PDA

View Full Version : I'm seriously bummed: Spread the Aloha contest win goes to a COPY!



dirk.li
07-12-2010, 06:32 PM
Hi guys,

I'm surprised and shocked to find that the first price in the "Spread the Aloha" contest went to someone who has obviously copied most ideas from another video that just made it to the 3rd rank. It's obvious to me and I don't understand how UU could overlook this fact.

Look what I mean, the winning video was posted on June 24th and the "3rd rank winning video" was posted on June 13th, 11 days earlier.

I think fairness is a big and important part of the UU community. This should not have happened!

Please see for yourself and compare:

3rd winner (vid posted on June 13th):


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OR0fpJL0UhM

1st winner: (vid posted on June 24th):


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5ZavRN_DSc

ukeCANjam
07-12-2010, 06:39 PM
It's true that the 1st place winner's video was posted after the 3rd place winner's video. However, the 1st place winner could have made their video before (without watching the 3rd place winner's vid), and only posted it to youtube later on.

It's still quite suspicious, but there isn't enough proof that they copied. Sure, it similar, but dates don't mean everything.

I'm not against you on this, but their videos are really similar and there could be a misunderstanding.

dirk.li
07-12-2010, 06:43 PM
It's true that the 1st place winner's video was posted after the 3rd place winner's video. However, the 1st place winner could have made their video before (without watching the 3rd place winner's vid), and only posted it to youtube later on.

It's still quite suspicious, but there isn't enough proof that they copied. Sure, it similar, but dates don't mean everything.

I'm not against you on this, but their videos are really similar and there could be a misunderstanding.

I'm making YouTube videos myself... and I ALWAYS upload a video IMMEDIATELY after I've finished editing it. I think everybody does that!
I don't really see a "misunderstanding" here, it's quite obvious to me.

Melissa82
07-12-2010, 06:49 PM
I'm sorry, I'm going to have to close this thread until it's been reviewed. I just want to avoid any drama. Hope you understand, thanks.

seeso
07-12-2010, 08:09 PM
Dirk, this is a very serious charge. You are accusing someone of outright plagiarism. Rather than let the thread continue, Melissa made the correct decision to close it. I support this decision.

I will talk to Rayan tomorrow about your issue. Pending our talk, the thread may or may not be re-opened. I'll let you know.

Thanks.

rayan
07-13-2010, 06:01 PM
Ok Dirk, its understandable to not agree with the results but,

Why is it impossible for two people to have similar ideas?

Editing these types of videos take a long time and its possible they started working on concurrently and it just so happened that one finished before the other. None of us know any details, but lets give them the benefit of the doubt before you start accusing people. Very uncool.

Let he who has never worn the same shirt as someone to school or an event cast the first stone.

Secondly, we don't choose the winners for the sponsored contests, the contest holder chooses the winner. Kanilea liked that video the best so they gave it the first place. Regardless of what any of us think, they are giving away a uke worth close to $2k so they can give it to whoever they want to give it to. Let's all just remember that they didn't have to give away anything, yet they not only created a special one of a kind ukulele, they also paid for the 2nd and 3rd prize as well.

These contests are supposed to be for fun, lets all remember that.

Ahnko Honu
07-13-2010, 06:14 PM
I saw similarities but they where still very different and in my opinion one was not a copy of the other, They were both unique in their own way, original and enjoyable. Personally enjoyed AustinLove1's video more but I'm not a judge. I think Joe Souza made the choice that was correct to him, and I give him kudos for that and for putting on such a great contest, Mahalo Joe! ;)

haolejohn
07-13-2010, 06:16 PM
I thought that they were similiar but ripping one off I never did.

bbycrts
07-13-2010, 06:38 PM
I think the most important thing here is that suspicions, accusations, or comments that may be taken as such should never be posted publicly - issues like that should be addressed to the authorities involved. The awards in contests like these are totally subjective - they rely on the taste of those awarding the prize, and as such whether a copy or not, whatever they like best, it's their right to make the award.

rayan
07-13-2010, 06:40 PM
I think the most important thing here is that suspicions, accusations, or comments that may be taken as such should never be posted publicly - issues like that should be addressed to the authorities involved. The awards in contests like these are totally subjective - they rely on the taste of those awarding the prize, and as such whether a copy or not, whatever they like best, it's their right to make the award.

bobby curtis always is rational. ;)

rayan
07-13-2010, 06:44 PM
also, does anyone still think your name is bobby curtis?

