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takesuoutswitch
02-16-2010, 02:37 PM
In dominator's website it says that all his tabs were removed by his request...Why? =O

ukulelearp
02-16-2010, 02:42 PM
I heard he's been working on a book of tabs/sheet music.

dnewton2
02-16-2010, 02:51 PM
I am pretty sure he is working on a book of tabs/music.

I am also pretty sure that it is/was Sony and not Jake that ultimatly wanted the tabs removed. There have been threads about this before but I am not sure where they are.

thejumpingflea
02-16-2010, 02:52 PM
It was Sony's doing.

DeG
02-16-2010, 02:57 PM
Jake told me in last June that he thought his tab book would be out in early 2010. Which is now..so, I don't know what the current status is on, but hopefully it will be out soon.

kissing
02-16-2010, 02:57 PM
sigh... ah well, at least on the bright side we'll be able to buy the tabs/music in one properly published book...

pithaya9
02-16-2010, 02:58 PM
It was Sony's doing.

Typical Big Brother tactics. Obviously there are no 'ukulele players in the hierarchy at Sony.

buddhuu
02-16-2010, 11:45 PM
I have to confess that I raised this very topic shortly after I joined UU.

I can kind of see some reason for objecting to tabs on the web if a tab book is planned, but realistically I think people will still buy an official song book even if there are versions on the web. Internet tabs have a deserved reputation for being inaccurate - and sometimes just junk.

The tabs on Dom's site are in a different league to most - it is quality stuff - but even with those tabs there, I don't think the market for a book is seriously threatened.

IMHO, this kind of copyright enforcement is likely to upset fans. I don't think it makes much, if any, difference to the revenue that will be generated by a book.

As has been said, more likely the publishing company's decision than Jake's personally. He seems like a good guy.

pulelehua
02-17-2010, 01:41 AM
This is a nice thread to read after the seeming glut of anti-Jake rhetoric around here of late.

buddhuu
02-17-2010, 02:26 AM
[...] after the seeming glut of anti-Jake rhetoric around here of late.
I must have missed that.

Seriously. I miss plenty of stuff. I'm slow that way...

Melissa82
02-17-2010, 03:33 AM
I must have missed that.

Seriously. I miss plenty of stuff. I'm slow that way...I must be as well.

seeso
02-17-2010, 03:59 AM
This is a nice thread to read after the seeming glut of anti-Jake rhetoric around here of late.

What anti-Jake rhetoric?

hoosierhiver
02-17-2010, 04:42 AM
I always thought Jake was well regarded here.

haolejohn
02-17-2010, 04:57 AM
This is a nice thread to read after the seeming glut of anti-Jake rhetoric around here of late.

Really? I guess in my multiple checks of the threads I missed this. But then again I don't read all the threads. Just the help nme buy an ukulele ones:)

molokinirum
02-17-2010, 05:21 AM
I always thought Jake was well regarded here.

Same feeling here too!! I have not read even one anti Jake thread anywhere!! :confused::confused::confused:

GX9901
02-17-2010, 05:53 AM
This is a nice thread to read after the seeming glut of anti-Jake rhetoric around here of late.

Did you get UU confused with another (UK based) forum?

pithaya9
02-17-2010, 05:54 AM
This is a nice thread to read after the seeming glut of anti-Jake rhetoric around here of late.

What the.............don't think I've seen any of this and I'm here every day.

phanzo
02-17-2010, 06:05 AM
What the.............don't think I've seen any of this and I'm here every day.

Ditto...There may be some folks who feel that Jake's music just isnt for them, but I'm pretty sure I've never seen any Jake-bashing 'round hurr...

BTW, I'm not one of those ppl. I'm looking at a uke signed by Jake right now as I type :D

blueswithafeeling
02-17-2010, 06:10 AM
This is a nice thread to read after the seeming glut of anti-Jake rhetoric around here of late.

