snobs, just like in the guitar world.

These snob types don't hang out here though. UU members can share their opinions and show off their gear in the spirit of sharing the uke enthusiasm, and not in any negative sense. I just hope that the uke doesn't get so popular that the rank of the elitist snobs increase. I guess every instrument has that problem though. I don't know why though. We should all be about the love of making music.

ukulelearp
01-24-2010, 11:17 AM
I disagree... I'm a converted guitar player, and my uke playing is currently concentrated on re-learning to play my guitar repertoire on uke. And there is a whole lot of songs which just don't sound right on ukulele, or require some creative twist to make them interesting while played with much worse sustain and range. Fortunately, for other songs it can be quite the opposite. But my flatmates can assure you that you CAN sound REALLY bad on a uke :)



The ukulele is paradoxical that way. It's much simpler than a guitar, and because of that it makes more complicated pieces tougher to figure out, because you work with a lot less range than a guitar.

Leodhas
01-24-2010, 12:13 PM
OK, I've just walked through the door and turned on the auld gateway to the world(been at my maws since 11am then in the pub all afternoon) and it's very interesting some folks take on the auld guitarist debate.

When people are talking aboot that competitive playing/gear edge to certain guitar players, well I've never really experienced that in the real world. On the forums I see it, especially with the rock/metal heads who go on these things. However I don't or have never really known any lads(or lassies) like that in the real world.

It's probably a cultural things, there just aren't that many of them around in Scotland. That's not to say that there aren't any, it's just that Rock/Metal isn't the dominate scene for want of a better word and never has been. Kids who came/come to the guitar via their musical taste are really more influenced by the indie(once again for want of a better word) music scene that predominately comes oot of England and are equally into dance music also.

(Just realized how hard this is gunna be to write with 8 pints o the black stuff doon ma neck)

when I was a kid(32 now) it was bands like The Stone Roses/Happy Mondays then later on Oasis and Blur. The point I'm trying to make (even though am a wee bit doolallie wi the beer at present) is that, they were the guitar bands, or bands who used guitar, that appealed to yer inner city kids. There wasn't any metallica or leather clad American rock bands dominating the kids mentality, so when they went/go to the guitar in order to learn it they weren't/aren't infused with the idea of crazy licks or van halen hero worship, so there isn't that culture of gear/skills one-upmanship

As they have grown up they obviously have absorbed a guitar culture but there aren't any flying v's knocking aboot or 'crazy' paint jobs on their 'axe'. The kind of guitarist insanity I have come across in the real world is that they are generally more likely to be uptight, be mare touchy aboot things, mare likely te kick aff. In fact the only time I've ever seen a grenade glass thrown at a lassies head was by a guitar player(mind he was a real prick, I think he plays with some band doon in England now)

I'm sorry, am no making much sense, too much beer and thought and it disnae help am sippin a wee dram o whiskey at present and I've even forgot what a was on aboot now! Aye, guitar players, they're some solid good people who play the guitar,especially the folkies, it's just there is also quiet a number of tadgers in ma experience, you know what a mean, fer musicians.

It's just an observation and I noticed it when I came on here and realised nobody was at each others throats like ye get on some of the general guitar forums. Have to say the folks on gretsch talk are good people, aye they're no bad. Nevertheless, the Uke appears to attract less (or no as it happens in my experience so far) fudiods.

Hail the Ukeies and lets all raise a glass te Hibs!

PS. I'm not an alcholic it's just that it's sunday and I'll probably be very ashamed o this post when I read it back.

Moran taing agus Slainte mhor agad!

Hastour
01-24-2010, 12:28 PM
The ukulele is paradoxical that way. It's much simpler than a guitar, and because of that it makes more complicated pieces tougher to figure out, because you work with a lot less range than a guitar.

I'd rather say it's just the opposite :) Complicated pieces, with quick and many changes of "jazzy" sounding chords, once mastered, sound great. Simple "three chords" songs, especially slower ones, can be a pain - I can play them instantly, but they sound dull. It's simpler on a guitar to make a trivial chord progression interesting, but I'm still learning to do it on my uke... That may be the reason why old stuff sounds so great, as songs apparently used to be more elaborate in the old days. Anyway, I'm clearly steering out of topic of this thread...