UncleElvis
07-13-2010, 07:04 PM
I don't see the copying...

One has one word written, presumably by the artist, literally "Spreading the Aloha", the other has the lyrics of the chorus, written by participants, a la the Dylan video, which, if it "copies" anything, it would be that. I personally think it was an homage, rather than a rip-off.

Having said that, even if it WAS a direct copy, is hopping on the forums and causing a whole load of drama REALLY the best choice of solutions?
This place is wonderful. Full of love and incredibly special people. This sort of negativity is jarringly out of place.

There are other, better ways to express your outrage, even if that outrage is, quite frankly, unwarranted.

seeso
07-13-2010, 07:05 PM
also, does anyone still think your name is bobby curtis?

Some of us have taken to calling him, "Booby Curtis.*"

*affectionately, of course.

bbycrts
07-13-2010, 07:13 PM
also, does anyone still think your name is bobby curtis?

I have so many nicknames now - Let's see...there's the original Baby Carrots, then the Bobby Curtis. Then during a town hall that you were doing once I misspelled it as Boboy, and that stuck for some (Phanzo, RevWill). Then there's Booby Curtis...the mind reels...

bbycrts
07-13-2010, 07:14 PM
Some of us have taken to calling him, "Booby Curtis.*"

*affectionately, of course.

Yeah. Every time I hear it is like a hug.

Lori
07-13-2010, 07:25 PM
I learned long ago that if you look hard enough, most things have been done before by somebody else. The truly original ideas are usually so unfamiliar and strange, that most people hate them at first (Impressionism), and it takes a long time to make it accessible to the masses. That said, how many times can we see the same idea? Well, it is all in the execution isn't it? How many times have we seen basically the same story over and over again (boy meets girl, they don't get along, they fall in love anyway, they break up, they reconcile)? It doesn't mean we stop making love stories with that theme. The Art of it is in the details. That is also why people do covers of songs. There is no point in recreating the original performance, except to enjoy the experience of producing it. It is the personal imprint that the individual places on it that makes it worth doing. All creativity is built and rearranged on what we have seen before. It cannot happen in vacuum.

I really like the winning entry. It really expressed a nice sense of friendly strangers coming together to help make a video.
–Lori

dirk.li
07-13-2010, 07:40 PM
First of all I'd like to apologize to all of my fellow UU brothers and sisters. I should have been more careful about the way I presented the issue. I'd really like to apologize for that. Being angry and using strong language ("I'm seriously bummed") doesn't really help anyone and are not a good vibe for a peaceful discussion. Seeso's advice "sleep on it" is much appreciated!

I think it's cool that the thread has been re-opened. I wasn't expecting this. I have e-mailed with Melbees and Tina in the meantime and got some support by PM from other UU members (some of them people I didn't know) who also regretted that the thread had been closed or who saw things my way.
I think I've made my point by addressing the issue and letting people see the similarities of both vids (the basic principle and the idea behind both videos are the same - the implementation differs but that is not the point). It's easy to see what's the basic principle behind both videos, just take away the signs and see what's left.
Taking a good idea from someone else and presenting it in a slightly different way is still not very original in my mind and doesn't deserve to win a 1st price in no contest. Melbees told me that she had already started working on her vid when she saw Tina putting up hers. I guess we just have to believe her and leave it at that.

Of course it lies in the hands of the jurors to decide who wins. It's their contest. I just wasn't happy with the decision and wanted to address the issue. That's all.

MelBees
07-13-2010, 08:18 PM
Thank you for the support, everyone-- it means so much to me.

What came down to an issue of filming and timing led to a big mess, and I completely understand how many of you could have had questions as to the originality of my video. I truly appreciate those who gave me the benefit of the doubt and understood that it was in no way my intention to produce an entry similar to anyone else's. And I like what Lori said:


All creativity is built and rearranged on what we have seen before. It cannot happen in vacuum.

