mangorockfish
Well-known member
Can someone explain to me the term "reentrant"? Thank you.
Reentrant
- Thread starter mangorockfish
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DaveVisi
Well-known member
re·en·trant also re-en·trant (r - n tr nt). adj. Reentering; pointing inward.
In Ukulele music it refers to the fourth string being tuned an octave *above* the usual. So for a typical GCEA tuning, the high G is what makes it "reentrant"
Okay, my explanation sucks. Here's what Wikipedia has to say:
In Ukulele music it refers to the fourth string being tuned an octave *above* the usual. So for a typical GCEA tuning, the high G is what makes it "reentrant"
Okay, my explanation sucks. Here's what Wikipedia has to say:
MTGuru
Well-known member
Yes, the Wiki is pretty clear.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reentrant_tuning
It basically just means that the strings are tuned out of order. Instead of the expected low-to-high or high-to-low sequence, at one point the pitch jumps up or down in the "wrong" direction.
So on the uke, you go from the high 1st string (A) to the lower 2nd string (E) to the lower 3rd string (C). When you get to the 4th string, you'd expect the pitch to keep going down. Instead, it jumps up to G - a note that actually sits between the 1st and 2nd strings. That jump is the reentry.
In effect, a "low" string (G) is tuned higher than some "higher" strings (C and E). Voilà - reentrant tuning.
If there were a 5th string, 6th string etc. on the uke, you could start going down again from the 4th string G to lower and lower pitches. The G string would be the new starting point to "reenter" (= restart) the expected high-to-low sequence. Hence the term.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reentrant_tuning
It basically just means that the strings are tuned out of order. Instead of the expected low-to-high or high-to-low sequence, at one point the pitch jumps up or down in the "wrong" direction.
So on the uke, you go from the high 1st string (A) to the lower 2nd string (E) to the lower 3rd string (C). When you get to the 4th string, you'd expect the pitch to keep going down. Instead, it jumps up to G - a note that actually sits between the 1st and 2nd strings. That jump is the reentry.
In effect, a "low" string (G) is tuned higher than some "higher" strings (C and E). Voilà - reentrant tuning.
If there were a 5th string, 6th string etc. on the uke, you could start going down again from the 4th string G to lower and lower pitches. The G string would be the new starting point to "reenter" (= restart) the expected high-to-low sequence. Hence the term.
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heyjude
Well-known member
Good explanations so I'll just add this. The high G in reentrant tuning is written g not G so a uke with reentrant tuning would be written gCEA and the low G tuning is written GCEA. Sometimes a tab sheet will state tune uke to GCEA or gCEA. Now you know what that means.
Jude
Jude
MTGuru
Well-known member
I suspect that's a relatively recent convention in the age of the Internet and uke tabs. Older books and music just show GCEA / ADF#B, and assume you know that your dog has fleas.
But you're right, it's definitely handy to distinguish the high g and low G. And the lower/upper case is similar to its use for the octaves in ABC notation - another Internet age phenom.
Coconut Willie
Well-known member
Thanks for the information, I did not know this at all. Hey, I really learned something today!!
This calls for a drink!!
This calls for a drink!!
I have read posts on UU which offer differing opinions on this point; so much so that I'm still unsure what to believe. Some say "g" means low, some say "G" means low. Some say "g" means high, some say "G" means high.
If I were to look at it intuitively, I would think "g" was low and "G" was high. I'm not sure at this point which school of thought to believe, or what it would take to make me believe it....
GrumpyCoyote
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There is no universal standard convention here (although I do wish there were). Some write it one way, some the other - some don't bother.
MTGuru
Well-known member
This comes up in ABC Notation, too. Conceptually, small letters are lighter = higher pitch. Big letters are heavier = lower pitch. Pretty intuitive, actually, and at least the gCEA convention is consistent with that.
I would offer this; the "g" is "lower case", which suggests LOW. The "G" is "upper case", which suggests HIGH. The lower case g hangs lower on the line of text, suggesting LOW, while the upper case G remains higher relative to the line of text, suggesting HIGH. Intuitive, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder, I guess. Arguements can be made for both sides. I wish there was a difinitive answer....
Ukulele JJ
Super Moderator
Yes, but on a reentrantly-tuned ukulele, the G is in the same octave as the C, E, and A. In ABC notation, it would therefore be uppercase, just like the other notes. It's the G directly above middle-C.
If you wrote it as "g", then it would actually mean a G that's an octave higher than a high-G uke string (or two octaves higher than a low-G).
JJ
MTGuru
Well-known member
Ah, I thought you might say that ...
Remember, the terms "upper" case and "lower" case have nothing to do with the size of the letters! In the days of manual typesetting, movable-type letters were kept sorted in slanted trays or cases. The small letters, being more commonly used, were kept at the bottom end of the case - the lower case - for easier access. The large letters, less common, were stored at the top end of the case - the upper case.
Of course you're right, it's possible to think about this either way. But there are least two widespread pitch notation systems out there - ABC Notation, and Helmholtz Pitch Notation - that use the convention G = low and g = high. So there's no need to re-invent the wheel. That won't stop anyone from trying, though.
MTGuru
Well-known member
Sure, that's right. If gCEA were actually ABC notation, that 4th string would be very, very tight! Normal high tuning would be written GCEA and low tuning G,CEA.
Hey, it's an analogy, not a perfect analogy ...
Ah, I thought you might say that ...
Remember, the terms "upper" case and "lower" case have nothing to do with the size of the letters! In the days of manual typesetting, movable-type letters were kept sorted in slanted trays or cases. The small letters, being more commonly used, were kept at the bottom end of the case - the lower case - for easier access. The large letters, less common, were stored at the top end of the case - the upper case.
Of course you're right, it's possible to think about this either way. But there are least two widespread pitch notation systems out there - ABC Notation, and Helmholtz Pitch Notation - that use the convention G = low and g = high. So there's no need to re-invent the wheel. That won't stop anyone from trying, though.
You are obviously much better versed on this than I am. I had never heard of either of these notation systems. JJ makes a good point, though, about gCEA not complying with their "rules".
I still am not convinced; the jury's still out, at least for me.
arashi_nero
Well-known member
I learned something new today, too! As for the notation problem, if people used standard octave notation, there would be no issues. Middle C is written "C4". If you wanted to be 100% accurate, you would use that notation. If the C in the uke tuning is C4, the notation for high G tuning would be G4 C4 E4 A4 and low G would be G3 C4 E4 A4. Usually the use of upper case and lower case denotes Major (upper case) and minor (lower case).
lonsilog
Well-known member
I've seen both nomenclature used. It may be safest to just say "low-G" or "hi-G" to define your tuning and avoid any confusion.
Either way, it doesn't change the fact that my dog has fleas.
Either way, it doesn't change the fact that my dog has fleas.
I think you're right about that (sigh). I had hoped there would be a black-and-white, right-or-wrong answer to the issue, and that we'd get to the bottom of it. Oh, well....