Where?! What glut? Give up those links man! The masses are wondering what you are reading! :-)

Seriously though, I haven't seen any anti-Jake rhetoric around here. The only thing "intelligently" negative I've ever read was on a youtube comment that said something along the lines of "people are giving him too much credit - he is just playing guitar riffs on a ukulele". My reaction was just "So what? Don't see how that changes anything - a guitarist doing the same thing as well on a guitar would be as admirable".

RevWill
02-17-2010, 06:45 AM
There's a subtle one here (http://www.ukuleleunderground.com/forum/showthread.php?26630-Why-is-the-Ukulele-being-called-the-Instrument-of-the-21st-Century&p=321865#post321865).


Why is the ukulele being called the instrument of the 21st Century?

....10. Because some guy played a bad Beatles cover with it.

Which doesn't exactly constitute a glut, but still pretty mean.

rasputinsghost
02-17-2010, 07:17 AM
Ukulele Cosmos?

Ukulele JJ
02-17-2010, 07:38 AM
This is a nice thread to read after the seeming glut of anti-Jake rhetoric around here of late.

Tell me about it. Everybody seems to be slamming on Jake lately.

Saying he hit his peak with Donnie Darko, that taking the lead in Prince of Persia was a big sell-out, that his sister got all the talent in the family. It just goes on and on around here!

Oh wait... you were talking about Jake Shimabukuro?!?

Nevermind.

JJ

mailman
02-17-2010, 08:04 AM
I don't remember seeing this anti-Jake stuff either.

I'll be the first to admit that I enjoy listening to Jake, but would not strive to play like Jake....his style and mine are too different. I'm more of a strummer/singer than a lead player/finger-picker/soloist.

That said, I still enjoyed seeing him in person and have bought several of his CDs. Who wouldn't appreciate and admire such obvious talent?

pulelehua
02-17-2010, 10:01 AM
Okay. Okay. Maybe not a glut. BUT THERE WAS SOME! ;) There was that Best Uke Covers Ever thread a while back, and I for one was really surprised that so many people, and prominent people, on the forum were anti-"While My Guitar Gently Weeps".

http://www.ukuleleunderground.com/forum/showthread.php?25912-6-Best-Ukulele-Cover-Songs

And then there was a thread about the same time about the great players, and there were again prominent people saying that he was over-rated, and not as good as he's made out to be. I trolled through 15 pages of threads to find the last one, so sorry, I don't have the second link.

At the time, it struck me as odd that a forum which would probably have far fewer members without Jake would have prominent people saying negative things about him. I mentioned it at the time, and didn't receive anywhere near this much attention!

Sorry if I've ruffled feathers. I'm new to the ukulele forum thing, and don't really spend any time on other ukulele forums. Fora? Forae? Anyhoo, I think Jake is a wonderful player, AS VERY CLEARLY MANY OF YOU DO, TOO!

whetu
02-17-2010, 11:03 AM
Okay. Okay. Maybe not a glut. BUT THERE WAS SOME! ;) There was that Best Uke Covers Ever thread a while back, and I for one was really surprised that so many people, and prominent people, on the forum were anti-"While My Guitar Gently Weeps".

Well... that's not quite anti-Jake now is it? That's "please for the love of the ukulele gods STOP playing that song!", see also: Tiptoe Through the Tulips and I'm Yours :)

(I get where you're coming from though :) )

pulelehua
02-17-2010, 11:41 AM
Well... that's not quite anti-Jake now is it? That's "please for the love of the ukulele gods STOP playing that song!", see also: Tiptoe Through the Tulips and I'm Yours :)

(I get where you're coming from though :) )

Well, you're spoiled. You live in the hometown of the greatest ukulele playing group in the world! Was just watching the Red Bull Studios footage for the umpteenth time today...

whetu
02-17-2010, 12:58 PM
Well, you're spoiled. You live in the hometown of the greatest ukulele playing group in the world! Was just watching the Red Bull Studios footage for the umpteenth time today...

