Has anybody tried this on a build yet???

Timbuck

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I've been out of building for a while but I recall Titebond Original is the only Titebond makers would use. TBII was supposedly too elasticy and would "creep" and TBIII was even worse. I won't even get into their so called "hideglue"....

That said it would be a neat tool to use to detect glue prior to finishing.
 
You are totally wrong about the hide glue. Read Fine Woodworking's extensive glue test results. I was surprised that it held up against the real thing in what was a good test bench examination of glue strength.
 
I've been out of building for a while but I recall Titebond Original is the only Titebond makers would use. TBII was supposedly too elasticy and would "creep" and TBIII was even worse. I won't even get into their so called "hideglue"....

There is no totally wrong or totally right about any of this. But you would not be alone in your thinking. As least as far as Dale Zimmerman, the Big Daddy at Titebond (Franklin International) says.
Here's what he says , in part, in this months Guild of American Luthier's Magazine (Fall, 2010--page 69). (Not that it means anything, but I've been saying it all along....)

"Hide glues such as our ready-to-use Titebond Liquid Hideglue and most hot-pot hide glues are, and remain, quite sensitive to moisture That affinity for moisture means that they tend to absorb water when exposed to high humidity or damp conditions and that increase in moisture causes them to swell and weaken........ blah, blah, blah..........That means that hide glues are generally considered a poor choice for bonds that are likely to be exposed to particularly humidity conditions, especially those that are expected to be under meaningful stress. For such situations, yellow glues, which show little effect from dampness or elevated humidity are decidedly a better choice."

I know he's talking particularly about moisture and stress, but those are key factors I worry about when I build. I personally know several dozen builders and we all use Titebond Red Cap, the Real McCoy. Well, one builder uses the LMI glue but we make him bring the beer to our meetings so he's OK.
 
I used to make Violins and I have used Titebond's ready to use Hide Glue and it is crap. The first violin I ever made I used it on and it came apart for no reason. All the rest I made with real hide glue granules from Lee Valley I cook up myself.

I still have the first one of those and it's in perfect condition years later, the other violins are still in one piece and are being enjoyed by their current owners.

I heard they put Urea in the Titebond Hideglue to keep it liquid, which also probably gives it that aweful smell....Urea is also in your pee.
 
Ken, you could do a glue fill with the fluorescent stuff and you'd have a glow-in-the-dark ukulele. Too late for Halloween this year, but maybe next? ;)
 
Because you had glue failure doesn't mean the product is crap. You would do well to read the Fine Woodworking article - it dispels a number of myths.

The use of hide glues in violins is essential - repair and constant maintainance are the territory of this family of instruments. Guitars and ukuleles are made differently to different rules and the taking apart of such instruments is not in course of their lifetime a desired thing and usually occurs after some sort of trauma to the instrument.

For a hide glue joint to fail it would need to be exposed to very high levels of humidty - basically water, for quite a prolonged period or live in an Amazon rain forest (my friend's violin exploded in such conditions). I know many makers who use hide glue for 'kudos' more than anything else. For me, heating components before gluing, having limited lay-up time and the shear inconvenience of it in a limited batch run workshop is not worth the hassle. Titebond Original has done well for me and if I need a really 'suck-it-up' type of joint I will use a urea formaldyhide powedered glue that is made up with water under the former brand name of Cascamite - like I will be doing in a week's time when I have to book-match some greasy cocobolo...

Side bar - I attended an interview at Loughborough University for the job of lecturer in furniture making. I had my make book with me showing the extensive veneer and shaped work I did with exotic burr veneers. I was asked how I glued up the panels on my work and what type of glue I used. My reply, to the astonishment of the interviewing professors was PVA. They insisted this was an error and that UF needed to be used. Well, I didn't get the job and hey, what did they know. A company that did my large shaped work for me had an office panelled out in burr walnut. One panel in the scheme was all cracked and showed incredible tension due to shrinkage - the others were fine. Guess which one was not glued with PVA? Moral - the science of using glues and the practical application can often be two different things.

