How difficult is it to play a short scale fretless bass?

kissing

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So I've been interested in a short-scaled Bass for a while.
I love the playing and sound of bass, but because of my UAS, I'm a bit aversive to the long-ness of bass guitars.

I'm not too keen on the current UBASS with the acoustic body.. because it's like... what really is the point of the body if it doesn't serve much purpose other than to.. well "look" like an acoustic instrument.

So I've been waiting since last year for the Kala solid-body UBASS to come out. Still waiting, Mike Upton tells me it won't be long.

I've been a bit reluctant about the Ashbory bass due to the fretless nature of it.
Otherwise it is quite an appealing instrument because of its relatively low cost and compact solid-bodyness. But I hear that playing fretless on such a short scale instrument is very difficult.

But how difficult?
As far as short scaled fretless instruments go, so are violins. Surely if the violinists can do it, playing some bass chords on a short scaled fretless bass can't be all that hard?



Another question is, if we put the UBASS' polyurethane strings on an Ashbory, does it work just fine? I'm really not keen on the rubber strings they are originally designed to use. The Ashbory's scale length is a bit shorter than the UBASS's, and the Polyurethane strings on the UBASS feel loose enough. Does it get even looser on the Ashbory?




I'm probably gonna end up getting the Kala Solidbody UBASS.... but I keep getting tempted by the Ashbory due to its affordability and immediate availability.
 
I would also be interested in hearing some feedback from bass players on this. We're still in the final stages of wrestling with our bass prototype - a true acoustic "octave bass".

You are right about the violin, but there is a high level of skill required of those folks. At the moment we are looking at a fretless model, but also at increasing our scale to regular guitar length for that very reason.
 
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We're still in the final stages of wrestling with our bass prototype - a true acoustic "octave bass".

Please tell me more about this :D
What is a 'true acoustic octave bass' ?
 
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One octave above normal electric bass tuning - in other words the same as strings 3-6 on a 6 string guitar.

We were working on a variation of our Cuatro with around a 21" scale - now we are moving toward using our Tenor Guitar body. We are already building the 1st of our new Plectrum Guitars. They will use that body with a full guitar scale. We are also adding a tailpiece and new smaller bridge. The Bass variation of this Plectrum would use different woods and not have frets. We have flat wound strings for it that give a beautiful sound, and of course, no hiss.

Being an octave higher, this instrument would not have the thump of a true electric bass, even with a pick-up (should one be optional or installed standard?). Nonetheless, those notes are in a range that are much lower than an ukulele, especially the smaller sizes, and to us, makes a very nice complimetary instrument for ukulele accompaniment.
 
As a former bass player, I several times over the years considered the purchase of a fretless. I love em. Love the looks of them. Even played one once. Interesting exerpience really, and as a musician that doesn't read or use musical therory, it was very intresting, and I never realized how much we, or at least I depend on frets and markers, even if I am not looking at them. But they do give you a subconcious reference point as to where you are on the scale. I think if you really knew therory, it might be easier and not much of an issue, but even though it was challenging for me and I constantly had to stare at the neck to find my barings on it, it was fun to play and an awesome experience for me. I loved it..
 
Thanks for the post Tudorp. Just the kind of things we are looking at.

I've been told more than once that people can be scared off by the lack of frets. On our other instruments we use side position markers in place of front mounted. Do you feel these would be enough to help with your location? To me, putting markers on the front would kind of ruin the look, but if it's what is needed, we'd consider it.
 
Thanks for the post Tudorp. Just the kind of things we are looking at.

I've been told more than once that people can be scared off by the lack of frets. On our other instruments we use side position markers in place of front mounted. Do you feel these would be enough to help with your location? To me, putting markers on the front would kind of ruin the look, but if it's what is needed, we'd consider it.

Actually, I think that would help tremendously and make it less intimidating (marker dots on the top edge, not on the face). But it would be only to get ya started I think. I think once you get used to playing a fretless, you would rely less and less on visual markers. Personally, I think it would make you a better musician. I really enjoyed it because it really does give you freedom, which is my real style anyway. Theroy tossed out the window and not confined to the laws of music opening up more creativity. (No slamming me theroy nazis because therory does serve a great purpose. Im not knocking theroy and it probably would have made my music come easier for me, I just find it confines me personally)

But at any rate, sliding was really cool and a very clean transistion instead of the sound sliding makes moving over frets. A slide on a fretless is more seamless, and sounds more like a bend than a slide. Just sayin.. I love em, but not having allot of experiance with them, at face value, are intemidating and not for the aint at heart. But like you said, any markings on the face would detract from the experiance. I always loved the clean look of them.

I think maybe the same model offered with top edge marker dots for the sqeamish, and a version without those dots for the veteran. Maybe even a sticker set that comes with it to place the dots on the top edge yourself but once you get acustomed to it, remove them completley. I think once a musician gets over the intimidating thought of no visual markers, they will really enjoy playing it better, and would probably never go back to a freted bass. Thats just my opinion.
 