I also buy my ukes from the same shop as some of them ;) I actually rate the Ukulele Orchestra of Great Britain as better, to be honest... but WIUO still rocks!

cornfedgroove
02-17-2010, 01:28 PM
jake's the bomb...

pure genius

ricdoug
02-17-2010, 09:10 PM
I'm pretty sure it's an agreement with Sony. Anyone who's met Jake know that he's a sweetheart of a human. He truly appreciates his audiences and intermigles with them every chance he gets. Ric

ukecantdothat
02-18-2010, 06:54 AM
Even the greatest players get slammed from time to time by those who either don't like flash and percieve it as pretense, or their genre doesn't fit in (some people just HATE jazz or anything close to it, for example). Just look at the backlash Dylan got for plugging in. Pete Seeger actually pulled the plug on the guy (for Pete's sake!!!). Back in the day, I tried to get all my rocker friends to embrace Al DiMeola. Some dug him, the rest thought he sucked. Not, "I don't like this stuff," but, "He sucks." They all thought Santana was out of his mind when he teamed up with John McLaughlin. One review of McLaughlin said he couldn't bend a note to save his life, as if that's what defines great playing. Jeff Beck was even ridiculed by some for going fusion. It's one thing to not like something, but in the obvious case of someone like Jake, one must look under the surface of comments questioning his talent, and take them with the perverbial grain o' salt. A lot of people have a set idea of how a uke should be played, but also how it should be strung, which size, what wood, maker, strapped or not, and even how it ought to be pronounced, so the idea that there is Jake-bashing going on comes as no surprise!

I may have to take up reading tabs when this Jake book comes out.

theaaron
02-18-2010, 10:28 AM
EDITED: SEE PM...

The fans who want to take the time to play and work out transcriptions are usually the biggest fans, so going after them as though they're criminals is incredibly idiotic.

And saying it's Sony's fault doesn't completely remove the blame from Jake. No one forced him to sign with one of the largest, greediest, most impersonal record labels in the world.

ukecantdothat
02-18-2010, 02:13 PM
EDITED: SEE PM...

The fans who want to take the time to play and work out transcriptions are usually the biggest fans, so going after them as though they're criminals is incredibly idiotic.

And saying it's Sony's fault doesn't completely remove the blame from Jake. No one forced him to sign with one of the largest, greediest, most impersonal record labels in the world.I don't know who's been treated like a criminal or not, but a copyright is a copyright, pure and simple. It's hard enough to make money in the music "business" these days, so if a Big Boy like Sony exercises its rights to protect their "product", be it recordings or instructional books, that's their call. Maybe a letter to Sony expressing outrage from Jake's fan base may be in order, but I doubt that would affect decisions made by Sony's legal dept. To "blame" Jake for honoring his contract, or worse yet, for signing with a huge lable, doesn't make sense either. He'd be a fool to turn down a contract with Sony. There's an old saying about dancing with the one who brought you, and Jake is not about to start going rogue in this economic climate. If he doesn't want people beating him to the punch on these tabs, it's perfectly resonable and understandable. Personally, I don't see what the big deal is about people transposing this stuff on their own. It's like doing covers and posting them on YouTube, but that's just me. I'm not the Corporate Giant who's being brought to his knees at every turn in the digital age. It's a brave new world and these cats are shaking like a leaf on a virtual tree. If you can't give 'em a break, at least cut Jake some slack.

theaaron
02-18-2010, 03:01 PM
The fans being treated like criminals are the ones who get threatened for making covers and transcriptions. I just saw where Seeso got threatened again for his YouTube covers. That's absolutely insane. To my knowledge, he doesn't make any money from them; he's just playing music he likes and sharing it with other fans. That type of takedown notice, aand similar notices issued regarding tabs, are hardly protecting a product. If anything, those youtube videos help expose more people to the original artist's work.

Ukulele JJ
02-18-2010, 03:14 PM
If there's a silver lining to any of this, it's that it at least forces people to figure out his songs on their own, using--and improving--their own ears.

Tabs will only help you learn play like Jake. A lack of tabs will help you learn to hear like Jake.

