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hoosierhiver
02-19-2010, 05:03 AM
Everyone probably is already aware of the recent problems with Warner Music/Youtube.

I know some of you also visit guitar or other music forums. I'd like to encourage everyone to help spread this link and encourage others to let Warner Music how we feel.

http://www.wmg.com/contact

leftovermagic84
02-19-2010, 05:11 AM
great link! here's my letter


I wanted to express my disappointment over WMG's takedown notices over several ukulele cover songs in your catalog. I play ukulele and these videos not only serve to encourage my hobby, but have been a great tool for music discovery. These ukulele covers cannot possibly duplicate the complexity of a full studio recording, and the artist's who upload them profit in no way. These uploads serve to point me to new artists which you produce, and only serve to help your business as I pursue and purchase music from artists I would have otherwise not known about. These youtube covers only serve to help you, not hurt you. Please consider leaving hobbyists and their covers alone, as they only serve as viral marketing for you. Thank you.

Ukeffect
02-19-2010, 05:50 AM
Here's mine with a solution...

Gentlemen,
While I do support your right to protect your interests about the current YouTube song cover removals, I feel you are going about it the wrong way. If I might suggest a more friendly solution, instead of forcing the removal of some really good interpretations of great music, either, offer to let people do covers for a small fee, or better yet, offer a link to the music in question from the original artists with an option to the consumer to purchase the original song. I think the latter move would not only erase the bad press you ARE recieving, it would open up a whole new cash stream for your corporation, which is obviously in need of every sale you can get. This would be a win/win situation for you and would encourage great songs to become even more popular. Since todays market can be fickle, older songs could get a new life and become in demand again. Instead of losing money just tracking these cover artists down and removing thier works, you could be making money through them! Thank you for your attention in this matter.

:anyone:

Citrus
02-19-2010, 06:44 AM
I would advise to keep your e-mails brief on this by the way. Whoever is getting this will notice the number of e-mails rather than how well positioned your stance is.

Teek
02-19-2010, 06:54 AM
I'd be more likely to tell them to get their heads out of their collective a$$es so they can see the mess they've made of their own feet by shooting them off! It's a uke fer crying out loud, not as noted a full studio session. If anything if a viewer likes the song they will tend to seek out the original.Just makes me want to support Warner's artists as little as possible, and I'd be more inclined to get a song they own through file sharing than through buying it because of this.

MoreUke
02-19-2010, 07:35 AM
I think folks writing Warner Music is a good start. Passing the message on to other music forums and interested parties makes it even better. Businesses and some percentage of musicians are like most of us. They want the most they can get.

Last night after reading Seeso's post about copyright infringement notices on his covers posted on YouTube is sad at least to me. I'll pass on going into the litany of what's wrong with the practice. Instead focusing on what can be done to help change this practice. Most intelligent corporations want to avoid bad public relations. Primarily because it cuts into their bottom line.

What I think would be effective is to start a website based on Music to Boycott. The website would have 3 categories. By corporation, musician, and song. Then a link to show the copyright infringement notice put out by YouTube of the specific cover.

This would enable folks purchasing music to have reference to 'greedy to a fault' music. It will also show corporations and musicians that lists are being compiled for easy reference to the consumer community. Which in turn might very well impact their sales and consequently their bottom line.

There will naturally be folks arguing that excerpts of the actual recorded songs and/or videos that have gotten copyright infringement notices should also be listed. Many of the arguments will be powerful. But I strongly believe that in the end just listing those covers that have gotten copyright notice violations would be the most powerful.

Word of this website could be spread through music forums and emails to interested people. I imagine that there exist a population of folks that play multiple instruments.

Have a Great Day,
Jim

MoreUke
02-19-2010, 07:47 AM
To Warner Music:

You companies policies of filing copyright infringement notices of folks who are hobbyist musicians and playing your songs are hurting your bottom line. I haven't seen one positive comment by folks buying your production based on this policy. But I have seen a LOT of negative comments and undoubtedly will translate to reduced sales for you. Me being one.

People trying to pick out pieces on a harmonica, guitar, ukulele, or whatever. Do you really expect they will cut into your sales? Au contraire. Their attempts at particular pieces might refire interest in the piece. Resulting in new purchases for you.

RyanMFT
02-19-2010, 08:04 AM
Here is what I wrote;

I want to express my disappointment at Warner demanding that people remove videos that show amature musicians playing, enjoying, and sharing their interpretations of songs they love....songs which Warner happens to own the publishing rights. I am a ukulele player and I learn from others on Youtube.....ukulele players profit in no way from posting a video to share their abilites (or lack thereof).

It seems that in Warner's effort to protect publishing rights, you forget that we are the fans of music, we buy music and no one posting a ukulele version of "Hotel California" or the like is taking anything away from Warner. Please reconsider and don't forget what music is all about.