The signs were a great idea that we both utilized independently, though unfortunately in the same contest. Through all this, austin1 has been completely kind and understanding of the circumstances, and I sincerely admire her faith, patience, and incredible tolerance through the whole situation.

UU truly is a remarkable and wonderful community. Thanks for understanding, guys-- let's get back to making some music! :)

bornagainjeeper
07-13-2010, 08:19 PM
First of all I'd like to apologize to all of my fellow UU brothers and sisters. I should have been more careful about the way I presented the issue. I'd really like to apologize for that.

thanks for that.... i couldn't care less about the issie i just hate drama can we just hug and play uke now

mokai
07-13-2010, 08:21 PM
Secondly, we don't choose the winners for the sponsored contests, the contest holder chooses the winner. Kanilea liked that video the best so they gave it the first place. Regardless of what any of us think, they are giving away a uke worth close to $2k so they can give it to whoever they want to give it to.

Had Dirk known the UU staff was not involved in deciding the winner, I am sure he would have not posted this on the UU forums. The fact 'Ukulele Underground' was engraved on the front likely lead him to believe that the jury was not limited to the Kanile'a family.

If he knew that the Kanile'a were the ONLY ones involved in deciding, he would have automatically known that they ONLY saw the videos and likely did not browse the contest thread.

He would have then emailed Kanile'a and expressed his distaste in the decision.
He would have also informed Kanile'a that Melbees signed up for youtube one day after Tina posted her video and then singed up for Ukulele Underground two weeks after the contest started.

I mean no offence to Melbees in this post
I'm just trying to say Dirk is not a bad guy. Knowing English is his second language, he could have worded it worse.

haolejohn
07-13-2010, 08:38 PM
bobby curtis always is rational. ;)

He should be a mod.

austin1
07-13-2010, 08:40 PM
For what it's worth, I agree with what's already been said by Lori and others. Especially after talking to Melanie, I believe what happened was a coincidence that wound up looking fishy because of the timing, and I can't fault anyone for that. It's done and over with, I'm with Alex, let's just hug it out. If there could be cupcakes involved, that would be great too. I like funfetti. I also like puppies. Not implying anything. I'm just saying.






If you'd like to mail me a puppy please PM me for my address.

haolejohn
07-13-2010, 08:44 PM
If a tree falls in the woods and there is no one to hear it, does it make a sound?

UncleElvis
07-13-2010, 08:45 PM
I guess what I don't understand is why you felt it was your place to bring it up.

You say "Taking a good idea from someone else and presenting it in a slightly different way is still not very original in my mind and doesn't deserve to win a 1st price in no contest."
That's fine. And when you hold a contest, you can set the criteria for the win. But it's not your place to do so in this one and, sorry if this is harsh, but your opinion on what deserves "to win a 1st price in no contest" is completely and utterly irrelevant.
Just because YOU think that it was ripped off doesn't make it fact, in any way, shape or form. If you "just take away the signs and see what's left." you have two completely different videos. If you DON'T take away the signs, you have different videos. The ONLY similarity is the handwritten signs... which are on completely different media. They have completely different messages. They are used differently, by different parts of the process (One by the storyteller as protagonist, the other by the subjects, where the storyteller is observer). Literally, your entire case is "They both have rectangular media with writing on them".

"Melbees told me that she had already started working on her vid when she saw Tina putting up hers. I guess we just have to believe her and leave it at that."

THIS, however, I DO take issue with, because you are basically calling this young lady a liar, but without the courage to come out and say it, giving yourself deniability with the wording. "I guess we just have to believe her"? You GUESS? There's no guessing. You HAVE to believe her because you have no evidence to the contrary and to put it that way calls her honesty into question.

"Of course it lies in the hands of the jurors to decide who wins. It's their contest."

This is exactly right. And for you to bring up your baseless accusations is COMPLETELY out of line.

"I just wasn't happy with the decision and wanted to address the issue. That's all."

There IS no issue. Only one that you have created. This should NEVER have been put up in public.

This stinks of a smear campaign. It stinks of self-importance, like your opinion should be taken as fact over the opinions of everyone else, including the judges themselves.

If you want to make a case, point out where they are similar. What parts were "obviously" "copied".
It's just disgusting to come out and a) accuse someone of plagiarism without ANY sort of evidence or backup and b) to follow that up with calling them a liar.