I come from a furniture making background and have struggled when working as a 'carpenter' to get my head around the 3mm tolereneces used on site when all of my experience was with the fine 0.3mm tolerences used in cabinet making. And so it is with instrument making - there are different disciplines and many different methods of working. With no known established programs of study, apprenticeships or agreed syllabi we all work very, and to my mind, refreshingly differently. So where Dave Means uses hide glue extensively, I use Titebond. Where Chuck uses wood bindings I prefer the more shock resistant plastic. Where KoAloha favours UV cured finishes I like the look of nitro cellulose after a few years. Where Ken engineers as many components as possible I hand craft. As we say here, horses for courses.

That UV stuff looks interesting and if I had a business that employed other people who didn't have invested in the business what I have, I'd use it as a further layer of quality control...
 
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For me, heating components before gluing, having limited lay-up time and the shear inconvenience of it in a limited batch run workshop is not worth the hassle. Titebond Original has done well for me and if I need a really 'suck-it-up' type of joint I will use a urea formaldyhide powedered glue that is made up with water under the former brand name of Cascamite.

That's why I use Fish glue (as well as Titebond Original and sometimes CA). But I haven't used Cascamite for about 25 years, although the 2 guitars I made using it 40 years ago are still in one piece. No, hang on, I noticed the other day that the bridge is loose on one of them. Perhaps that darned Cascamite is crap too! 'Course it could be that my glue joint wasn't perfect.;)
 
"Cascamite" has been around for some time now...I first came across it in 1951 in the "Woodwork class" at School when I was 12...I was making a small "bed tray/table" for my Mum...and Mr Page the woodwork teacher,came across to me with a couple of little bottles to help me glue my mortice and tenon joints together ..He told me it was a new fangled type of glue that only set when the two liquids were brought together on the wood.
I was amazed how strong it set, co's it wasn't even sticky...My Sister still has that table
and it's still in use.
 
We used Cascamite exclusively at college - it's a very brittle glue but when mixed accurately works superbly. Too messy and fiddly for instrument building.

There is an anti-Titebond band that can't see to see anything good in it. Personally, I think it's fine. I'd never use our branded UK PVA or that ridiculous Gorilla stuff either. If I was retired and didn't have to make ukulele for a living I'd go back to hide glue and dovetail joints and maybe even French polish.... :)
 
Yep...we used Cascamite when I was in college as well. We used it mostly when we needed a longer open clamp time and when setting the glue with electrolysis. Haven't used it since then. I use Titebond now for most everything. Never been a fan of Titebond II. Used it to build a few canoes (too cheap to buy the epoxies made for boatbuilding) and it held up great, but I hate working with it. Too tacky and doesn't clean up with water...I know...it's supposed to be waterproof, but that's what I didn't like about it. Great for the canoes, but I'm leaving it there.
 
He told me it was a new fangled type of glue that only set when the two liquids were brought together on the wood.

Don't wish to be contentious Ken, but I don't think that was cascamite. Cascamite was the white powder you mixed with water and used like that. It always seemed a bit gritty when you mixed it and if you didn't clean the pot out afterwards you'd find it set solid a couple of hours later. Now I'm racking my tired old brains to try to remember what the 'new' wonder-glue was where you painted the glue onto one piece of wood and the acid hardener onto the other.

Pete, when you were at college, was it on Collegiate Crescent by any chance? I used to work just up the road on Park Lane, probably at around the same time.
 
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Don't wish to be contentious Ken, but I don't think that was cascamite. Cascamite was the white powder you mixed with water and used like that. It always seemed a bit gritty when you mixed it and if you didn't clean the pot out afterwards you'd find it set solid a couple of hours later. Now I'm racking my tired old brains to try to remember what the 'new' wonder-glue was where you painted the glue onto one piece of wood and the acid hardener onto the other.
Well!..it was a long time ago..but it was a two part job:D
 
Yep, that was it - Sheffield City College of Education. If you mix cascamite 3.5:1 then it comes out smooth. Getting those ratios right is the trick. And the glue you are refering to is Aerolite I think....
 
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