Ryan

cornfedgroove
02-19-2010, 09:31 AM
did this right after you posted the link on other thread...before you posted this new one

Monkeyswithladders
02-19-2010, 09:46 AM
Here's my letter:


Dear Warner Music Group,

I hate you and hope you die in a tar pit.

With love,
Jonny

HoldinCoffee
02-19-2010, 10:13 AM
Here's my letter:

Dear Warner Music Group,

I hate you and hope you die in a tar pit.

With love,
Jonny

This one's my favorite so far.

casetone2514
02-19-2010, 10:17 AM
Although many of us are angry with WMG, I feel that the letter writing campaign needs to be specific, constructive and polite to be effective. With this in mind, I have adapted Leftovermagic84s letter and sent it via email. If you cannot think of what to write or how to write it or if you are so incensed that all that you want to say is abusive, you could do worse than copy and paste that letter and send it to the link provided by Hoosierhiver with any additions of your own. Here's my adaptation that I sent today:

I wanted to express my disappointment over WMG's takedown notices over several ukulele cover songs in your catalogue. I play ukulele and these videos not only serve to encourage my hobby, but have been a great tool for music discovery. These ukulele covers cannot possibly duplicate the complexity of a full studio recording, and the artist's who upload them profit in no way from them. Furthermore, they are usually fan tributes to the original artistes. These uploads have served to point me to new artists, some of which you produce, and only serve to help businesses like yours as I pursue and purchase music from artists I would have otherwise not known about. These Youtube covers serve to help you, not harm you or your artistes. Please consider leaving hobbyists and their covers alone, as they act as viral marketing for your business and your artistes and, in no way, compete with you or detract from your business opportunities. Thank you.

Monkeyswithladders
02-19-2010, 10:48 AM
By the way, my letter was less serious because I really don't think you can reason with a corporation. Their only responsibility is to their shareholders, and the only place to bargain with them is on the bottom line. I appreciate the sentiment here, but doubt its effectiveness.

As a reasonable person, I completely agree that it's more effective in conversation to politely say, "you're actually hurting your profits by taking down covers for x and y reasons... etc..." However to a huge corporation, I think politeness is just much more easily ignored and I seriously doubt they're in the business of taking suggestions all of a sudden. A bunch of people standing outside their offices with pitchforks and torches and shouting obscenities might be less polite, but I honestly think it'd be more effective.

paraclete
02-19-2010, 11:22 AM
Does anyone know..... does YouTube pay ASCAP and BMI licensing fees?

Here's what I think might be more of the bottom line: What kind of profit does YouTube see for hosting copyright-violating covers of songs? I don't think that WB and others are going after individual cover artists who are doing this as a hobby. They are going after the hosting platform. YouTube, in turn, sidesteps and makes the individuals remove the material.

So is it going to help to go after the record company, or should we be focusing our energy on getting YouTube to settle and get the licensing it needs?

Just a thought that came to me in the shower today....

DoctorFinlay
02-19-2010, 12:52 PM
Although many of us are angry with WMG, I feel that the letter writing campaign needs to be specific, constructive and polite to be effective. With this in mind, I have adapted Leftovermagic84s letter and sent it via email. If you cannot think of what to write or how to write it or if you are so incensed that all that you want to say is abusive, you could do worse than copy and paste that letter and send it to the link provided by Hoosierhiver with any additions of your own. Here's my adaptation that I sent today:

I wanted to express my disappointment over WMG's takedown notices over several ukulele cover songs in your catalogue. I play ukulele and these videos not only serve to encourage my hobby, but have been a great tool for music discovery. These ukulele covers cannot possibly duplicate the complexity of a full studio recording, and the artist's who upload them profit in no way from them. Furthermore, they are usually fan tributes to the original artistes. These uploads have served to point me to new artists, some of which you produce, and only serve to help businesses like yours as I pursue and purchase music from artists I would have otherwise not known about. These Youtube covers serve to help you, not harm you or your artistes. Please consider leaving hobbyists and their covers alone, as they act as viral marketing for your business and your artistes and, in no way, compete with you or detract from your business opportunities. Thank you.

I used your letter as a template for my letter. Thanks!

lonsilog
02-19-2010, 03:33 PM
Here's mine with a solution...

I used your letter as a template.




To Warner Music Group,

Please let me share videos of my pathetically poor attempts to sing some of my favorite songs on YouTube?! I am not a great singer or musician, but I enjoy listening to my favorite songs, and equally enjoy singing while I play a piano, guitar, or ukulele. I would like to post them on youtube for my family and friends to view. I can send you a sample of this, but I don't want to ruin your apetite. After hearing me, you will no longer wonder if I will take away from your profits. I do not profit from this little personal project, and I can show you a picture of my car to prove it.

