I have just had a MiSi/Baggs undersaddle pickup installed into my new, and beautiful sounding Jim Williams concert uke. Unfortunately, the uke is so live now that I have had major feedback issues at recent concerts. A mike is not possible as I often play uke and drums at the same time. Putting some radical EQ on the uke helped to an extent but seemed to suck a lot of life and character out of the instrument. Has anybody else had similar issues ?
beating onstage feedback
- Thread starter jemdrum
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OldePhart
Well-known member
Try a preamp with a phase reversal switch - sometimes that helps, sometimes not.
A lot of guys who play true hollow-body electric guitars stuff a small towel or t-shirt into the body to dampen the top a little. Since an under-saddle pickup is mostly measuring the vibrations between string and top immediately below the bridge, not so much the rest of the top, this probably won't alter the plugged-in character as much as you might think.
Just two easy and not-too-expensive things to try.
John
A lot of guys who play true hollow-body electric guitars stuff a small towel or t-shirt into the body to dampen the top a little. Since an under-saddle pickup is mostly measuring the vibrations between string and top immediately below the bridge, not so much the rest of the top, this probably won't alter the plugged-in character as much as you might think.
Just two easy and not-too-expensive things to try.
John
ricdoug
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Stuff the soundhole with news paper. Don't laugh. Many professional's do it, because it works. Ric
ukecantdothat
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I use 2" black masking tape over the hole. I also have the Baggs Paracoustic DI with the notch filter for when things get really loud. I've seen old vids of Jake where he has some kind of black cloth stuffed in there, maybe a t-shirt?
Brad Bordessa
Well-known member
A preamp with anti-feedback features would probably be your best bet. I have a Fishman Pro-EQ Platinum and it has a notch filter and phase switch along with a sweepable mid EQ that you can use to cut out problem frequencies. Once it's dialed in feedback is almost never a problem.
Where you stand in relation to the amp/PA also makes a huge difference. Electric guitarists look for the "feedback spot" so they can get huge sustain. You want to do the opposite.
Where you stand in relation to the amp/PA also makes a huge difference. Electric guitarists look for the "feedback spot" so they can get huge sustain. You want to do the opposite.
raecarter
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Hi I'll just throw my two penneth in. I have the same pickup in my mainland and used to have feedback. I bought a Marshall As50d acoustic amp with feedback controls that eliminated this issue it also has a di Xlr out to go to a pa system
Kekani
Well-known member
What are you plugging into, or, more important, what is your entire setup. You'll may get a better, non-costly response if we know what you're dealing with.
musiccityuker
Well-known member
I'm with rae.... I battled for a long time with this one... then got an amp with feedback circuitry... no more problems.
I tried the gaffer and it does help. I also have a Baggs para acoustic DI and notched out around "B" and reversed the phase which has helped but the sound lacks the sparkle of the unamplified uke. Thanks for your input
Thanks to everyone for their input. My setup is the Williams uke with the misi/baggs undersaddle and the baggs DI. This goes straight into whatever PA is provided. As for moving away from the monitors, I am usually fixed to the spot at the drums. For local shows (ie no airline excess baggage to deal with) in small rooms I take my little AER alpha amp. This is the same amp or DI option I have used for a couple of years with my Kiwaya Rock Uke. I bought that in Tokyo at the Kiwaya showroom and the sales guy said it had a "noname" pickup which is sounding scratchy and thin - maybe I should replace it with a shadow or fishman undersaddle one.
do you find that the whole uke is "live" with this pickup installed ? mine was installed by the uke guy at the Guitar Factory in Gladesville (Sydney) and the installation looks good but it is boomy and feedsback - yes I can see he has secured the cable inside the box
knadles
Well-known member
You'll never get the same sparkle out of the DI that you get acoustically. You may get a sound that is in its own way desirable, but it won't be the same. It just doesn't work that way.
Where is the feedback coming from? The amp? Or a monitor that has the amped sound coming out of it? Or both? If both, try moving the amp away or turning the feed to the monitor down. You only need enough volume to be comfortable.
I like the idea of stuffing something in the hole. I play in a band with two guitarists who play very loud, amplified acoustics. One of them has no problems. The other uses one of those rubber things in the sound hole. Unfortunately, I don't think they make any such thing sized for a uke.