The gear snobs are not exclusive to guitar or anything else, they're everywhere. I've met this kind of people among bikers, sailors, horse riders... even the simplest sport af all, running, can't live without talks of best clothes and electronic gadgets. Just ignore the snobs, life is easier that way :)

And yet UU is a place surprisingly free of such people. It's impressive, really. I'm glad to have found this site.

buddhuu
01-24-2010, 01:25 PM
[...] You really cannot sound bad on a uke, but you can on a guitar [...]
Trust me. Some of us have no problem sounding bad on both...


[...]There isn't a big history of macho guys with long hair, makeup and leotards rocking out on the uke [...]
To date, mostly just Deach...

Doctroid
01-24-2010, 01:37 PM
I note without comment that over on the Clarinet BBoard (http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard), the most recent topic at the moment is "does the clarinet attract players with obsessive personalities (http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=320555&t=320555)".

heymelbs
01-24-2010, 01:44 PM
I find a number of the electric guitar players to have that "chip on their shoulder." As a bass player, I know what it's like to be in the background with showboat electric guitar players. That's why I feel drawn to the Ukulele, since it is an instrument that doesn't have to be front and center.

buddhuu
01-24-2010, 01:46 PM
As a 35+ year guitar player I feel entitled to post the following:

What is the difference between God and a lead guitarist?

Plainsong
01-24-2010, 02:22 PM
I note without comment that over on the Clarinet BBoard (http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard), the most recent topic at the moment is "does the clarinet attract players with obsessive personalities (http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=320555&t=320555)".

LOL, I dunno, maybe? One of the off-putting things about clarinet is the endless mouthpiece, ligature, reed debates. Can't I just play and have it not suck? No, no I can't. The stock mouthpiece will be crap. And so many of my friends just loved the merrygoround. The guy who bought a crystal mouthpiece was the one who was the most obsessive. So yeah, maybe! :D

But for all my pointing out that the negative stuff exists in the uke community too, I think the following generally true of all music people:

That the kinds who put all of their self esteem into their gear, the ones who are loudest in the flame wars (like the mandolin players totally unloading on this one uke player on youtube some time ago)... these are the posers. The REAL musicians are too busy creating to care about the petty BS. They don't care what someone else plays, as long as they play it. The posers have time to participate in the mud slinging, because they're not busy creating anything. The most vocal about how much your guitar/uke/clarinet sucks and why, those are the ones who can't play much of anything at all. :)

cornfedgroove
01-24-2010, 02:36 PM
As a 35+ year guitar player I feel entitled to post the following:

What is the difference between God and a lead guitarist?

pretty sure God prefers the banjo

Sambient
01-24-2010, 03:02 PM
As a 35+ year guitar player I feel entitled to post the following:

What is the difference between God and a lead guitarist?

God doesn't think he's a lead guitarist.

austin1
01-24-2010, 04:10 PM
you see for me, the very idea that there is 'pressure to perform' or 'expectation' or that you' feel intimidated by the level of skill expected' is bizarre. to even say that means you play for othe people, to impress them or to gain respect or something, i dont know exactly. it seems very very odd to me. in fact it is ego.

play for you, cos you like it, play what you like, who gives a shit about anyone else. I understand it is quite hard when you are younger, and there is pressure to be cool or fit in or whatever, but the really cool people don't give a flying f*** what anyone else thinks.

I wouldn't call it ego...I would call it a lack of pressure. Maybe because everybody and their mother knows someone who plays guitar, I feel like when you pull one out of the case, there's a certain base level of ability that people expect (like, for example, the ability to play Wonderwall or whatever). But the ukulele is so novel, nobody expects anything, which totally removes any pressure from me to have to play to impress people. See? I play the ukulele because it's an instrument I feel I don't have to play for other people, because no one can judge me on it. Maybe it's a personal thing, I don't like pressure :D

uber_goober
01-24-2010, 05:13 PM
There isn't a big history of macho guys with long hair, makeup and leotards rocking out on the uke. I think the guitar naturally attracts people whose self-esteem needs a LOT of work.

Though now that Ibanez has introduced the Iceman ukulele, I might be able to convince my old singer to slip back into the leather pants of yore. Wait, that wasn't a good idea then. It's definately not a good idea now that he's the father of two. :)

dianalele
01-24-2010, 05:17 PM
holler!!! uke players totally own.
I find that most uke players GENUINELY want others to play ukulele and excell at it. People are so creative with their uke stuff too, so everyone brings something new and different to the table.
But yeah, the big difference from the world of other instruments is that in the ukulele world, it's not like "oh man, his video was good, now I have to top that" Instead we cheer each other on.

