Replacing friction tuners (for a non-luthier)

mailman

mailman

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I have a custom soprano with friction tuners....which I've come to hate. They are very difficult to use, and don't work well, IMHO. I showed this uke to some folks at UWC2010 who have much more experience than I do, and they told me that the tuners on my uke were very cheap, and not highly thought of.

I've seen positive comments here regarding tuners from the eBay seller, tiasamlu. I have just ordered a set of four uke tuners from him, #229, I believe, in chrome and black.

What do I need to know to successfully swap out the old tuners with the new ones? Any pitfalls I should watch out for, or is it pretty straightforward?

Thanks in advance for any advice....
 
If you're swapping for better friction tuners it should be very simple. Remove single screw on back of each tuner button, remove bits, disassemble new tuner, fits bits in same order, tighten screw.

Possible gotchas:

1. New tuners have extra bits (washers most likely) - refer to instructions! If none, take a guess at right order, and if it doesn't feel right try a different order. Tuners are usually supplied assembled, so the parts go together in the same order. Thus your only question is whether this washer goes at the front or the back. Leave at least one new tuner assembled so you can check the order of the parts.

2. It's possible that the insert on the front of the headstock is a different size (on cheap tuners this looks like a hexagonal nut with a cylinder unedneath which fits into the hole).

If the insert is too large: (a) if close in size, try pressing it in gently (I use pliers with insulating tape on the jaws to prevent marking the headstock). If it won't go, you need to make the hole a little bigger, but only deep enough to take the insert, not all the way through. If you use a hand electric drill, it is likely to grab the wood and shoot all the way through before you can stop it (ask me how I know!) I'd try wrapping the end of drill bit in tape for a better grip and then turning it by hand. If you have a drill press, set the stop so you only go just deep enough.

If the insert is smaller than the hole then I'd first try fitting the tuners and seeing if it doesn't matter. If they wobble you need to glue a dowel in the hole and re-drill - proper luthiers will be along to advise the best method.
 
I just did this last week, and for about the fifth time. Acquired a MayBell model 24 that was missing 3 tuners, so the decision to go with new Grovers was a no-brainer. True enough, as ProfChris says, new tuner inserts are often bigger, and they are of various types and shapes. I went with Grover 1s as they are closest in size to the originals, but they still have a beveled piece that needs to be countersunk into the headstock, so the neck went into a vise (well padded) and I carefully and slowly dremel sanded the countersink holes into the headstock. It worked fine thanks to having the right attachment, but if you have a drill press and a countersink bit, that would be a LOT easier and relatively risk free.

That said, this is one of the easiest things you'll do with a vintage uke. You just don't want to be half-baked in going about it. With the right tool (a drill press), the whole operation can take a few minutes.
 
I don't like to make a countersunk hole for the washer on the top of the headstock of a vintage uke when replacing tuners. So, I go to the hardware store and buy a small package of chrome flat washers, or stainless depending on what looks better and just substitute those on the top side. Cost is usually a dollar or so for the washers.

Tip: galvanized washers don't look good next to chrome in my opinion. Spring for the stainless/chrome if you are doing this.
 
I have two ukes with geared tuners and one with friction, and my five string banjo also has friction tuners. I find they take a bit more effort to get RIGHT at pitch than geared ones, but other than that, i'm happy with them.
 
Dear "Mailman"..the tuners you have purchased will require the holes to be 5/16" dia..drill them out as neat as possible and you should have no problems..apart from sometimes the screw will need shortening a little:mad:..if this is the case it is best to grind it down a couple of mm's, *Note* a hack saw will not cut it, as it is made from very hard plated steel.:D
 
Yikes! If you need to enlarge the holes, please don't use a drill bit. Most likely you will chip the finish around the tuner hole. You want to use a reamer to enlarge the holes. Wont chip the finish and you will stay concentric to the original hole
 
Just go to a hardware store and buy a tapered reamer. The bushings need to be pressed in, so don't make the hole too large. To press them, use a C clamp with a caul to protect the back of the headstock and the bushing.

Although I don't recommend it, you can use a drill bit but spin it in reverse.
 
Timbuck said:
Dear "Mailman"..the tuners you have purchased will require the holes to be 5/16" dia..drill them out as neat as possible and you should have no problems..apart from sometimes the screw will need shortening a little:mad:..if this is the case it is best to grind it down a couple of mm's, *Note* a hack saw will not cut it, as it is made from very hard plated steel.:D
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info! Would that require a 5/16" straight-sided hole, or a tapered hole which is maximum 5/16"? I have access to a drill press, but have no tapered reams.

I do have a grinder, so shortening the screw would not be problematic. How would I knoe whether or not to shorten it? And, how would I know how much to shorten it if need be?
 
dustartist said:
Yikes! If you need to enlarge the holes, please don't use a drill bit. Most likely you will chip the finish around the tuner hole. You want to use a reamer to enlarge the holes. Wont chip the finish and you will stay concentric to the original hole
Click to expand...