JJ

ukecantdothat
02-18-2010, 04:06 PM
The fans being treated like criminals are the ones who get threatened for making covers and transcriptions. I just saw where Seeso got threatened again for his YouTube covers. That's absolutely insane. To my knowledge, he doesn't make any money from them; he's just playing music he likes and sharing it with other fans. That type of takedown notice, aand similar notices issued regarding tabs, are hardly protecting a product. If anything, those youtube videos help expose more people to the original artist's work.

Just because you're not making money, doesn't mean you're in violation. You're right about the insanity of taking down these covers, but that isn't exactly being treated like a criminal. As far as I know nobody is being threatened with court action for posting harmless uke covers. I said in another like-minded thread I love to see them bring Deach into court for covering Lady Gaga or something. The sight of him before a judge wearing a pink tiara and toting a Spongebob ukulele would bring tears of joy to the Underground.

And another thing... How do they know if someone has permission to cover a song or not, I mean sometimes it's obvious if someone is an amateur and likely doesn't have permission, but in the case of someone like Seeso or Sebi, these guys come off as polished pros who very well may have secured the rights. I didn't notice if they're being asked to show proof, so again forgive my ignorance.

theaaron
02-18-2010, 04:30 PM
You're right about the insanity of taking down these covers, but that isn't exactly being treated like a criminal. As far as I know nobody is being threatened with court action for posting harmless uke covers.

Technically, the YouTube takedown notices are a result of legal action. Harmless fans do get threatened regularly, but YouTube has a buffer in place so that they'll just cancel your account if it gets to that point. When similar videos/songs/tabs are posted on non-YouTube sites, the owners are often the subject of direct legal threats. Many good tab sites, for instance, which are entirely user submitted, have shut down over the past few years thanks to legal threats. Even lyric websites have been threatened with legal action. Note that none of them, to my knowledge, actually went to court. The labels just use these tactics to bully people. A lot of independent artists, on the other hand, encourage fans to remix, share, and cover their music.

That's just one reason I never buy any music that has been released on a major label, but that's a discussion for some other time.

And I don't know if your signature is a reference to Warren Zevon specifically, but I love Warren Zevon (yes, I know he released his music on major labels. But that was a different era...)

itsme
02-18-2010, 05:03 PM
Well, lyrics and music are usually copyrighted, so the copyright holder has every right to ask for removal of anything that infringes.


That's just one reason I never buy any music that has been released on a major label, but that's a discussion for some other time.
Ya know what? ~90% of releases by major labels don't break even, let alone make a profit. By "boycotting" (specifically downloading their tunes off torrents or whatever) you are impacting their ability to sign and promote new and developing or niche artists (like Jake... I'd say he's a "niche" artist) and you are taking money directly out of the artist's pockets.

Am I one of the last people alive who actually still buys CDs/tunes by artists I like?

flea_bitten
02-18-2010, 06:24 PM
By "boycotting" (specifically downloading their tunes off torrents or whatever) you are impacting their ability to sign and promote new and developing or niche artists (like Jake... I'd say he's a "niche" artist) and you are taking money directly out of the artist's pockets.

Am I one of the last people alive who actually still buys CDs/tunes by artists I like?

Probably. I was a buyer until a month ago. I simply stopped and just listen to what i already have, or to the radio or non-copyright stuff instead now. Boycotting is the only means of protest I have.

They have nothing to gain from attacking fans doing covers yet they still behave like bullies. I don't do business with bullies. I find it impossible to feel sorry for a bully. Once they have another solution to their woes than kicking the easy targets I'll be back.

I was dismayed to see the notices about Jake not wanting his tabs available.

Whether its the artist attacking the fans or the corporate behind them doing so - it still makes the artist look bad. As a fan it all feels bad and then the music doesn't sound so good any more.

Amanda

(PS I am part of an artist-published dvd project (http://members.iinet.net.au/~reuham/theunderpassmotel.html), have been in business for 20 years and have had my paintings copied - so I do get both sides of this story. I still don't do business with bullies.)

ukecantdothat
02-18-2010, 06:38 PM
...Note that none of them, to my knowledge, actually went to court. The labels just use these tactics to bully people. A lot of independent artists, on the other hand, encourage fans to remix, share, and cover their music...