And then of course theres the fact that the ukulele is such a dern happy instrument.

jimmybookout
01-24-2010, 07:09 PM
Wow. I don't know where to start. This thread should go down in history as the musical version of racial profiling. As a guitar player of 40+ years, just a few questions for all of you that think that a tiny group of ego-centric guitar players are the standard: How can you make a value judgement about other musicians based on what you read on an internet forum? How many guitarists do you come in contact with on a daliy basis (in real life, NOT on the internet)? BTW, I almost shot coffee out of my nose on the "guitarist" verses "guitar player" bit...so Chet Atkins was a "guitarist" and some kid at Sam Ash playing the same A Major scale over and over on a Strat is a "guitar player"? Who gets to determine that? Howabout Chet and the kid both being either/or guitar players/guitarists..Chet is more enjoyable to listen to by my standards, but, to the kid's friends, he's the deal. I guess we all win.

My answer to this thread is go play some music and quit waxing poetic about how much cooler/nicer/whatever ukulele players are than guitar players. I imagine better skills on everyone's part will lessen the perceived competition/inferiority complex that this thread is languishing in.

Jimmy
Proud guitar player since 1967
Proud ukulele player since 2003

jimmybookout
01-24-2010, 07:34 PM
I note without comment that over on the Clarinet BBoard (http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard), the most recent topic at the moment is "does the clarinet attract players with obsessive personalities (http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=320555&t=320555)".

That's perfect.

Plainsong
01-24-2010, 08:54 PM
My answer to this thread is go play some music and quit waxing poetic about how much cooler/nicer/whatever ukulele players are than guitar players. I imagine better skills on everyone's part will lessen the perceived competition/inferiority complex that this thread is languishing in.

Jimmy
Proud guitar player since 1967
Proud ukulele player since 2003

:agree:

The uke community ain't immune to the same kind of negative vibe being complained about of the guitar community. WIth that, I think I'll go practice. :)

buddhuu
01-24-2010, 10:21 PM
[...]What is the difference between God and a lead guitarist?
God doesn't think he's a lead guitarist.
Bingo! :D

buddhuu
01-24-2010, 10:23 PM
pretty sure God prefers the banjo

LOLz! :rofl:

buddhuu
01-24-2010, 10:44 PM
Wow. I don't know where to start. This thread should go down in history as the musical version of racial profiling. As a guitar player of 40+ years, just a few questions for all of you that think that a tiny group of ego-centric guitar players are the standard: How can you make a value judgement about other musicians based on what you read on an internet forum? How many guitarists do you come in contact with on a daliy basis (in real life, NOT on the internet)? BTW, I almost shot coffee out of my nose on the "guitarist" verses "guitar player" bit...so Chet Atkins was a "guitarist" and some kid at Sam Ash playing the same A Major scale over and over on a Strat is a "guitar player"? Who gets to determine that? Howabout Chet and the kid both being either/or guitar players/guitarists..Chet is more enjoyable to listen to by my standards, but, to the kid's friends, he's the deal. I guess we all win.

My answer to this thread is go play some music and quit waxing poetic about how much cooler/nicer/whatever ukulele players are than guitar players. I imagine better skills on everyone's part will lessen the perceived competition/inferiority complex that this thread is languishing in.

Jimmy
Proud guitar player since 1967
Proud ukulele player since 2003

Well, I started playing guitar in 1971. Since that time most of my friends have been musicians, and most of those musicians have been guitarists. I know a few.

I attempt to play quite a range of instruments, thus I frequent quite a range of music forums for various instruments and musical genres.

To compare this discussion (which, in the great scheme of things is trivial) to racial profiling is, IMHO, inappropriate.

The way I see it, many people DO find themselves surprised by the vibe here. Maybe it's due to the nature of the instrument, or maybe it is something about the kind of person who is attracted to it, but I agree with those who have found this place to be relatively free of egomaniacs compared to many other music boards. The few arrogant people that do appear are often long-time players of other instruments who come here but forget to check the baggage they brought with them at the door.

No serious bashing of guitarists would be tolerated here - many, many of us are guitarists. What's more, no serious bashing of anyone is tolerated here. The fact that many of the posters to this thread are recovering guitarists (joke - stay cool) show that the comments reflect what we see in ourselves more than being criticism of others. Uke seems to bring out the mellow in people.

Every now and then people here do get heated, but even then it tends to be less ill-humoured than on many other boards. You want to see uptight? Go post something controversial on a hardcore bluegrass or Irish Trad music forum, but don't forget yr asbestos foundation garments.

