Open Chords Tuned but not Fretted Strings

Hi All.
I have used a few methods for tuning my ukulele including online tuning, AP Tuner and attempted to by ear. Recently I purchased a Korg HA-40 tuner to take along to be sure. After tuning, the strings are properly tuned to G C E A (within 2 Hz). I wanted to better learn the tuning by ear, however, when picking string 4 -G @ fret 2 and 2 - E @ 5, they don't produce the same tuned A. Both fretted strings are sharp by about 8+ Hz! When tuning by ear, it is my understanding that strings 1, 2, and 4 are tuned to A then string 2 - E open and string 3 - C @ 4 for E. What is going on with this? Is there something wrong with my Lanikai Concert uke?
Thanks,
David

You may be pressing too hard on the fret and/or too far back from the fret. This happens alot with beginners (including me)

This is called intonation and is very common especially on factory ukes that have not been set up by a specialist. The biggest thing affecting intonation at the first few frets is nut height. If the slot in the nut is not deep enough the string has to be pulled down at a very sharp angle when fretted at the first through about third or fourth frets. This pulls the string sharp - sometimes by as much as 20 cents - even more in extreme cases.

When the nut slots are perfect there will be no measurable sharpening of the notes at the first fret. This is very achievable. However, it is only achievable if the frets are perfectly level - otherwise, taking the nut slot that low will result in buzzing somewhere.

This is why you will see folks here recommending over and over that you purchase from someone like MGM or Mim rather than a "chain" like Sam Ash or Musician's Friend. The pros may charge slightly more, but they take the uke out of the factory box and do the work necessary (leveling and dressing frets, cutting nut slots, even shortening bridge saddles) to make the uke as "playable" as possible. (Without a compensated bridge it's pretty much impossible to get perfect intonation up the neck around the 12th fret, but that is generally less of a problem than the issues caused by a high nut and/or frets that aren't level.

John

davidrschaller said:

After tuning, the strings are properly tuned to G C E A (within 2 Hz). I wanted to better learn the tuning by ear, however, when picking string 4 -G @ fret 2 and 2 - E @ 5, they don't produce the same tuned A. Both fretted strings are sharp by about 8+ Hz! When tuning by ear, it is my understanding that strings 1, 2, and 4 are tuned to A then string 2 - E open and string 3 - C @ 4 for E. What is going on with this? Is there something wrong with my Lanikai Concert uke?

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Hi David

It can be that, as SuzukHammer pointed out, you're pressing these strings too hard. But this sounds to me more like an intonation problem.

If properly fretted, all notes should produce correct frequencies. We say "the intonation is correct". A quick way to check is (a) tune the open string to correct pitch, (b) hold 12-th fret and pluck. The note should be exactly one octave above. (You can do this by ear by comparing the pitch of a 12-th fret and the pitch of a 12-th fret harmonics, but it takes a bit of practice to do harmonics)

Anyway, if the intonation is off, the pitch of fretted notes can be off. Usually it's too high. There are many reasons: the action is too high (thus requiring too much pressure to fret). The saddle is misplaced. A bad string (if only one string is off).

The first thing is to see if this happens for all strings. You may have a bad string and then you can replace it and be happy.

For the action, it can be the nut slot, the saddle neight, or the neck bow. The neck bow is impossible to fix. Start with the nut slot - fret a string at 3rd fret lightly, and then look to see if there's space between the top of 1st fret and the bottom of the string. The spacing should be very small, a thickness of a xerox paper. If the spacing is more like the diameter of a string, that means the nut slot is too high and requiring you to use excess force to fret. A competent repairperson can fix this in a few minutes, $20 - $40. In fact, you can just bring your ukulele to a repairperson and have him/her check out your ukulele. He/She can attend to the saddle as well.

Lanikai is usually not bad about the setup but these are delicate matters. It is not defective. Just the setup has to be fine tuned.

Cheers
Chief

SuzukHammer said:

You may be pressing too hard on the fret and/or too far back from the fret. This happens alot with beginners (including me)

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I had not considered this and I did some additional testing. I certainly am pressing as hard as I can. I did notice that I could bend the E depending on finger positioning and pressure at fret 5 but not so much on G at 2. I could nearly get E to match A.
Thank you for your insight.

OldePhart said:

This is called intonation ...

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First time I have heard this term.

OldePhart said:

... This is why you will see folks here recommending over and over that you purchase from someone like MGM or Mim rather than a "chain" like Sam Ash or Musician's Friend. ...

Click to expand...

Although I had no prior experience with any music shops, a 'local' or specialized shop would lend itself to better service typically. I know where I am going for my next uke!
Thanks!

chiefnoda said:

... A quick way to check is (a) tune the open string to correct pitch, (b) hold 12-th fret and pluck. The note should be exactly one octave above. (You can do this by ear by comparing the pitch of a 12-th fret and the pitch of a 12-th fret harmonics, but it takes a bit of practice to do harmonics) ...

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I tried this an can not decern the difference but then again I am new to this.

chiefnoda said:

... bad string and then you can replace it and be happy.

For the action, it can be the nut slot, the saddle neight, or the neck bow. The neck bow is impossible to fix. Start with the nut slot - fret a string at 3rd fret lightly, and then look to see if there's space between the top of 1st fret and the bottom of the string. The spacing should be very small, a thickness of a xerox paper. If the spacing is more like the diameter of a string, that means the nut slot is too high and requiring you to use excess force to fret. A competent repairperson can fix this in a few minutes, $20 - $40. In fact, you can just bring your ukulele to a repairperson and have him/her check out your ukulele. He/She can attend to the saddle as well.

Lanikai is usually not bad about the setup but these are delicate matters. It is not defective. Just the setup has to be fine tuned.

Cheers
Chief

Click to expand...

I would not be skilled enough to replace a string at this point and will leave it up to the experts.
I do see that the spacing at the first fret between the string is a good strings width. I have felt as if I had to really press down at the first fret position as it is very tight. Although I know Bb is difficult for beginners, if the gap was only a papers width, this would certainly help!

Thanks to you and all for your insight and help!
David