Does figured koa sound better ...

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escee

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... than non-figured koa? Just wondering ....
It looks better, that's for sure!

Any thoughts?

Stephen
 
My dos centavos, I think it's just eye candy. I don't know if it'll sound better but it may sound different.
 
In my very limited building experience the highly figured woods sound rounder and have a more enveloping sound. The straight grain ones seem more direct and seem to have better projection and volume. Depends on the sound you are after, really. I personally like the rounder, enveloping sound when I am playing by myself at home. And again, this is based on the very few instruments I have built.

Take care,
Thomas
 
I find that the more simple the grain pattern is, the stiffer the wood is likely to be. That's a good thing when choosing a good tone wood. Highly figured wood tends to be "floppy" and somewhat less responsive. The grain in a piece of curly wood looks like a sound wave, or a roller coaster, with as much end grain as straight grain showing. That's what gives it it's unique chatoyancy, but it's not as strong or as stiff as straight grain. Many times a very curly piece of koa, for instance, will have to be slightly thicker to overcome it's lack of strength. A good builder will know how to compensate for it. I think curly wood can sound as good as more plain wood, but seldom, if ever, better. Even the color can give me a clue as to how a piece of koa will sound and I have found that my most lively, responsive koa ukes tend to be lighter in color with minimal figure. Generally, a good tone wood should be strong, stiff and light weight. Unfortunately everyone seems to want the most curly koa available. I always recommend people settle for a balance between form and function when it comes to wood selection.
One caveat, I find that extremely tight fiddle back is quite a bit stiffer than more randomly wider spaced curly koa, such as you'd see in "crotch" or "compression" curl. Of course it's the most expensive as well. These are all generalities of course and there are exceptions to everything I've mentioned, especially when it concerns koa.
 
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Moore Bettah Ukuleles said:
I find that the more simple the grain pattern is, the stiffer the wood is likely to be. That's a good thing when choosing a good tone wood. Highly figured wood tends to be "floppy" and somewhat less responsive. The grain in a piece of curly wood looks like a sound wave, or a roller coaster, with as much end grain as straight grain showing. That's what gives it it's unique chatoyancy, but it's not as strong or as stiff as straight grain. Many times a very curly piece of koa, for instance, will have to be slightly thicker to overcome it's lack of strength. A good builder will know how to compensate for it. I think curly wood can sound as good as more plain wood, but seldom, if ever, better. Even the color can give me a clue as to how a piece of koa will sound and I have found that my most lively, responsive koa ukes tend to be lighter in color with minimal figure. Generally, a good tone wood should be strong, stiff and light weight. Unfortunately everyone seems to want the most curly koa available. I always recommend people settle for a balance between form and function when it comes to wood selection.
One caveat, I find that extremely tight fiddle back is quite a bit stiffer than more randomly wider spaced curly koa, such as you'd see in "crotch" or "compression" curl. Of course it's the most expensive as well. These are all generalities of course and there are exceptions to everything I've mentioned, especially when it concerns koa.
Click to expand...

Great information Chuck. And this coming for a builder who uses some of the most curly Koa I've ever seen. Another custom builder had mentioned that, in general, the lighter the color the better the sound.
 
I've always heard the tighter and straighter the grain is the way to go for sound preformance....
 
Moore Bettah Ukuleles said:
I find that the more simple the grain pattern is, the stiffer the wood is likely to be. That's a good thing when choosing a good tone wood. Highly figured wood tends to be "floppy" and somewhat less responsive. The grain in a piece of curly wood looks like a sound wave, or a roller coaster, with as much end grain as straight grain showing. That's what gives it it's unique chatoyancy, but it's not as strong or as stiff as straight grain. Many times a very curly piece of koa, for instance, will have to be slightly thicker to overcome it's lack of strength. A good builder will know how to compensate for it. I think curly wood can sound as good as more plain wood, but seldom, if ever, better. Even the color can give me a clue as to how a piece of koa will sound and I have found that my most lively, responsive koa ukes tend to be lighter in color with minimal figure. Generally, a good tone wood should be strong, stiff and light weight. Unfortunately everyone seems to want the most curly koa available. I always recommend people settle for a balance between form and function when it comes to wood selection.
One caveat, I find that extremely tight fiddle back is quite a bit stiffer than more randomly wider spaced curly koa, such as you'd see in "crotch" or "compression" curl. Of course it's the most expensive as well. These are all generalities of course and there are exceptions to everything I've mentioned, especially when it concerns koa.
Click to expand...