Racial profiling of bluegrassers and Irish trad musicians? I don't think so. I am both, and three fingers are pointing back at me with every comment I make.

Lighten up. Members who don't like the thread can certainly go and practice. There is no obligation to participate in threads we don't like. :shaka:

luvdat
01-24-2010, 11:09 PM
Hey buddhuu, can I change my screenname to "hatezemguitarz" ...just joking...trying to lighten things up...self-parody...

I believe they'll be serving breakfast soon in the UU sunroom...even the pancakes are shaped like ukuleles.

Note to self: have fun.

rubenken
01-25-2010, 06:56 AM
Guitar, uke, we're all strung out. Same difference.

Plainsong
01-25-2010, 07:03 AM
But those sax players. They really have it coming. ;)

Skrik
01-25-2010, 09:36 AM
The whole thing with guitarists is phallic. If yours is better than mine, I won't be able to spread my genes, and this is clearly unacceptable, thus guitarists spend their time trying to convince everyone that their setup is the best.

(I play the guitar, but I'm not a guitarist.)

jimmybookout
01-25-2010, 12:31 PM
Well, I started playing guitar in 1971. Since that time most of my friends have been musicians, and most of those musicians have been guitarists. I know a few.

I attempt to play quite a range of instruments, thus I frequent quite a range of music forums for various instruments and musical genres.

To compare this discussion (which, in the great scheme of things is trivial) to racial profiling is, IMHO, inappropriate.

The way I see it, many people DO find themselves surprised by the vibe here. Maybe it's due to the nature of the instrument, or maybe it is something about the kind of person who is attracted to it, but I agree with those who have found this place to be relatively free of egomaniacs compared to many other music boards. The few arrogant people that do appear are often long-time players of other instruments who come here but forget to check the baggage they brought with them at the door.

No serious bashing of guitarists would be tolerated here - many, many of us are guitarists. What's more, no serious bashing of anyone is tolerated here. The fact that many of the posters to this thread are recovering guitarists (joke - stay cool) show that the comments reflect what we see in ourselves more than being criticism of others. Uke seems to bring out the mellow in people.

Every now and then people here do get heated, but even then it tends to be less ill-humoured than on many other boards. You want to see uptight? Go post something controversial on a hardcore bluegrass or Irish Trad music forum, but don't forget yr asbestos foundation garments.

Racial profiling of bluegrassers and Irish trad musicians? I don't think so. I am both, and three fingers are pointing back at me with every comment I make.

Lighten up. Members who don't like the thread can certainly go and practice. There is no obligation to participate in threads we don't like. :shaka:

What I said is that this thread is the musical version of racial profiling. So, to offer your advice back to you: "Stay cool" and "Lighten up". Since using "profiling" was too strong to suit you, I'll put it another way. Whenever you generalize about any group, you are bound to get the vast majority of people in the group you are generalizing dead wrong, which is exactly what is happening here. And you are correct, this whole subject is trivial.

Jimmy

PS. You might want to refrain from telling people to "lighten up" or "stay cool", as most folks will take those comments (as I did) as condescending (much like using the great dismissive "whatever"). I stated my thoughts on the subject, wasn't aggressive or mean spirited.

paraclete
01-25-2010, 01:09 PM
PS. You might want to refrain from telling people to "lighten up" or "stay cool", as most folks will take those comments (as I did) as condescending (much like using the great dismissive "whatever"). I stated my thoughts on the subject, wasn't aggressive or mean spirited.

Peace! Buddhuu is a mod, so he's just trying to keep things cool. Sometimes it's hard to determine the real "mood" of a post without the face-to-face thing. :)

BTW... cool list of parlors you got there!

harpdog
01-25-2010, 03:27 PM
I have a theory about what you have observed about people on guitar forums. I believe several things: There are simply so many MORE of them, that the number of analists will be higher. The other part of this is the longevity of the popularity of guitar - and when the internet opened up a new world of information, so many of them thus began their education about stuff - things like bookmatched quarter-sawn bearclawed tops, fan bracing, x bracing, ladder bracing, different nut widths... a fast and furious elitism developed.
Ukulele popularity seems to have lagged just behind internet popularity almost like a younger sibling. I believe internet has a huge influence on the growth of ukulele love. I also think there are signs that ukulele forums will follow the way of elitism. Sorry, but I think the signs are there.
I was refreshed to play a gig last Saturday with a guy that I hadn't played with before (guitars and 60's music). What was refreshing was his approach using an inexpensive and old laminated wood guitar with a soundhole (magnetic) pickup, giving it all he was worth. No elitism, just enthusiasm. He rocked.

