What's up with Edim/Gdim/C#dim

roxhum

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One month into ukulele and I am getting bored with simple chords and strumming. I am not a singer so I am interested in learning melodies. I started looking ahead in my song book and identifying the chords I have memorized and learned and the ones I have not yet learned and I realized that E dim, G dim and C# dim are all the same chords. That makes O sense to me. What's up with that?

Roxhum
 
One month into ukulele and I am getting bored with simple chords and strumming. I am not a singer so I am interested in learning melodies. I started looking ahead in my song book and identifying the chords I have memorized and learned and the ones I have not yet learned and I realized that E dim, G dim and C# dim are all the same chords. That makes O sense to me. What's up with that?

Roxhum

That's one of the neat things about Diminished Chords. You can use the same chord form at the root, the flat 3rd and 5th and it is all the same chord. I works well as a passing chord to hit the diminished at the root and the slide up to the flat 3rd and play the same chord form.

Same thing for the augmented except that the chord form moves from the root to major third to the fifth.

In your example though I think it would be E, G and Bflat not C#
 
Thank you for your response. Still doesn't make much sense. Clearly I have a bit of studying to do. My only music background is a little bit of piano and a little bit more of piano accordion. This is a whole new, and interesting, world.

Again thanks,

Roxhum
 
Thank you for your response. Still doesn't make much sense. Clearly I have a bit of studying to do. My only music background is a little bit of piano and a little bit more of piano accordion. This is a whole new, and interesting, world.

Again thanks,

Roxhum

Actually figuring it out won't do you much good. Just listen to it and use it and it will be come part of your vocabulary. Diminished and augs are great passing chords. You have to hear them before you start using them
 
There are really only 3 diminished seventh chords.
 
I think olgoat52's advice is good. That I need to just keep playing and exploring and it will come to me. Guess I didn't know how much I didn't know. And they said the ukulele was easy.
 
I think olgoat52's advice is good. That I need to just keep playing and exploring and it will come to me. Guess I didn't know how much I didn't know. And they said the ukulele was easy.

It helps to hear diminished chords in context. Here's a great example of a diminished chord used as a passing chord, as olgoat wrote above -

Bb, Bdim7, Cm, F7

Bb = 3211
Bdim7 = 1212
Cm = 0333
F7 = 2310
 
I believe the +after a chord means Augmented
I believe the - after a chord means diminished too.
MM Stan....
 
I went to google to try and translate this forien language but I couldnt find a conversion
 
I believe the +after a chord means Augmented
I believe the - after a chord means diminished too.
MM Stan....

The + sign does mean augmented.

The - sign usually means minor. It's musician's shorthand. "C-" means "C minor."

However if you see it like this: Cm-5, it does mean diminished, but that context is really the only time a - sign means diminished.
 
The + sign does mean augmented.

The - sign usually means minor. It's musician's shorthand. "C-" means "C minor."

However if you see it like this: Cm-5, it does mean diminished, but that context is really the only time a - sign means diminished.

How do you get the degree symbol out of key board? Or is that just a mac thing?? ;-)
 
How do you get the degree symbol out of key board? Or is that just a mac thing?? ;-)

I was on a pc when I wrote that. I just went to weather.com and copied it into my clipboard.
 
How do you get the degree symbol out of key board? Or is that just a mac thing?? ;-)

You can find it using the "Character Map" on a PC, along with all the other goofy symbols.
 
Not about theory, because I am clearly no expert, but nice to see someone else who chooses accordion and ukulele as their weapons of mass-distraction.
Taking apart the bass mechanism in an accordion is a great way to learn theory fast. It is not for the faint at heart, but one quickly sees how and why 12 notes can equal 120 buttons, where the repeats are, and why.
Thank you for your response. Still doesn't make much sense. Clearly I have a bit of studying to do. My only music background is a little bit of piano and a little bit more of piano accordion. This is a whole new, and interesting, world.

Again thanks,

Roxhum
 
I just did some checking and research, and a Hawaiian songbook named He Mele Aloha songbook states that
a minus sign after a chord means diminished...I'm not sure if this is a hawaiian thing only or if it's correct, just
saying that's what I seen in the book....Hmm
 
I use a book called "The Complete Idiots Guide to Music Theory" by Michael Miller, which despite the patronising name, is a great source of simply explained music theory.

Thanks for the tip Bill!
 
nice to see someone else who chooses accordion and ukulele as their weapons of mass-distraction.

Hey! I'm a ukulele/accordion guy too! Maybe we should create a group. :)

Anyhoo, to get back to the original question, here's the basic idea in a nutshell:

Chords are made up of notes, of course. Those notes have a certain "normal" order, starting with the root of the note. So a C chord has the notes C, E, and G. The C note is the root of the chord, and we use that letter in the name of the chord.

Here's the thing: The notes don't always have to be "in order". For example, you could take the C note and move it an octave higher. You'd get E, G, and C. The root of the chord is no longer the lowest note, but that's okay. It's still counts as a C chord.

As long as the individual notes that make up a particular chord are all being played somewhere, somehow, you can still call it by the same name.

Now take a look at the notes that are in your diminished chords. (By the way, what most ukulele players call a diminished chord is really a diminished seventh chord, which has four different notes. A true regular diminished chord just has three notes.)

Code:
Edim7  =  E   G   Bb  Db

Gdim7  =  G   Bb  Db  E

Bbdim7 =  Bb  Db  E   G

Dbdim7 =  Db  E   G   Bb

That's the cool thing about dim7 chords. They come in groups of four chords that all share the exact same notes. They're just in a different "normal" (starting with the root) order.

If you take one of them and put the notes in a different order, you'll get the "normal" version of another one. But since the order doesn't necessarily matter when you're naming a chord, this means that all four chords in each group can be justifiably called by any one of the four names.

...and it also means you can play them all with the same shape on your ukuele.

(Incidentally, there's a similar equivalency between major 6th chords and minor 7th chords. That's why a C6 is played the same as an Am7.)

JJ
 
Accordion/Ukulele

HolyCow! I just printed those responses. So much information. Thank you.

NO thanks, I am not taking apart my accordion.

I thought I was so clever playing the accordion and that the uku would be a cake walk. Didn't realize those neat rows of minor, 7th and diminished cords on my accordion would translate into my fingers becoming contortionist and that I would have to know more than what row is what type of chord. Meanwhile I am having a blast and have ukulele withdrawals while I am at work.
 
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