That makes sense ... it's just kind of interesting how people usually consider figured woods better, hence the more expensive prices. Thanks for explaining!
 
escee said:
That makes sense ... it's just kind of interesting how people usually consider figured woods better, hence the more expensive prices. Thanks for explaining!
Click to expand...

They're pretty, so I imagine more people want them which makes it more expensive.

JM2C
 
Better is a matter of opinion. Like it's been said, you are going to get different sounds on straight versus figured.

If you are running it through an amp with a pickup, your sound is going to depend as much on the grain as it is on the pickup and amp (and their settings). You can color a sound quite a bit even if you are only miked (as opposed to directly plugged in).

Another thing that I haven't seen yet (may have been in a longer post) is the action of laminates opposed to solid woods. In some cases where you get a straighter core in the laminate with a more ornamental veneer on top you can achieve the best of both worlds. Plus, you don't have near as much movement in the wood since the laminate layers will pull against each other to help keep shape. (I'm not saying they can't bend, I'm just saying they have less tendency to.)

I'll take the question a bit further and maybe it should be another thread: What types of sounds come from different woods (maple, koa, mahogany, etc)?

~DB
 
Moore Bettah Ukuleles said:
I find that the more simple the grain pattern is, the stiffer the wood is likely to be. That's a good thing when choosing a good tone wood. Highly figured wood tends to be "floppy" and somewhat less responsive. The grain in a piece of curly wood looks like a sound wave, or a roller coaster, with as much end grain as straight grain showing. That's what gives it it's unique chatoyancy, but it's not as strong or as stiff as straight grain. Many times a very curly piece of koa, for instance, will have to be slightly thicker to overcome it's lack of strength. A good builder will know how to compensate for it. I think curly wood can sound as good as more plain wood, but seldom, if ever, better. Even the color can give me a clue as to how a piece of koa will sound and I have found that my most lively, responsive koa ukes tend to be lighter in color with minimal figure. Generally, a good tone wood should be strong, stiff and light weight. Unfortunately everyone seems to want the most curly koa available. I always recommend people settle for a balance between form and function when it comes to wood selection.
One caveat, I find that extremely tight fiddle back is quite a bit stiffer than more randomly wider spaced curly koa, such as you'd see in "crotch" or "compression" curl. Of course it's the most expensive as well. These are all generalities of course and there are exceptions to everything I've mentioned, especially when it concerns koa.
Click to expand...

Another example of some of the impossibly great info that can be found on these boards. I feel like this information should be in some sort of a stickied thread that's an info catch-all resource.
 
Moore Bettah Ukuleles said:
I find that the more simple the grain pattern is, the stiffer the wood is likely to be. That's a good thing when choosing a good tone wood. Highly figured wood tends to be "floppy" and somewhat less responsive. The grain in a piece of curly wood looks like a sound wave, or a roller coaster, with as much end grain as straight grain showing. That's what gives it it's unique chatoyancy, but it's not as strong or as stiff as straight grain. Many times a very curly piece of koa, for instance, will have to be slightly thicker to overcome it's lack of strength. A good builder will know how to compensate for it. I think curly wood can sound as good as more plain wood, but seldom, if ever, better. Even the color can give me a clue as to how a piece of koa will sound and I have found that my most lively, responsive koa ukes tend to be lighter in color with minimal figure. Generally, a good tone wood should be strong, stiff and light weight. Unfortunately everyone seems to want the most curly koa available. I always recommend people settle for a balance between form and function when it comes to wood selection.
One caveat, I find that extremely tight fiddle back is quite a bit stiffer than more randomly wider spaced curly koa, such as you'd see in "crotch" or "compression" curl. Of course it's the most expensive as well. These are all generalities of course and there are exceptions to everything I've mentioned, especially when it concerns koa.
Click to expand...

I was hoping you would weigh in on this, Chuck. Now I have a new word to look up... chatoyancy...
 