And I don't know if your signature is a reference to Warren Zevon specifically, but I love Warren Zevon (yes, I know he released his music on major labels. But that was a different era...)Very good points. The old "cease and dissist" from a bully carries a ton of weight. Indies always see the benefit of free promotion of their "Artists" with a capital "A". The Bigs always want protect their "product" with a small "p." Good call on the Warren Zevon reference! You're the first to pick up on it. It's from the classic "Hula Hula Boys." It means, "Let the story be told." (Or so I'm told...) I doubt if he would be signed today, but then you could say that about any artist from days gone by, right?

GrumpyCoyote
02-18-2010, 07:33 PM
Interestingly - tablature is not protected by copyright. It's covered under "education and tutorial purposes..." The "Sony's doing" explanation doesn't hold water legally. So if you were to take the time to tab them, you could post them at will. Of course that assumes you'd be willing to fight the case if one were to arise.

That's why the tablature sites get away with the free distribution of tabs and chords... It's allowed under copyright law.

itsme
02-18-2010, 07:53 PM
Interestingly - tablature is not protected by copyright. It's covered under "education and tutorial purposes..." The "Sony's doing" explanation doesn't hold water legally. So if you were to take the time to tab them, you could post them at will. Of course that assumes you'd be willing to fight the case if one were to arise.

That's why the tablature sites get away with the free distribution of tabs and chords... It's allowed under copyright law.
Huh? Can I have some of what you've been smoking? Because you are way off the mark here.

GrumpyCoyote
02-18-2010, 08:14 PM
Huh? Can I have some of what you've been smoking? Because you are way off the mark here.

I'm smoking the fair use doctrine and US Copyright Act of 1976 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Copyright_Act_of_1976). You can have as much as you want - it's how the law works.


Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 17 U.S.C. 106 and 17 U.S.C. 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include:

1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.
While not foolproof, non-commercial educational use - especially when limited to something like tablature of a solo, is generally fair use. The burden of proof lies with the defendant however, so it can be difficult to defend - that #4 is usually the killer.

Don't take my word for it. I'm not a lawyer. The nice folks over at the Stanford Law School (http://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/taxonomy/term/374) are though - and they defend such cases. Or if you still think I'm blowing smoke you could look up any of these cases... Gyles v Wilcox, Aguiar v. Webb, Brave New Films v. Viacom, Golan v. Gonzales, Kahle v. Gonzales, Lennon v. Premise Media, Warner Brothers and JK Rowling v. RDR Books, Shloss v. Joyce, and Vargas v. BT... Fair use is pretty well documented.

DogBisquit
02-18-2010, 09:56 PM
Jake actually traded his talent to Rumpelstiltskinn. Don't tell Jake his name - everyone's doing great so far.

Sony? He has been at this for years. He's a nice guy, not an idiot. It looks like he still records locally. That's cool! I don't think his videos could ever be removed from the web. I may be wrong (and haven't checked), but I imagine that the covers are still online.

At a certain point a band stops giving away Tshirts and bumperstickers, and starts selling them. What we appreciate about him are his arrangements, that's his offering. Where is the blame?

DogBisquit
02-18-2010, 10:26 PM
Coming after you? Treating you like a criminal? Threatened? Case to arise? Over what? Removal of a free service? It's not Dominator or Sesso they are after - ultimately it's all of our eyeballs (that's the technical term).

It seems reasonable to me that everyone concerned would want to control whatever assets they collectively, or contractually own. If Little Brother wants to scout the boards, more power to him. He will sell more books this way, regardless of how you feel about it. It's the law of supply and demand, baby.

