Advice?

This forum is used as a sounding board for amateur/enthusiasts who on the surface, appear to want building advice. I and other FT builders are happy to give it. However I have noticed that in many cases what is pimped out as a request for 'advice' is actually a plea for 'qualification'. I've pm'd people several times on this and other forums advising strongly against their intentions or correcting inappropriate advice, rather than 'dis' anyone publicly and you know what? It is nearly always ignored because it's not advice that is being sought but a gentle stroking of the ego...

Can I suggest, so that I and others don't waste our time that if you simply want a rubber stamp on your hair brained ideas (because in most cases the desire to re-invent the wheel creates the 'dog's dinner' scenario) that you simple state it instead of dressing it up as a plea for help. For instance -

I want to use x finishing process 'cos I believe it's the right way to go. If you disagree, don't bother posting because I'll ignore it anyway and do my own thing. Only when it has gone horribly wrong will I have the humility to ask for your advice and then I'll probably ignore it again because someone elsewhere agrees with my corrective strategy
:deadhorse:

And folks - I'm not kidding! It takes time out to participate in this forum and if all you want to do is publicise your 'new' ideas, label them as such. I am open to learning new tricks and read everything printed here just in case. Don't waste our time if all you want is a pat on the back - you'll get that if the idea is worth having.

I've noticed this happening also. I won't say it's an ego thing, but I do wonder why people ask questions -- not just in the builder's area -- if they don't really want to hear the answers.


I don't know how to change people though, Pete. You are a valuable resource here. I encourage you to continue to give your advice and hope for the best. Lots of us read what you write even if we don't do any building. It's nice that your share your knowledge.

"stroking the ego" "hair brained ideas"... I dunno Pete, that's kinda harsh. What finishing process are you referring to btw? What a sour note to start the day on... bummer...

As an amateur/newbie/ignoramus who just this hour posted his first thread here in the forum, I speak for the lesser qualified, but less brazen half, suggesting that what appears to the experienced as"reinventing the wheel", to the ignorant (and I mean that self referentially in the academic sense) this is a process of blindly discerning the wheel's form- plainly, if you don't know the convention, the question is asked in earnest, not arrogance. For example the finishing thread I just posted was based on my trying to form a strategy from what I have read that combines processes I am already familiar with materials and supplies I have on hand in hopes of a desired outcome. Apart from the folks like you quoted above, I would encourage you to be patient with the uneducated.
Thank You!

Not sour - it has to be said as it is. Personally this is a source of great frustrtation for someone like myself who wants people to succeed and not make all the mistakes I did. I give advice privately in the hope that taking it off board shows a degree of sincerety and tact on my part coupled with a desire to see success whilst avoiding embarassment. Contrary to what you might think, I wholeheartedly endorse anyone's attempt to try building and examine the options. You will know from previous posts by me that I am against Kasha bracing, sound ports and CF re-inforced necks on all but the spongiest of Cedar. I discount re-invention for what is in reality a folk instrument. I am happy to stand with my peers and argue the point - what works for you? keep doing it. Nevertheless there is much theorising where there need be none... just observe and copy - it's a safe harbour that produces good results.

If you read my post you will see that I am against naming names and I mention other forums. I don't want to single anyone out. That is why I take what i consider to be serious issues or misrepresentation off board. This is more a plea for a bit more honesty when it comes to people asking for advice when actually they are not.

If you feel offended by the post I am sorry - it was not meant to be so. However, I will leave it as it stands rather than take it down as I stand by it.

Pete- may I suggest a series of tutorials on traditional/vernacular methods? I am sure there are more than me who are looking to celebrate this as a folk-instrument, and tire of wading through the endless threads about vinyls, polys, etc.

It is reasonable to offer the occasional reminder that a novice should not try to reinvent the wheel...reinvention requires a full understanding of the current one. I remember in preaching class...they told you, "this is how you preach...these are the rules. You will learn to preach by the rules, until you understand the rules well enough to know when you can break them properly" How do you think lawyers make a living exploiting the law? Young enthusiast...dont try to reinvent the wheel just yet. If you would like to try, do it on your own because every builder is going to tell the young builder how to build by the rules.

It takes alot of time, knowledge, skill and experience to have that understanding. There is a significant investment of people's lives into this so it would be frustrating having young enthusiasts inquire of things and then not take sound advice into account. The inquiries are not frustrating, but rather the fact that they disregard the information/advice given to them in response to their question. That behavior causes you to question one's motivation for the question...and I think Pete's right. Sometimes people seek validation rather than advice. We all seek validation, just dont put it in the form of "hey, I need help with this..."