I like the anti-feedback circuitry idea less. I've had mixed experience with such devices. A new amp like the Marshall is a large cash outlay, and the cheapo anti-feedback units I've come across either work or don't work depending on their whim. If you want to go electronic, I think you'll do less damage to your sound with a decent parametric. Turn the gain up and set the bandwidth pretty narrow, then sweep the frequency until the feedback gets *worse*. That's the frequency you want to notch. But a shirt in the sound hole is way cheaper.
Where is the feedback coming from? The amp? Or a monitor that has the amped sound coming out of it? Or both? If both, try moving the amp away or turning the feed to the monitor down. You only need enough volume to be comfortable.
I like the idea of stuffing something in the hole. I play in a band with two guitarists who play very loud, amplified acoustics. One of them has no problems. The other uses one of those rubber things in the sound hole. Unfortunately, I don't think they make any such thing sized for a uke.
I like the anti-feedback circuitry idea less. I've had mixed experience with such devices. A new amp like the Marshall is a large cash outlay, and the cheapo anti-feedback units I've come across either work or don't work depending on their whim. If you want to go electronic, I think you'll do less damage to your sound with a decent parametric. Turn the gain up and set the bandwidth pretty narrow, then sweep the frequency until the feedback gets *worse*. That's the frequency you want to notch. But a shirt in the sound hole is way cheaper.
Howlin Hobbit
Well-known member
Yes they do. It's called a rubber sink plug and you get it at any good hardware store. They might take a little trimming with a razor knife to rid them of excess thickness but they work a treat. Take your uke with you (ignore the odd looks) or measure your soundhole's diameter carefully before you go.
Alas, they usually only come in white. So if you feel all DIY go to your local crafts store and buy a sheet of Fun Foam in your desired color. Cut two or three circles just a wee bit larger in diameter than your soundhole. Glue them together in a tidy stack. (The object of making them a trifle larger than the soundhole is that you have to press the stack into the soundhole and it'll be snug but not tight.) Now cut another circle about an inch larger in diameter to your glued stack. Glue the stack centered on the larger circle. This keeps you from accidentally pushing the whole thing into the ukulele and also makes it easier to pull out when you don't want to use it. (Use the proper glue for the foam so that the finished unit stays a unit.)
(EDIT: my sweetie, who works with this foam quite a bit, says that plain old glue stick is da bomb for it. Go figger!)
Yer welcome.
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Kekani
Well-known member
I'm sorry guys, I'm still trying to figure out how its even possible to feedback with a UST, especially going into a Baggs Para Acoustic DI. Admittedly, the MiSi sounds more like a Fishman than a Baggs (even though it has the Element UST), so I agree the sound won't be as natural as played acoustically, or with an actual LR Baggs underneath (IMO). Still, I play with my friend fairly often, and he NEVER has feedback from his instrument, with or without a DI. Gear: LR Baggs Element UST (sometimes into a DI, most often not), into Soundcraft Gigrac 1000, into EV 12's, or JBL 15's with the EV's or Yamaha's as monitors.
Only thing I can think of is the UST portion of the MiSi is too long, which is why I used to custom order lengths from Baggs (as a dealer), but now they stock an `ukulele length (based on a Tenor body of course).
Aaron
Only thing I can think of is the UST portion of the MiSi is too long, which is why I used to custom order lengths from Baggs (as a dealer), but now they stock an `ukulele length (based on a Tenor body of course).
Aaron
knadles
Well-known member
Not a bad idea...
OldePhart
Well-known member
Oh, it's very possible. The amplified signal makes the top vibrate strongly enough to be picked up by the transducer - the UST essentially measures vibrations as pressure - and there isn't much difference between the saddle being moved by the strings and vibrating against the bridge and the bridge being vibrated by the top and driven against the saddle.
If there is room, try setting your monitor amp behind you facing forward - this is just the opposite of what we do when we want more acoustic feedback to the strings of an electric guitar... The only problem with it is that you have to be very careful about pointing it towards microphones - especially vocal mics.
John
Kekani
Well-known member
What I don't get is if it is the vibrations are causing the feedback, how does that happen unless the mains are behind, or monitors are blaring something nasty, or, there's no EQ in the system to notch out the feedback frequency, or all of the above?