It hurts my head reading this thread. Aside from all this construed Constitutional Law, how much have you personally put into Jake's pocket? After Sony's (or whoever) take, what have we contributed? I think he is trying to make a living, and deserves it. He might not be the very best at this thing or that, he may not be the first, but Jake Shimabukuro changed the landscape.

upskydowncloud
02-19-2010, 03:39 AM
Got to admit Jake is amazing, inspirational in fact.

I can't wait for his tab book to come out either.

itsme
02-19-2010, 08:01 AM
I'm smoking the fair use doctrine and US Copyright Act of 1976 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Copyright_Act_of_1976). You can have as much as you want - it's how the law works.


Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 17 U.S.C. 106 and 17 U.S.C. 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include:

1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.

While not foolproof, non-commercial educational use - especially when limited to something like tablature of a solo, is generally fair use. The burden of proof lies with the defendant however, so it can be difficult to defend - that #4 is usually the killer.
Actually, I think #3 is a huge factor. "Fair use" does not allow you to use 100% of a work.

The educational aspect doesn't always hold water, either. For example, a teacher can't just photocopy textbooks to pass out to a class.

The publishing associations have gone after tab sites in a big way. OLGA, one of the oldest and biggest tab archives, has been off-line for nearly four years, unable to resolve their legal battles. Numerous other tab sites have been shut down as well.

Here's a N.Y. Times article on the topic:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/21/technology/21ecom.html?_r=1

GrumpyCoyote
02-19-2010, 09:38 AM
Yes - I've read the article - and many others on the subject including the great NPR article. I'm also more than familiar with the OLGA issue. I don't mean to be rude, but I don't need an education on the basics of the subject - I deal with IP issues daily for a living. I'm no expert, but I'm familiar enough with the facts.


The publishing associations have gone after tab sites in a big way. OLGA, one of the oldest and biggest tab archives, has been off-line for nearly four years, unable to resolve their legal battles. Numerous other tab sites have been shut down as well.

They have used harassment and C&Ds, but nothing has ever been to trial. there are dozens of tab-sites who have ignored the threats - nothing has happened so far. UltimateGuitar has essentially told them to go to hell - and no suits have been filed.


Actually, I think #3 is a huge factor. "Fair use" does not allow you to use 100% of a work.
Tablature isn't 100% of the work - it's not even close. In fact, tablature is useless unless you actually hear the song or have "real" notation to support it. There is no rhythm, accompaniment, dynamics, or other notation beyond some rudimentary finger movement. Agin, this is not my opinion - just the way things are. I'm referring to tablature - not lyrics and notation (although arguably they could qualify as well as independent units)


Don't misunderstand my post, I'm not arguing here - just stating the facts to avoid confusion.

Non-profit tablature is defendable under the fair use doctrine as education - although the cost and burden of proof lie with the defendant.

micromue
02-19-2010, 10:11 AM
Tablature isn't 100% of the work - it's not even close. In fact, tablature is useless unless you actually hear the song or have "real" notation to support it. There is no rhythm, accompaniment, dynamics, or other notation beyond some rudimentary finger movement. Agin, this is not my opinion - just the way things are.

Hm, I didnt find any comparable case on the stanford website regarding tablature or another fair use of written notation for educational purpose. I would be interested in any resources on this topic. In european law there is no such thing like a fair use doctrine, so around here a tablature would be a clear violation of national copyright. I find it hard to believe that providing tablature on the internet to a not-specified amount of people could be considered fair use for educational purposes in US law. In my understanding the exclusions in US copyright for educational purposes are meant primarily for face-to-face teaching, not for free-accessible internetarchives. Im NOT arguing, Im really interested in background information because over at the german uke club we had similar discussions and decided to close the tab section over a year ago. :(

tad
02-19-2010, 10:20 AM
Okay. Okay. Maybe not a glut. BUT THERE WAS SOME! ;) There was that Best Uke Covers Ever thread a while back, and I for one was really surprised that so many people, and prominent people, on the forum were anti-"While My Guitar Gently Weeps".

Saying "I don't care for one song Jake does" is not exactly the same thing as BASHING the man.