itsme
01-25-2010, 03:38 PM
I also think there are signs that ukulele forums will follow the way of elitism. Sorry, but I think the signs are there.
:agree: There's a form of elitism/cliquishness with just about every instrument. It's quite evident in this thread even. The concept that uke players are somehow better people because they're not snobs about it is snobbery in itself. :p

ukulelearp
01-25-2010, 05:02 PM
:agree: There's a form of elitism/cliquishness with just about every instrument. It's quite evident in this thread even. The concept that uke players are somehow better people because they're not snobs about it is snobbery in itself. :p

Wow, great point. :D

buddhuu
01-25-2010, 10:13 PM
What I said is that this thread is the musical version of racial profiling. So, to offer your advice back to you: "Stay cool" and "Lighten up". Since using "profiling" was too strong to suit you, I'll put it another way. Whenever you generalize about any group, you are bound to get the vast majority of people in the group you are generalizing dead wrong, which is exactly what is happening here. And you are correct, this whole subject is trivial.

Jimmy

PS. You might want to refrain from telling people to "lighten up" or "stay cool", as most folks will take those comments (as I did) as condescending (much like using the great dismissive "whatever"). I stated my thoughts on the subject, wasn't aggressive or mean spirited.

Not looking for an argument with you, Jimmy. Just trying to keep things light while responding to your post - which did invite response.

What you see as condescending was meant light-heartedly and contained a few points intended to address possible areas of tension. Similarly, what I saw as a post implying criticism of this thread and its participants, you tell me was not intended to be mean spirited. There you go, wires get crossed. No biggie.

Elitism and egos are to be found everywhere. Perhaps it is unfortunate that the thread began by focusing on guitarists as a contrast, but I think the point behind it, namely that the vibe surrounding the uke tends to be more relaxed than the ambiance inhabited by many other instruments, certainly corresponds with the experiences of many here.

And I emphasise again that many of us are guitarists as well as 'ukulele players, and most of those guitarists come here and just chill. So, it seems that maybe the difference is not the people, but the culture surrounding the instrument, and the reflection of that culture in the communities that grow up around the instrument. I've spent 10 years or more around online guitar lists and boards. I find this place more tranquil than any of them. No criticism of the people intended (I'm one of 'em), but simply calling the different environments as I see them.

Peace. :shaka:

luvdat
01-25-2010, 11:53 PM
I have a theory about what you have observed about people on guitar forums. I believe several things: There are simply so many MORE of them, that the number of analists will be higher. The other part of this is the longevity of the popularity of guitar - and when the internet opened up a new world of information, so many of them thus began their education about stuff - things like bookmatched quarter-sawn bearclawed tops, fan bracing, x bracing, ladder bracing, different nut widths... a fast and furious elitism developed.
Ukulele popularity seems to have lagged just behind internet popularity almost like a younger sibling. I believe internet has a huge influence on the growth of ukulele love. I also think there are signs that ukulele forums will follow the way of elitism. Sorry, but I think the signs are there.
I was refreshed to play a gig last Saturday with a guy that I hadn't played with before (guitars and 60's music). What was refreshing was his approach using an inexpensive and old laminated wood guitar with a soundhole (magnetic) pickup, giving it all he was worth. No elitism, just enthusiasm. He rocked.

A lot of what you're saying has to do with socioeconomics and personal outlook and especially conclusions drawn about what constitutes a gigworthy instrument. Gigworthy playing matters more...and something like love. This sounds corny in the middle of this discussion but I think it needs to be said.

I also think that instrumental music as a genre spawns more elitists overall (not to say that folks who sing and play win the mensch award everytime). But the word on instrumental music is this: most people like music with singing, and frankly, I think that's the way it is and should be. Singing is more primal, came first in human history and doesn't really depend on instruments (I've sung in a Russian choir). The majority of people and even afficionados? can be somewhat fatigued by instrumentalist virtuousity. I know that I am. Do the masses need to be "educated?" No. People are just being human, not low-brow or stupid. And this is why even great guitarists like Roy Buchnanan never really hit it big and never will really hit it big big and frequently become "guitarists for guitarists." Jim Campilongo: a singularly great Tele player with a sig. model coming out and a great person BTW, check him out on You Tube: how many really know him? Even a lot of guitarists? Frankly overall I really like his backup stuff with Norah Jones. And wasn't that the case with James Burton? I wish Jake S. would do something big with a vocalist. Not Lady Gaga.