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Resurrected:

My wife's Martin and my Kamaka are worlds apart in terms of figuring. The Kamaka is without figuring, and I thought that was either really good, or somewhat bad (bad in terms of aesthetics). They don't even look like the same species, but they both sound nice. As a lover of spruce top classical guitars, I've always been suspicious of anything but tight and straight grained tops.
image.jpg

OTOH, there are some really stunning looking sets of Koa coming from top luthiers....and even Mexican Martins.

P.S. Having played both instruments since 7am, I decided to measure their top thickness around the soundhole. Neither has an inlaid rosette, and the Martin is between .5-1mm thicker depending on where the calipers are placed. The Martin might sound tight and bright, but it does equal the Kamaka's volume in a strum. The Kamaka sounds better finger picked, both in tone and volume. The Martin sounds nice when strummed, but its resonance can cause it to sound less defined than the Kamaka. I'm not going to say one is better than the other, but they are certainly different.
 
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Moore Bettah Ukuleles said:
I find that the more simple the grain pattern is, the stiffer the wood is likely to be. That's a good thing when choosing a good tone wood. Highly figured wood tends to be "floppy" and somewhat less responsive. The grain in a piece of curly wood looks like a sound wave, or a roller coaster, with as much end grain as straight grain showing. That's what gives it it's unique chatoyancy, but it's not as strong or as stiff as straight grain. Many times a very curly piece of koa, for instance, will have to be slightly thicker to overcome it's lack of strength. A good builder will know how to compensate for it. I think curly wood can sound as good as more plain wood, but seldom, if ever, better. Even the color can give me a clue as to how a piece of koa will sound and I have found that my most lively, responsive koa ukes tend to be lighter in color with minimal figure. Generally, a good tone wood should be strong, stiff and light weight. Unfortunately everyone seems to want the most curly koa available. I always recommend people settle for a balance between form and function when it comes to wood selection.
One caveat, I find that extremely tight fiddle back is quite a bit stiffer than more randomly wider spaced curly koa, such as you'd see in "crotch" or "compression" curl. Of course it's the most expensive as well. These are all generalities of course and there are exceptions to everything I've mentioned, especially when it concerns koa.
Click to expand...

Thanks Chuck, this really confirms my experience specific to koa. With the exception of my Ohta-San, all of the Kamakas I own or have owned in the past have been really plain-Jane, straight grain. A couple of times in the past I've tried out Kamakas with upgraded koa and never felt that the sound quite measured up to my plainer ones and have passed on all of them as it never made sense to me to spend more on looks alone. My Ohta-San is moderately figured but still has the sound I like.

And, chatoyancy - awesome word, I can only hope that I have occasion to use it some time :)
 
FrankB said:
The Kamaka is without figuring, and I thought that was either really good, or somewhat bad (bad in terms of aesthetics).
Click to expand...

FWIW, the grain of your Kamaka is pretty consistent with those that I have found to sound best. Of the five that I've owned, these are the keepers.

photo 4.jpg
 
janeray1940 said:
FWIW, the grain of your Kamaka is pretty consistent with those that I have found to sound best. Of the five that I've owned, these are the keepers.

View attachment 66257
Click to expand...

I searched this forum for figured Koa before posting today, and saw that your Kamakas were as plain as mine. You called two of them "unsightly", so I figured I was in good company. :D

Figured or not, my Kamaka has really come to life since Friday. There isn't anything about it that I can find fault with. After reading Chuck Moore's comments, the lack of figuring is fine with me. Thanks Chuck! Actually, the cruddy plastic nut and saddle have to go, but there's time for that.
 
FrankB said:
I searched this forum for figured Koa before posting today, and saw that your Kamakas were as plain as mine. You called two of them "unsightly", so I figured I was in good company. :D

Figured or not, my Kamaka has really come to life since Friday. There isn't anything about it that I can find fault with. After reading Chuck Moore's comments, the lack of figuring is fine with me. Thanks Chuck! Actually, the cruddy plastic nut and saddle have to go, but there's time for that.
Click to expand...

Those are not cruddy plastic nut and saddles. They are high quality Tusq brand nut and saddle
 
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