I do not plan to post the actual music video, or even snippets of the song. If I may, I would like to suggest an option as a link on the videos to purchase the song through iTunes, since I've seen these links on some videos on YouTube already. Think about it... this is FREE publicity for you, and YOU get ALL the profits. I wouldn't mind if you shared some my way, but at least consider this potentially viable and mutually beneficial option. I don't believe it will cause a loss to your company, and if anything it will be a win/win solution for everyone.

What do you think? Please consider this sincere request.

P.S. I can also show you my extensive CD and DVD collection, many are products of WMG. I support your interests, so please support mine. Thank you.

pithaya9
02-19-2010, 04:49 PM
By the way, my letter was less serious because I really don't think you can reason with a corporation. Their only responsibility is to their shareholders, and the only place to bargain with them is on the bottom line. I appreciate the sentiment here, but doubt its effectiveness.

As a reasonable person, I completely agree that it's more effective in conversation to politely say, "you're actually hurting your profits by taking down covers for x and y reasons... etc..." However to a huge corporation, I think politeness is just much more easily ignored and I seriously doubt they're in the business of taking suggestions all of a sudden. A bunch of people standing outside their offices with pitchforks and torches and shouting obscenities might be less polite, but I honestly think it'd be more effective.

I would have to agree with you, big corps. could care less.

Melissa82
02-19-2010, 04:53 PM
I would have to agree with you, big corps. could care less.They don't care until you get them where it hurts. For some reason, that is YouTube for them right now, so they are attacking that.

ukecantdothat
02-19-2010, 05:03 PM
Here's my letter...

Dear Warner Musak Dudes,

Why don't you back the f up outta Deach's grille, already? What he do to you? Anyway?

Sincerely,
ukecantdothat

sebi
02-19-2010, 08:03 PM
Here's my letter...

Dear Warner Musak Dudes,

Why don't you back the f up outta Deach's grille, already? What he do to you? Anyway?

Sincerely,
ukecantdothat

My fav letter :D

clayton56
02-19-2010, 08:34 PM
Here's mine:

Regarding the recent protests by those doing covers of your music on YouTube, I support you 100%, but my idea would be - why not capitalize on the trend - create a video site with a membership fee to post and view such videos. You could also offer the original song, include lyric sheets, chord charts, tabulature charts, etc. all for sale.

And you can sell banner advertising as well.

Each uploader would have to agree to your terms, that, once they upload, you own it.

YouTube may well create a portion of their site for this purpose in collaboration with you. Or start your own.

Because the music delivery system is changing doesn't mean you can't take advantage of the new trends - mp3's, video, etc.

I hope you can think of a way to allow these hobbyist/budding musicians to perform these songs, and then CROSS SELL THE HECK OUT OF IT.

Thanks for listening

Jonathan Smith

www.musicstudents.com

casarole45
02-19-2010, 10:19 PM
Pleeeeease keep your emails polite and constructive. By emailing offensively or aggresively all you are doing is hurting the cause we are working so hard to fight for!

this also serves as a thread bump, common people help support your cause!

micromue
02-19-2010, 10:30 PM
As a reasonable person, I completely agree that it's more effective in conversation to politely say, "you're actually hurting your profits by taking down covers for x and y reasons... etc..." However to a huge corporation, I think politeness is just much more easily ignored and I seriously doubt they're in the business of taking suggestions all of a sudden. A bunch of people standing outside their offices with pitchforks and torches and shouting obscenities might be less polite, but I honestly think it'd be more effective.

I second that. Now, where is my pitchfork...

adellethegreat
02-20-2010, 03:03 AM
I really think this is a great idea... however, I think maybe we should think about a better way to go about it. Warner Bros doesn't care what we think- I'm pretty sure that point got brought up already. If we want them to pay any attention to us, I think that a mass email campaign released all in one day is a better shot. To get them to take notice we need to hit them all at once- let them see how big our numbers are. Let's get everyone we can on board- not just from UU- but from Youtube, any other music forums any of you frequent, your friends, your family, that extra email account you made... let's pick a day, pick a form email we can all send individually, and do it. Any thoughts? If it sounds good to you guys- let's make a plan.

sebi
02-20-2010, 03:58 AM
I really think this is a great idea... however, I think maybe we should think about a better way to go about it. Warner Bros doesn't care what we think- I'm pretty sure that point got brought up already. If we want them to pay any attention to us, I think that a mass email campaign released all in one day is a better shot. To get them to take notice we need to hit them all at once- let them see how big our numbers are. Let's get everyone we can on board- not just from UU- but from Youtube, any other music forums any of you frequent, your friends, your family, that extra email account you made... let's pick a day, pick a form email we can all send individually, and do it. Any thoughts? If it sounds good to you guys- let's make a plan.