I cant tell you the countless times that people come to me with their problems (occupational hazard)...you can tell them all you want what the real issues are and how to fix them, but they arent going to do anything about it until they figure it out for themselves. After a while, I find myself saying "Look, YOU came to ME...you want help or not?"

just pitchin pennies here

Pastor,
Two thoughts come to mind here
"you cannot run until you first learn to walk"
and "there is nothing new under the sun"-
that said, many of these questions are generated out of a desire to learn rather than a desire to re-invent. I would suggest however, that in my experience- some of the great banjo-players/makers and preachers I have known have learnt from doing- "learning from your own mistakes" while learning from elders- What you propose is "learning from others mistakes before making your own"- in which there is great wisdom but little practicality when undertaking a creative endeavor. I grew up with a loving Southern Mother who taught me everything and thought that was the way, and a Old Yankee dad who thought the proper way was to let me observe him doing something, do it myself, and then tell me what I had done wrong- mom always wanted me to understand to get it right the first time...
And as necessity is the mother of invention, in the folk instrument world, while there are regional traditions, generally instruments were crafted through a series of trials and errors, and observations of other instruments, with materials on-hand.
It is a "modern" idea that there are prescribed and thus "correct" means for doing a job, we should look to our fore bearers and consider that stripped of luxury what works is what is best.

Now I know where all the drama on UU is
I'm not sure how to comment on things like this. Some just seek advise to hear others talk. It is frustrating when someone asks for advise and then doesn't listen to advise. The goal though is to see improvement. Is change needed? If it is is it happening?

I guess I'm pretty much on my own when I say that the ukulele has eveolved to a perfect point. I'm sure some of my contemporaries will vehemently disagree. It really is different strokes for different folks. However, this is not the basis of my thread... I thought I had pretty much done all the tutorials one can do apart from the yet to be seen 'grading klits' (sic).

The acceptable imperfection of the Uk is what makes it so perfect to many-

architectom said:

The acceptable imperfection of the Uk is what makes it so perfect to many-

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I am not at all sure what that crack means, but I sure hope it doesn't mean this thread is going to end badly. A lot of us beginnners value Pete's immense contributions to the craft. He spoke his mind on something that was bothering him. Maybe we can leave it at that. I can symptathize with his view, since I can not even imagine spending a lot of time answering questions in my field for free, especially if the people getting the answers ignored all of them. In truth some of my clients do ignore my advice (I am a consultant), but I charge them dearly for the right to do so. Of course what I do for a living isn't nearly as much fun as building ukes.

Too deep a discussion for me...I'm off out for a Bike ride..and then the Pub.

Not a crack- a opinion to the contrary- though I respect Pete's as an expert one.
My statement meant simply, that as a folk instrument many (I included) value the Ukulele because it can be enjoyed perfectly and imperfectly, without the snobbery that accompanies so many other instruments-
Loosen your collar sweet cheeks.

Kewl that you posted this! I am a beginner and also new on the forum. After reading some of the "questionable help wanted type posts" I began to feel a bit intimidated. "I think...hmmm, that guy is a beginner? then I must be an idiot!" But I suspect these posts are more "intellectual masturbation" than anything else...so I plod onward.

... and it bothers me too because I feel they are rubbing my nose with my lack of knowledge.
So to those who are guilty of Pete's accusation ..."Have a nice day!" (N)

In the mean time , the advice I get on this forum is invaluable because...wait for it......... It saves me mucho dollars during the learning process which allows me to pursue this as a hobby which I wouldn't beable to do other wise. I still feel some of you guys are holding back though. Pete?!

Anyway ...Thanks. Much appreciated and don't stop because of otheres who do not.

architectom said:

Not a crack- a opinion to the contrary- though I respect Pete's as an expert one.
My statement meant simply, that as a folk instrument many (I included) value the Ukulele because it can be enjoyed perfectly and imperfectly, without the snobbery that accompanies so many other instruments-
Loosen your collar sweet cheeks.

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Glad to hear that it wasn't a crack. I guess it was the spelling that got me. I read Uk as UK, but now I see that is not what you meant at all - my bad! I need new reading glasses.

Timbuck said:

Too deep a discussion for me...I'm off out for a Bike ride..and then the Pub.

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Me too! If I can make the swim(I’ll only get as far as Boston harbor on the bike), I'll buy the first round!!!

A gentle reminder that UU is not just about Q&A - it's also about mutual respect.

Some folks seek out validation, others seek wisdom, some just want a bit of attention, etc... the list of reasons is as long and varied as the membership number.

As long as they are respectful, none of these reasons are right or wrong - and each deserves the courtesy of at least ignoring it if you don’t like the approach. I do agree that it can be hard to do at times (“which color should I get” is one of my pet peeves for example), but we all get something different from UU and the only standard we should hold others to is respectful discourse.

One man’s annoying question or search for validation may just solve someone else’s problems. And yes, it can be frustrating. That’s the price we pay for community.

GrumpyCoyote said:

A gentle reminder that UU is not just about Q&A - it's also about mutual respect.

Some folks seek out validation, others seek wisdom, some just want a bit of attention, etc... the list of reasons is as long and varied as the membership number.

As long as they are respectful, none of these reasons are right or wrong - and each deserves the courtesy of at least ignoring it if you don’t like the approach. I do agree that it can be hard to do at times (“which color should I get” is one of my pet peeves for example), but we all get something different from UU and the only standard we should hold others to is respectful discourse.

One man’s annoying question or search for validation may just solve someone else’s problems. And yes, it can be frustrating. That’s the price we pay for community.

Click to expand...

Today the Coyote is the spirit guide, and not the trickster...! Very well said, man.