I'm unfamiliar with reamers....are you meaning tapered? If so, how do I determine how large to go?
 
thistle3585 said:
Just go to a hardware store and buy a tapered reamer. The bushings need to be pressed in, so don't make the hole too large. To press them, use a C clamp with a caul to protect the back of the headstock and the bushing.

Although I don't recommend it, you can use a drill bit but spin it in reverse.
Click to expand...

Forgive my ignorance, but what is a "caul"? Also, how would a drill bit spun in reverse cut anything?
 
A drill bit used in reverse will "scrape" its way through the wood as opposed to cutting. On lacquered instruments, I normally pre-drill with a bit half the diameter then use the final it in reverse so that it doesn't splinter or chip the lacquer. This is standard operating procedure as I tend to drill holes in my electrics after the finish is buffed out.

A caul is a protective piece of wood, leather etc that is used between the clamp face and the surface of the item being clamped to protect it from being marred or damaged.

Andrew
 
:D Intresting stuff this is ??..drills in reverse??? ..Taper reamers for parallel fittings ????..what taper do you recommend ????..I will review this thread with intrest..carry on Chaps. :D
 
The bushings that come with Grover and Schaller tuners are tapered and I use a reamer that matches that taper.

Brad
 
ProfChris said:
If you're swapping for better friction tuners it should be very simple. Remove single screw on back of each tuner button, remove bits, disassemble new tuner, fits bits in same order, tighten screw.

Possible gotchas:

1. New tuners have extra bits (washers most likely) - refer to instructions! If none, take a guess at right order, and if it doesn't feel right try a different order. Tuners are usually supplied assembled, so the parts go together in the same order. Thus your only question is whether this washer goes at the front or the back. Leave at least one new tuner assembled so you can check the order of the parts.

2. It's possible that the insert on the front of the headstock is a different size (on cheap tuners this looks like a hexagonal nut with a cylinder unedneath which fits into the hole).

If the insert is too large: (a) if close in size, try pressing it in gently (I use pliers with insulating tape on the jaws to prevent marking the headstock). If it won't go, you need to make the hole a little bigger, but only deep enough to take the insert, not all the way through. If you use a hand electric drill, it is likely to grab the wood and shoot all the way through before you can stop it (ask me how I know!) I'd try wrapping the end of drill bit in tape for a better grip and then turning it by hand. If you have a drill press, set the stop so you only go just deep enough.

If the insert is smaller than the hole then I'd first try fitting the tuners and seeing if it doesn't matter. If they wobble you need to glue a dowel in the hole and re-drill - proper luthiers will be along to advise the best method.
Click to expand...

I've just bought a vintage Slingerland Maybell in great condition but one of the tuners slips, and the screw is already tightened right up - so I've got the screw out to clean it as per advice I've read - I wanted to put a tiny washer between the tuner and and the wood of the peghead, but - I thought the tuner would just come out, but it won't - and I'm turning the tuner round and round but it doesn't come apart or come out - what am I doing wrong? Please don't get too technical on me, I'm a girlie......! I think the tuners are original.
 
Do you guys understand the concept of "0" (as in zero) rake drill bits? An absolute must for safely drilling wood, brass, or PlexiGlas (Perspex for you Brit types) or enlarging existing holes.

Also note the difference between "patent" style friction tuners and old-style violin type friction tuners. Two completely different beasts...
 
Just remember that when non-luthiers attempt to do lutherie work, the result is often job security for luthiers at best, and land fill at worst.

You wouldn't believe how a simple task like drilling out undersized holes can turn into a complete disaster.

http://www.sdplastics.com/polycast.html Scroll down to the drill bit mod. Appropriate for wood, brass, or plastics...
 
barefootgypsy said:
I've just bought a vintage Slingerland Maybell in great condition but one of the tuners slips, and the screw is already tightened right up - so I've got the screw out to clean it as per advice I've read - I wanted to put a tiny washer between the tuner and and the wood of the peghead, but - I thought the tuner would just come out, but it won't - and I'm turning the tuner round and round but it doesn't come apart or come out - what am I doing wrong? Please don't get too technical on me, I'm a girlie......! I think the tuners are original.
Click to expand...

I'm not clear precisely where you've got to on this, so what follows is my guess: You've removed the screw but nothing happens. (If wrong, ignore what follows)

The answer is that the button is a press fit on the post, which goes all the way through the peghead and round which the string winds on the other side. You must, carefully, pull the knob off the shaft. Because these are old tuners the knob might be fragile, so don't lever it off with a screwdriver. If it really doesn'twant to move some heat may help - a cloth dipped in warm water and wrung out would be a safe way to apply heat. A hair dryer is more risky because you don't know the temperature at which these knobs will melt or burst into flames!

Once the knob is removed the post will slide out (on the upper surface of the peghead), and any washers on the under surface will fall on the floor. Sotry to take it apart in such a way as to stop this happening.

It might be that once you've cleaned everything up, including the screw thread, it will work properly. If not, the washer goes on the underside of the peghead, and you will need to decide how to workit with any other washers which are there already.

A leather washer, if you can find or make one, is probably better than a metal one. Brass would be better than steel.

If you've removed the knob and the tuner still won't come apart then it's an unusual design - pictures will help someone here recognise how it works.
 
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