______________________________//______________________________

Sorry, everyone, for extending the drama, and I know I'm probably completely out of line for saying all this, seeing how new I am around here, but I just can't stand this sort of thing... this bullying... this "Listen to what I have to say and agree with me or I'll cause a stink". I see it in WAY too many of the forums and blogs I go to in the rest of my daily life. I hate to see it done, and accepted, here on this wonderful board.

I hope this'll be my last post in this thread. I'm not interested in drama. I just thought SOMETHING needed to be said about this. It's not fair to ANYONE and it diminishes everyone.

dirk.li
07-13-2010, 08:50 PM
Had Dirk known the UU staff was not involved in deciding the winner, I am sure he would have not posted this on the UU forums.

That's right. I watched the vid announcing the winner and it looked like UU had played an important part in the decision. I'm glad to know now that they were not involved!
And I should have checked this first... again, I'm sorry for reacting so impulsive!

seeso
07-13-2010, 08:50 PM
Dirk apologized, guys. Let's leave it at that.

austin1
07-13-2010, 08:52 PM
With all due respect Uncle E (and you know I love you), the thread was reopened for discussion, Dirk apologized, Melanie and I have both chimed in saying we're alright with the situation, I don't understand what more you could want. As the Beatles so aptly put it...let it be...eeeeeeee :D

haolejohn
07-13-2010, 08:57 PM
Kum ba ya my Lord
Kum ba ya

UncleElvis
07-13-2010, 09:00 PM
It was a rather long rant that I put up, so I missed many of the other posts, and the resolution while writing, so the timing is a little off.

I see that it's over and done and I'm pleased that it is.

Apologies to any I have offended.

I'm up for a rousing hug, myself.

dirk.li
07-13-2010, 09:04 PM
I guess what I don't understand is why you felt it was your place to bring it up.

I brought it up because I'm a member of this community and I felt it was an unjust decision made by UU. I posted both vids again so people could see for themselves what I was talking about and build their own opinions.
I think it's everybody's right to bring up something he finds disturbing. I'm glad that everything got clarified now.

bbycrts
07-13-2010, 09:07 PM
He should be a mod.

I thought you liked me, John.

veep
07-13-2010, 09:08 PM
i will say this it would be best to let this go so no friends are lost over this .

UncleElvis
07-13-2010, 09:08 PM
I thought you liked me, John.

For the record, I read your name "B. B. Crits"... I know it's not, but...

Ahnko Honu
07-13-2010, 10:01 PM
I thought he was "Baby Crates" .

Ahnko Honu
07-13-2010, 10:06 PM
Great minds think alike, Tina and Mel are great talents.

luvdat
07-13-2010, 10:27 PM
. 1. One video instrumental, the other singing. 2. One video does NOT feature other people directly in groups participating but a door, a rung doorbell, a mailbox, dogs, and horses...not a lot of smiling, eye contact (no other people in vid directly). 3. Yes, written words and leaflets? used (on how many commercials??? ads already???) but different words...and the other people themselves writing the words.

Subjective part: one vid while "spreading 'aloha'" has an overall edgy vibe at least to me centering on the contestant ultimately, reaching out from a sense of peaceful solitude, aloneness??? The other: different song, different vibe, communal.

Dirk speaks German. 3rd place winner speaks German. Am I allowed to point that out??? Is that considered offensive?

What's offensive to me are false accusations of "plagiarism" and more? And when words like "obviously" become part of the "evidence" there's not much reasoning.

Yes, I did see for myself and compare. It's great to be friends, but sometimes our "support" can be the opposite of helpful, positive...the opposite of "aloha."

kissing
07-13-2010, 11:20 PM
Sometimes things can seem more outrageous than they actually are in the heat of the moment.
It would be ideal to be calm when we are hit with such impulse, but we're all just human :)

Apologies have been made, misunderstandings have been cleared.
Success :)

6stringconvert
07-13-2010, 11:23 PM
I have 2 comments.

- In future these sort of competitions should have an entry date - so everyone posts in say a 48 hr window - to avoid any potential for copying, or accusations of copying.