I've seen 4 UST installed instruments (3 of them `ukulele), with mains and monitors, through a basic Soundcraft Gigrac 1000/JBL/Yamaha PA, with no feedback at all - almost clipping, by the way. Just for conversation, the 4 instruments being played at the same time were John Yamasato, Herb Ohta Jr, James Hill and David Kamakahi.
I've seen 4 UST installed instruments (3 of them `ukulele), with mains and monitors, through a basic Soundcraft Gigrac 1000/JBL/Yamaha PA, with no feedback at all - almost clipping, by the way. Just for conversation, the 4 instruments being played at the same time were John Yamasato, Herb Ohta Jr, James Hill and David Kamakahi.
OldePhart
Well-known member
Based on those names I'd guess they had pro level sound team - i.e. someone who can eq out problem frequencies without trashing the sound. I've had the pleasure of working next to a really top-notch broadcast sound engineer at one show and it was amazing to watch him work. That sort of support isn't available to most of us. The right eq in the right hands can certainly cut down feedback problems - the issue is having the right hands, as much as anything. Usually the stage monitor mix is in the hands of a third-party and all-too-often in "lower-end" settings they wouldn't know what to do with even the best equipment.
As someone here has already mentioned, the auto feedback killers work pretty well when you're working with people giving a spoken presentation, or a play, but much "less well" with music.
Hence, we often find ourselves having to solve our own feedback problems. A really tight notch filter or two can do the job, usually, but really tight filters aren't cheap and then that still leaves the issue of whether we know how to get the best from them or not. A cloth or paper stuffed in the soundhole is cheap, handy, and often fixes the problem with very little side effects (I'd venture to say less side effects than EQ in the wrong hands, for example).
Oh, and unless we got really close to those guys, as in handling their instruments, we don't know but what they might have a sheet or two of newspaper or a small rag stuffed back under the bridge... LOL Seriously, almost all of the guys playing hollow-body electric guitars in the 50's and 60's did just that.
John
As someone here has already mentioned, the auto feedback killers work pretty well when you're working with people giving a spoken presentation, or a play, but much "less well" with music.
Hence, we often find ourselves having to solve our own feedback problems. A really tight notch filter or two can do the job, usually, but really tight filters aren't cheap and then that still leaves the issue of whether we know how to get the best from them or not. A cloth or paper stuffed in the soundhole is cheap, handy, and often fixes the problem with very little side effects (I'd venture to say less side effects than EQ in the wrong hands, for example).
Oh, and unless we got really close to those guys, as in handling their instruments, we don't know but what they might have a sheet or two of newspaper or a small rag stuffed back under the bridge... LOL Seriously, almost all of the guys playing hollow-body electric guitars in the 50's and 60's did just that.
John
Kekani
Well-known member
Truth be told, I was running sound, and it was at the KoAloha Anniversary party. Believe me, with my equipment, its only 8 channels, so the mixer was loaded (all of them had mics), and I'm nowhere near even entry level in running sound, but I did it as a favor to the Okami's (cuz they do so much for me). I've played Herb's instrument, and scoped out James Hill's as well as David's - the only guy I've seen stuff something inside the box is Tony Gamble.
John, I agree that playing into someone else's system, you're at the mercy of them, but from what I gather, the OP is using his own equipment at times, with a Baggs DI (with a notch filter). I'm assuming he's in control with most of the setup, so that's why I don't understand how feedback can occur with a UST, outside of the reasons already mentioned (which can be fixed by proper setup, or by changing the UST to a more `ukulele friendly one, if it is the UST causing the problem, which I doubt).
Aaron
John, I agree that playing into someone else's system, you're at the mercy of them, but from what I gather, the OP is using his own equipment at times, with a Baggs DI (with a notch filter). I'm assuming he's in control with most of the setup, so that's why I don't understand how feedback can occur with a UST, outside of the reasons already mentioned (which can be fixed by proper setup, or by changing the UST to a more `ukulele friendly one, if it is the UST causing the problem, which I doubt).
Aaron
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OldePhart
Well-known member
Ahh, I must have missed the part about his being in control of the setup.
That sounds like a fun time though.
That sounds like a fun time though.
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