Personally, I'm not a fan. I've never like virtuosos of any instrument. I'd rather hear people with less technical ability. It sounds better to me when it's not all abstracted and noodly.

But that's just a matter of taste. I still respect his technical abilities, and I went out and saw him when he played at the Kennedy Center last year-- with a buncha other UU members, actually.

But just saying all that, it probably makes me one of the most anti-Jake people here. He's pretty well-regarded on this forum-- and if I recall correctly, he's pretty frequently cited by people around here among the "reasons I started playing" and "ways I convince friends that the uke is a legit instrument."

GrumpyCoyote
02-19-2010, 11:27 AM
Hm, I didnt find any comparable case on the stanford website regarding tablature or another fair use of written notation for educational purpose. I would be interested in any resources on this topic. In european law there is no such thing like a fair use doctrine, so around here a tablature would be a clear violation of national copyright. I find it hard to believe that providing tablature on the internet to a not-specified amount of people could be considered fair use for educational purposes in US law. In my understanding the exclusions in US copyright for educational purposes are meant primarily for face-to-face teaching, not for free-accessible internetarchives. Im NOT arguing, Im really interested in background information because over at the german uke club we had similar discussions and decided to close the tab section over a year ago. :(

Tablature websites haven't been tried in US courts - yet. Any sites that closed did so voluntarily rather that defend. The rest either don't care, or believe they have the law on their side based on the arguments above. The clause section of the doctrine usually quoted is this "teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research..." All three could be argued with a public site dedicated to exchanging tablature. Scholarship and research are not limited to institutions of learning - private citizens here have just as much right to exchange ideas for these purposes.

Some sites force you to sign up as a "student" to read tabs, and as a "teacher" to upload - but others think it unnecessary. The fact that no suit has been filed to date does suggest that prosecution would be nearly as difficult as defending.

Pippin
02-19-2010, 03:01 PM
In dominator's website it says that all his tabs were removed by his request...Why? =O

It was Sony, not Jake.

rav098
02-19-2010, 06:08 PM
he is working on a book of tabs/music.

clayton56
02-19-2010, 09:03 PM
Interestingly - tablature is not protected by copyright. It's covered under "education and tutorial purposes..." The "Sony's doing" explanation doesn't hold water legally. So if you were to take the time to tab them, you could post them at will. Of course that assumes you'd be willing to fight the case if one were to arise.

That's why the tablature sites get away with the free distribution of tabs and chords... It's allowed under copyright law.

This is interesting. Sure chord progressions (and titles) aren't copyrightable. Just melodies and lyrics. But I was told by the folks at Hal Leonard that use of a copyrighted song is not fair use. So you can't sell (or give away) the chord progression of a copyrighted song and identify it by its title without being considered in violation. You CAN use the chord progression from a copyrighted song and use it to make your own song, or you CAN write your own song and give it the same title as a copyrighted song. But you can't use the copyrighted song itself.

You can say "Here's a tune in the style of Yesterday" but you can't say "Here's the chord progression to Yesterday" or "Here's the tab of the melody for Yesterday" without violating copyright.

Courts often change their interpreation of some things so I would be interested to learn what they are saying about this fair use exception.

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I read a little more, and it seems like publishing a song for the purposes of teaching wouldn't help you because it would violate #4, it affects the marketability of the product. Songs are normally published as sheet music so doing it yourself would affect marketability of their version, even if they haven't published one yet.

And tabs are a way of writing down the melody, just as standard notation is. Tabs are just specific to one instrument. There's no rhythm in the notation, but there is in the spacing of the tabs. And whatever you do, if you identify it by title you are making use of their work and are in violation.

I think ukulele tabs should be given an exception because ukuleles are so small.

clayton56
02-19-2010, 09:52 PM
PS, I just ran across this regarding the fair use exception:

Are There Fair Use Guidelines?
There are 3 sets of guidelines for educational uses at nonprofit educational institutions voted on by Congress (print, music, off-air videotaping) and 1 set of guidelines accepted by Congress but not voted upon (multimedia).

doesn't seem to include web publishing by individuals