- Check out Bob Dylon's Subterranean Homesick Blues recorded 1965 http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2798x_bob-dylan-subterranean-homesick-blu_creation


Mahalo, 6sc

rayan
07-14-2010, 12:00 AM
That's right. I watched the vid announcing the winner and it looked like UU had played an important part in the decision. I'm glad to know now that they were not involved!


To be completely honest, we assist the contest sponsors by narrowing down the field by sending a list of videos (usually around 10-20) that we think are kind of what they were looking for. They usually will pick from that list unless they found one themselves that they really really liked. These guys are all really busy so we try to help them as much as we can. The final decision is always up to them though.

luvdat
07-14-2010, 12:35 AM
To be completely honest, we assist the contest sponsors by narrowing down the field by sending a list of videos (usually around 10-20) that we think are kind of what they were looking for. They usually will pick from that list unless they found one themselves that they really really liked. These guys are all really busy so we try to help them as much as we can. The final decision is always up to them though.

And that sounds more than fair.

Contests are NOT things like entrance exams or the BAR exam or medical boards...or things like labs when you go to the doctor...or computer print outs at the mechanic.

To quote Freud Flintstone: "When things don't go our way, we don't like it."

Melissa82
07-14-2010, 02:13 AM
The thread was closed because it was a huge thing you were doing here. I closed it so the admin and contest holder could read what you thought and address the issue.

Ukulele JJ
07-14-2010, 02:55 AM
To quote Freud Flintstone:

LOL!

It's official. We have a new UU meme. :-)

JJ

pulelehua
07-14-2010, 03:01 AM
I'm not a moderator, but can I just say on behalf of those of us who hate to see this kind of back and forth negativity:

THREAD CLOSED

smithpaul60
07-14-2010, 03:15 AM
First I would like to say that I have no authority in the forums so take my opinions as they are, just the vacant ramblings of a middle aged bald man.

I think this thread should be closed and deleted. The issue has been "resolved" (meaning that the parties involved have had discourse) and now it is left open to the rest of the words to voice their opinions, as I'm doing now. Personally (and remember my disclaimer) I feel that more offense will pop up if it is left open.

Whether or not I feel one side is right or wrong is irrelevant. What's done is done I just think we should end it where it is and let it slip into the nether world of the internet.

And I really wouldn't recommend making the mods mad, especially Melissa82, as I'm sure there are quite a few people willing to trade their e-strings to help her, myself included. (this last part is intended to be humorous)

Kanaka916
07-14-2010, 05:05 AM
I do agree with the last two comments/posts. I feel the the entire situation has been resolved and laid to rest. I think further discussion will only result in a verbal feud that will definitely get out of hand. Hopefully the other Mods/Admin agree this one should be locked. Just my dos centavos.

Mim
07-14-2010, 05:37 AM
Addressing the video copying issue and not the thread closed or not closed issue, my insight is as follows:

When I did my "Grim Grinning Ghosts" video with my kids, I knew I had a month or a month and a half to submit it. But I knew what I wanted to do and was so excited it could involve my kids. I had NO TIME to work on it during the early part of the contest, so I watched the other entries posted and prayed no one did anything similar because I did not want to be accused of copying. Then, I finally found time to do the shooting part of the video (which took a heck-of-a-long time) and it littlerally took me days to finally put the finished product together.

The cut and pasting of different shots that I did were also present in both videos, which took a very long time. And both videos were not a novel idea. And I do nto state that as an insult. I have seen both the sign and the writing thing in many a pop video and inspirational video. Both were great and origional in the way they were presented and both took a lot of courage to go in a public place and involve the public in the video, but both my husband and I viewed the video and were at a loss as to why they were considered copy-cats.

And honestly I feel so bad for the winner. Even in the apology post it was said, "Melbees told me that she had already started working on her vid when she saw Tina putting up hers. I guess we just have to believe her and leave it at that." That came across snarky and like you doubted her honestly, which I think is a bigger insult than calling her a copy-cat. Poor girl, totally dampens her win if she can not talk about it with fear of being flamed and called a copy-cat!

seeso
07-14-2010, 06:14 AM
For what it's worth, I believe Melbees. I think all that needs to be said has been said. This thread is now closed.