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On a fretless, the intonation is (mostly) up to the player. Even on the fretted U-Bass, it can be tricky to play in tune because the strings are huge and the frets are tiny. It's all about finger placement and knowing where the notes are; you'll also need a good ear in order to fix your playing when something's off.
 
On a fretless, the intonation is (mostly) up to the player. Even on the fretted U-Bass, it can be tricky to play in tune because the strings are huge and the frets are tiny. It's all about finger placement and knowing where the notes are; you'll also need a good ear in order to fix your playing when something's off.

Intonation is completley up to the musician. The cool thing is once you know your instrument, you can change or adjust the intonation on the fly just by a slight slide of your finger position. Another awesome point pro for a fretless. The biggest hurtle is really getting over the intimidation of playing it. Kinda like riding your bicycle for the first time without training wheels.. That sort of stress, and anxiety. Not a bad thing, but once that obstical is gone, you are free..
 
As an added note. I think what really appealed to me for a fretless is that freedom I spoke of. Myself, not letting myself being confined by therory, made my own rules. When I played, and if I can toot my own horn for this, people really loved my style of bass playing. I was out of the box, and played allot of off beats, and notes on the backside. Notes that wernt even defined as notes. But everyone loved it because they said my rythm section contribution gave so much soul, and depth to a tune. "A level of music in the melody that made someones ears perk up and say "that was cool" is a comment I heard allot. They heard my bass, and it wasn't just a rhythmatic thumping to give you to tap your foot to. Allot of my friends and counterparts jokinly said I played "Lead" on my bass, or "he plays "lead bass"", lol.. But, that said, with a fretless, you can find even more sounds and off notes that a fretted bass could offer. Just sayin..
 
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Thanks again for opinions,

This project started as a request from a pretty well known bass player here in New Orleans, but not being acquainted with the instrument myself, it's good to have the opinion of others. What we'd like to do is create an instrument that a lot of people will enjoy - not a custom for one player.

With that said, forgive me for veering off from the thread topic (frets or not), and ask one more question. These strings are much different than what you find on an electric bass or uke bass. The construction of the instrument is more like a classical guitar. It may be (tell me), the first real "Bass Guitar" (with emphasis on the "guitar" part - not the bass). You can get a lot more variety of tone and a lot of different voices out of this instrument, compared to a "bass bass".

The strings, however, are thinner than wound classical strings, for example, and without an overly high tension. While the tailpiece/bridge assembly and our wood selection will give a very percussive sound, it is percussive compared to a guitar, not a bass. Slapping and thumping will not be the strong point this proposed "Bass Guitar".

Any thoughts on this?
 
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But how difficult? As far as short scaled fretless instruments go, so are violins. Surely if the violinists can do it, playing some bass chords on a short scaled fretless bass can't be all that hard? Another question is, if we put the UBASS' polyurethane strings on an Ashbory, does it work just fine?

A short scale fretless bass like the Ashbory or U-Bass is a bit harder to play in tune, but it can certainly be done with some practice and good left hand technique. The thing you should be aware of however is that the U-Bass strings do not impart much of the sonic signature of a fretless bass, espacially the swelling sustain or "growl" that most fretless bass players covet. I tried the fretless U-Bass side by side with the fretted model and they basically sounded the same in terms of tone, sustain and attack. This is why I chose the fretted model for myself even though I play upright bass and fretless electric bass. As far as using the U-Bass strings on the Ashbory, I know a few people who have done this and it works just fine. I might have kept my Ashbory if thse strings were available at the time.

- Steve
 
My opinion from playing the fretted Ubass, and playing around with several unfretted basses in various music stores: the short scale will make it difficult to be in tune or accurate. On something like a double bass or even a 3/4 scale EUB, being 1/2" off (about 1 finger's width) might only make the note a little flat or sharp, and may not be very noticeable. It can be corrected somewhat quickly by either sliding or rolling the finger a bit. On the short scale of the Ubass, that same width can be halfway between tones, so the note will be very noticeably off pitch and correction is tougher (I don't find the Ubass strings slide all that easily).
 
+1 to what ichadwick said. I play fretless bass....the smaller the scale the less room for error in finger placement for each note you are attempting to play. Even on a 34" scale electric bass, it is noticeable if you are out of tune +/- 30 cents. Accomplished fretless players have a highly developed ear which is why they don't need fret markers or cheater lines. For the hobbyist or beginning fretless players the markers are certainly helpful, but on a small scale instrument, you have to land dead on the marker or you be horribly out of tune! The problem with that is you'll be staring at your neck all of the time instead of looking at your bandmates....at least until you develop your ear. If you go this route, work with your tuner to develop your ear and you won't have any troubles! Good luck!
 
Having played both stand up bass and electric bass with frets, I have to believe a short scale fretless bass would be a real challenge. Dick's suggestion of the dots as side markers would certainly help.

Bill
 
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