Are instrumentalist uke players in risk of becoming uke players for uke players? Yes, but one could say that that's fine. To understand how people feel about truly well-known popular instrumentalists: people's different views on Kenny G. When an instrumentalist really hits it big, what do some (not all) of the elitists have to say?

And so all elitiists (esp. of the instrumentalist variety) whether in full-bloom or in development: welcome to a relatively known but not too well known and frequently lonely place. The final word on elitism (whether guitar or uke variety) is frequently the sound of someone singing. And people like to dance. How low-class is that!

Is it fair to say that even on this forum there can be a tendency to see instrumental playing as "higher" and "more serious" with singing and playing a somewhat more humble aspiration? In short, I not only agree that "signs are there" but they are too frequently seen as landmarks, guideposts and directions.

The irony of course is that instrumental renditions acquire a great deal of their force being recognizable songs the people listeming previously heard how many times with someone singing the lyrics.

Just some thoughts from a uke playing living saint who is also a heartless bastard guitarist.

Mim
01-26-2010, 02:15 AM
One thing I noticed is fewer people play Uke... so, I do not get as many situations like this:

It used to be when I was strumming a long on my guitar, some better guitar player would walk up, ask to play it, play me into the ground, and then hand the guitar back to me. Then I would feel like a sucky guitar player and like I had been "schooled". It would make me just want to put my guitar away. They would not mean it to be mean-spirited... just a sort of "look what I can do" type thing. With the Uke, people are really impressed by even my little 3-chord songs. And all the sings I play sound "fresh" because the Uke is new, light, and happy! I play all the time in my shop and people LOVE it, but I have yet to have someone come in, pick up my Uke (or my 'customer ukes') and make me feel foolish. But as the popularity goes, I know I will happen sometime, just not as often. And everyone I have talked to on this forum so far has been great about supporting the beginner and celebrating our little accomplishments!

brickerenator
01-26-2010, 02:29 AM
The 2 people I like best in this world are avid guitarists (we jam upon occasion)

It's hard to meet a mean ukist, it's also hard to simply meet a ukist.


I note without comment that over on the Clarinet BBoard (http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard), the most recent topic at the moment is "does the clarinet attract players with obsessive personalities (http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=320555&t=320555)".

http://23.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kvq9765iMN1qzsaj1o1_500.jpg

scottie
01-26-2010, 03:09 AM
One of the things that I notice is that people in all forms of internet foruming that involves interests or hobbies is that so many of the posts are about stuff. Stuff is kind of critical to these disciplines, yes? I mean, it's kind of hard to be a ukuleleist without a ukulele, right? or a guitarist without a guitar?

On the one hand, stuff is important but in the end it's only stuff. We buy the best tools we can to get the job done and then, when we're doing the job we transcend our tools and it becomes about what we do as musicians

Lance Armstrong, the cyclist, said it best by way of the title of his book "It's not about the bike". and it's not hard to figure out what he means. It's about us, doing a constructive activity, having fun, submitting to a discipline, entering a dojo or whatever. . . it's about intentionality, will, appreciation. . . in short it's about developing qualities that make us better people.

buddhuu
01-26-2010, 03:38 AM
[...] . . . in short it's about developing qualities that make us better people.

Good thing too, 'cause I can't afford "stuff". :D

jimmybookout
01-26-2010, 04:31 AM
:agree: There's a form of elitism/cliquishness with just about every instrument. It's quite evident in this thread even. The concept that uke players are somehow better people because they're not snobs about it is snobbery in itself. :p

Thank you! What I was trying (and failed) to convey in two different post, you said in three sentences.

Jimmy

austin1
01-26-2010, 06:52 AM
ummmm...how many ukulele players does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

seeso
01-26-2010, 06:56 AM
ummmm...how many ukulele players does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

I don't know, how many?

austin1
01-26-2010, 10:07 AM
urgh...#%^*....three? one for the lightbulb, one to say it's cooler than a guitar, and one to tell seeso that he is SO AWESOME.

I think the joke goes like that, at any rate :D

seeso
01-26-2010, 10:13 AM
Ha! Now that's a good joke!

GreatGazukes
01-26-2010, 10:14 AM
ummmm...how many ukulele players does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

Oh, and here I was thinking it depended on how many were in concert.