Sounds great to me. Count me in!

grammy
02-20-2010, 04:18 AM
the only way to actually get the m to take notice is bad publicity. A few hundred people watching a rant on you tube does nothing, an article in the NYT, the Guardian, CNN or some other large news organisation is great but not the only way to do that. how you get their attention i don't know but i guess article submission and other SEO type activities will cause the issue to trend, getting more attention etc

smithpaul60
02-20-2010, 04:18 AM
I understand those that feel they have to be rude to be heard, at least i can understand how you feel. However you are wrong, when you come across as rude and brusque it i MUCH easier to ignore. Think about you on experiences, have you EVER listened to someone who was rude to you, or did you immediately dismiss their comments. Many of you probably let it result in a verbal barrage that even further reduced it's effectiveness. When you send your e-mail message it is not "the corporation" who reads you message, but rather a lower level "customer service rep." who probably gets paid less than $35,000 a year. You are sending it to a PERSON, who in turn decides whether or not to forward it. If you are rude i can guarantee that they simply spend one second to hit the delete key without a second thought of you or your plight. This should be enough "reason" for you to see why you are wrong.

just for extra measure check out the link (http://notalwaysright.com/why-it-pays-to-be-nice/1277)

So, if we are going to send any message, let us send a message that says we understand their rights and want to work together so we can all get what we want. let us be upfront and honest but also polite and respectful. If we can get enough people to send this message, then WMG will have no choice but to listen as we would represent a large faction of their customer base. That is our true power.

if you can't think of what to say then i recommend one of the first two reply's to this post on page one, both were well written and convey honesty, intelligence, and respect.

WWID = what would IZ do?

smithpaul60
02-20-2010, 04:27 AM
I really think this is a great idea... however, I think maybe we should think about a better way to go about it. Warner Bros doesn't care what we think- I'm pretty sure that point got brought up already. If we want them to pay any attention to us, I think that a mass email campaign released all in one day is a better shot. To get them to take notice we need to hit them all at once- let them see how big our numbers are. Let's get everyone we can on board- not just from UU- but from Youtube, any other music forums any of you frequent, your friends, your family, that extra email account you made... let's pick a day, pick a form email we can all send individually, and do it. Any thoughts? If it sounds good to you guys- let's make a plan.

I think this is a great idea, however we will need to get other forums involved as well as you can probably expect about a 10% active rate. I think with the reasources here nd getting other forums involved if we can snowball this thing then we have a good chance of being heard. Again we need to be polite about it in the form letter.

adellethegreat
02-20-2010, 04:29 AM
Smithpaul, I completely agree with you. Being rude will get us nowhere. And it will be just some dude somewhere who has no real power receiving these emails... that's why I believe sending the same message from as many people as we can get is the best way to go. They can't help but take notice if one day they recieve X amount of emails all with the same subject line & message from all over the world. The only thing that will scare them is the thought of losing a large portion of their customer base. We need to get more than just uke players on this- give ourselves some time to get organized- and start a campaign. If we can get big enough numbers & at that point WB still ignores us- then there's the possibility of bringing it to the media. At that point we would have a story to give them... WB is doing this & X amount of people believe it's wrong & have started a protest/letter writing campaign. In my opinion, that would be a more interesting story & more likely to be printed.

Monkeyswithladders
02-20-2010, 08:28 AM
I agree with Adelle on this big time- mostly the part about building a marketable story more likely to be covered by the media.

And to clarify what I was saying, the issue is completely about what can and can't be ignored by a company. Most corporations use software that weeds out emails with certain words, phrases, and topics (I wouldn't be surprised if warner already has "copyright" emails blocked after the amount of youtube issues this year). Record companies aren't in the business of taking suggestions, and while we might be getting an individual through our emails, the solid fact remains that the emails that do make it through are not going to be tugging on the logical strings of the reader before he passes it up the chain-- they'll have to make an impression on the bottom line (like Adelle pointed out, in numbers or in bad publicity).

So basically, I couldn't agree more that the best action is to make this into a story that's worth publishing. We should totally set up an event (on a historical day for further marketability of the story) to mass email Warner, post it on facebook, get fans, and post bumps to it on our youtube pages. Set it up far enough into the distance to get maximum exposure before the email date. That's something the media could pick up and run with, or at least catch the attention of the blogosphere.


P.S. on another tangent note, I'm opposed to the ideas of getting youtube to pay the copyright fees, set up a warner website on their terms, or any plan to give Warner what they want on this. I think they're smart ideas and really doing a good job to think of alternative plans to help the issue, but ultimately I feel that it will just prolong the lives of these dinosaurs and the change that will happen when they finally die. There are other corporations that embrace the youtube phenomenon-- those are the ones worth compromising with, not the ones thrashing their tails against new movements. We'd only be giving credibility and funds to outdated beliefs.